Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: aenima on September 19, 2013, 09:00:41 AM
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hi all... I'm new here :)
and I have 2 quesions!
1- what appned when in a same tourn a player put a tile that close his city with his builder and making point he drow a dispatch tile with wich he can replay? can he play 3 times?
2- according with the CAR, builders and pigs are not follower... but what appned when the plague is in play? are they kill by the plague as normal follower?
thanx!
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Hi aenima, welcome to the site. I'm new here too. :)
Let's see...
1) As far as I know, yes, you can play three times in that situation.
2) And yes, they're all "killed". Not the barn though I don't think.
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That second one makes me thoughtful though. Does the plague "kill" pieces like the fairy or the dragon or the witch?
Anybody know? I've only used the Plague with the base game, no other expansions.
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According to CAR "the plague does not affect the dragon or other neutral figures".
(The fairy and the witch are also neutral figures.)
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ok, thanx...
yes, the CAR said so, but plague's rules said "any follower are killed" and for the CAR, pigs and builder are not follower... :/
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I've always thought of the builder as a follower, though if there's an official ruling I haven't honestly read it.
And thanks Leven for the clarification.
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hi all... I'm new here :)
and I have 2 quesions!
1- what appned when in a same tourn a player put a tile that close his city with his builder and making point he drow a dispatch tile with wich he can replay? can he play 3 times?
Hi aenima,
welcome to CarcC.
With your first question, we should have a clear answer for you.
Here comes the same problem with the builder and the messages (dispatches).
I am not sure what you meant with "...can he play 3 times?" - perhaps you meant the action of the dispatch. Please look at this example and the explanation:
Clarification of rules - Call with HiG - 14 01 2013 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=64.0)
The Builder and the Dispatches:
Question 2:
When I finish, for example, a city with a builder, and the counting follower lands on a dark number field, is only then the dispatch to the use (and possibly even more dispatches at favorable scoring) and then the turn because of the builder of the second tile?
In other words:
Which of the rules
A (dispatch): ?The active player (and only that player) gets a Dispatch tile if one of his two counting followers lands on a dark number field (0, 5, 10, 15,...).?
B (builder): ?On the next turn or a later turn, whenever the player places a tile that extends the road or city (with the builder), he then immediately draws a second tile and places it (this is the double turn and can only be performed once).?
takes precedence?
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Answer to Question 2: Builder - double turn - Dispatch
The BigBox4 says the following about the double turn by builders:
Whenever a player places a tile that extends the road or city which includes his builder, he may take a double turn. Here, after performing the usual steps of deployment and scoring, the player draws another land tile, places it appropriately, and may then deploy another follower and carry out any necessary scoring. Then his turn ends.
BigBox4 has the following comment about the dispatches:
For each scoring round, the player gets only one dispatch ....
From the builder you have two scoring rounds.
If after the first scoring round a scoring figure of the active player lands on a dark field, he receives a dispatch. The active player performs the action of the dispatch.
Only then does the double turn happen.
As a more practical example, the player should first draw the second tile of the double turn immediately after the first scoring round, place the tile face down in his supply, then perform the dispatches-action, then turn over the face-down tile and place it. Then move wood and perform scoring. If the scoring figure is on a dark field again, the player again obtains a dispatch and performs its action.
Anyhow, that is it what I'm reading by the rules - so far, the question is not asked, so I still have not inquired further (at HiG)
obervet03 helped me with the translation
Now it is official (telephone call with HiG- Georg Wild)
There are two scoring rounds through the double turn with the builder. After each scoring round you can get a dispatch and then perform the dispatches action. In this case are two Dispatches possible.
If you play with the fairy. Then you can get after scoring the 1 point for the fairy a Dispatch and can perform the dispatch action.
I like more the name Dispatches than Messages. The name dispatch is near the German word (Depesche) than message (Nachricht).
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I've always thought of the builder as a follower, though if there's an official ruling I haven't honestly read it.
And thanks Leven for the clarification.
Builders and pigs are not followers, these figures are special figures for each player.
You can find the clarification of figures in the rules of the BigBoxes, also you can find the game figures in the S-CAR 6.3 - page 156:
- follower
- special figure
- neutral figure
2- according with the CAR, builders and pigs are not follower... but what appned when the plague is in play? are they kill by the plague as normal follower?
thanx!
The plague and the builder / pig:
example 1:
The follower (as a thief) stands together with the builder on a road. Then the plague lands on the same tile where the follower stands.
The follower goes back to that players supply. If the player has no more followers on the same road, the builder goes also back to that players supply, because the builder can't stand alone on the road.
The same is with the follower (as a knight) and builder in a city. Also the same is with the follower (as a farmer) on a field and the pig.
example 2:
The follower (as a thief) stands together with the builder on a road. Then the plague lands on the same tile where the builder stands.
Does the builder go back to that players supply?
We never got any answer from Spielbox. I hope that I will get this year an answer at Spiel 2013 in Essen.
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2) And yes, they're all "killed". Not the barn though I don't think.
The plague and the barn:
The barn is a special figure.
The plague affects the whole tile.
The problem here is following: The barn stands between 4 tiles.
The question here is:
Does the plague affect the barn although the barn doesn't stand on a whole tile?
I prefer the answer: NO, because the barn is not on a specific tile - it's beween 4 tiles.
I never get an answer from Spielbox - perhaps this year at Spiel 2013 in Essen.
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hi all... I'm new here :)
and I have 2 quesions!
1- what appned when in a same tourn a player put a tile that close his city with his builder and making point he drow a dispatch tile with wich he can replay? can he play 3 times?
Hi aenima,
welcome to CarcC.
With your first question, we should have a clear answer for you.
Here comes the same problem with the builder and the messages (dispatches).
I am not sure what you meant with "...can he play 3 times?"
excurse - example:
the new placed tile is extending the city with the builder in it (the city is still not closed) and is closing a road where you have also a follwer in it. You receive a message / dispatch.
In this case the message / dispatch No. 7.
Really interesting is this case if you draw the dispatch / message No 7.
This is the action of the message /dispatch No 7:
There you can draw and place another tile and place a figure if you like.
In this example the new placed tile extended the city with the builder in it and maybe a next possible double turn take place? That is a great question...
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well... according with what is write on the big box rules I suppose that:
1) place a tile that close my city with my builder;
2) put my follower and the builder in my supply;
3) thake my point that bring my follower on the scoreboard on the black
4) thake the dispatch (it is the 7th "one tile") and perform it immediately so:
4a) drow a tile and play it normally
4b) finish my "one tile" tourn
5) drow the tile from the builder's effect in point 1)
I think this is the correct way to play... aaaand ahahah I smile because meanwhile I was writing I was thinking another thing:
what happen if in point 4a) I put in play the builder and in point 5) I put a tile on the builder's element?
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2- according with the CAR, builders and pigs are not follower... but what appned when the plague is in play? are they kill by the plague as normal follower?
thanx!
The plague and the builder / pig:
example 1:
The follower (as a thief) stands together with the builder on a road. Then the plague lands on the same tile where the follower stands.
The follower goes back to that players supply. If the player has no more followers on the same road, the builder goes also back to that players supply, because the builder can't stand alone on the road.
The same is with the follower (as a knight) and builder in a city. Also the same is with the follower (as a farmer) on a field and the pig.
example 2:
The follower (as a thief) stands together with the builder on a road. Then the plague lands on the same tile where the builder stands.
Does the builder go back to that players supply?
We never got any answer from Spielbox. I hope that I will get this year an answer at Spiel 2013 in Essen.
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so... is not specified if pigs and builder are killed by the plague :-\
but I think yes... the builder figure is still an human!
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Yes I see it - please don't use special symbols.
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ok... Reply #10 is change...
read it because is interesting! ;)
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damn... I forgot another question...
playing the plague with builders and messengers can I put or move the flea tokens every time I play (with the builder's replay or with "one tile" dispach's replay) or just one time?
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kettlefish
Builders and pigs are not followers
See, okay though, but that's not what it says in the rules that came with Traders and Builders. So I'm confused. Right near the top it states in Contents:
- 12 new followers in 6 colors (1 pig and 1 builder for each player)
And then later in the rules they call builders and pigs followers again:
"The pigs and builders are treated similarly to the normal followers. They must be placed on a just-placed tile. No other follower may be placed on that tile."
So according to the rules I have, while yes of course they are "special" followers, they are still followers.
Here's a link to a pdf of the rules I have:
http://upsilon.cc/~zack/teaching/1011/gla/carcassonne/traders-builders.pdf (http://upsilon.cc/~zack/teaching/1011/gla/carcassonne/traders-builders.pdf)
Are these rules wrong? If so can you provide a pdf to newer rules that directly prove this? It would really help my games to have them. Thanks!
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the link u posted is invalid...
however, on the CAR u can find the answer
u can find the CAR here
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=198
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Why put up a link to the CAR at boardgamegeek.
The CAR is right here at CarcC
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changed
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The link works fine now. Again, here's a link:
http://upsilon.cc/~zack/teaching/1011/gla/carcassonne/traders-builders.pdf (http://upsilon.cc/~zack/teaching/1011/gla/carcassonne/traders-builders.pdf)
It says pigs and builders are followers, plainly.
But I see in this CAR it states that in the Big Box rules:
"they are no long considered to be followers".
So they changed it. That explains it.
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so? noone can answer my questions?
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aenima,
the rules are not clear enough - there are more than one possible answers.
I have in some weeks the meeting with HiG - Georg Wild - at Spiel 2013 in Essen.
I have to discuss with him about the rules and together we decide what will be the best answer.
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ok :) I wait!
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Hey, I completely forgot this, sorry, but did you guys know that the Plague is designed to be used with just the base game, right?
The official rules from Spielbox:
http://www.spielbox-magazin.de/pdf/CCS_diepest_en.pdf (http://www.spielbox-magazin.de/pdf/CCS_diepest_en.pdf)
Here's where they say it:
Preperation
Place the starting tile face up. From the 71 landscape tiles of the base game count off 17 and shuffle them. These tiles must be drawn first. Add the 6 new Plague tiles to the rest of the tiles and shuffle them, too.
See? You're only supposed to use Plague with the original 71 tiles, no more, and no special meeples like the builder, pig, barn or whatever.
That's how I've always played Plague, just with the base game. If you start adding in other expansions you'd ruin the game, IMO. The effectiveness of the Plague tiles would be diluted, destroyed even, with any extra tiles, right? There are only 6 of them and only 18 pest tokens.
So there's your answer for the pig, barn, builder, etc. Don't use them when you play Plague because you're not supposed to?
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I do not agree... the rules said that, but u are always able to change and combine what u want with carcassonne...
and I can tell u that a game with inns & cathedral, trader and builder + the plague was a great game.
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I'm just going by what the official Spielbox rules say, "From the 71 landscape tiles of the base game". To me this more than suggests it's designed as a stand-alone expansion just for use with the base game.
That's the point I'm trying to make, that the reason the Plague doesn't seem to work with other expansions is possibly because it was never designed to be used with other expansions. And the official rules seem to back this up.
I've certainly had great fun playing it that way, it's a really cut-throat game of Carc for 2-3 people. I wouldn't want to add any more tiles than the 78 to it, keep it deadly, heh!
As the song goes, "Nowhere to run to, baby, nowhere to hide!" ;D
If you want to use it with other expansions go for it, have all the fun you like of course and I'm sure the publisher might already have or be coming up with rules for other expansion issues. But "officially" it seems to me it was designed only for use with the base game, which is why rules for other expansions might be lacking.
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The Plague was only designed to be played with the base game, but that doesn't necessarily mean it won't work with other expansions, just that it was not tested with other expansions. I see this as more of an opportunity to experiment and figure out what works and what needs to be tweaked.
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Well put.
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The Plague was only designed to be played with the base game, but that doesn't necessarily mean it won't work with other expansions, just that it was not tested with other expansions. I see this as more of an opportunity to experiment and figure out what works and what needs to be tweaked.
Was any expansion tested with any other? The only exception I can think of is the two (?) tiles in River II which use rules from other expansions. The reason behind the CAR is largley the fact that expansions are all just designed to be played with the base game.
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This all reminds me of a text that is in the rulebook of the Swedish version of Dungeon Quest (I think it's called that). Swedish name of the game is Drakborgen from 1985 or so.
In the rulebook they've input a note that these rules are merely to establish a baseline and they encourage players to set up their own rules on what would work for them and wish us all a lot of fun.
Not sure why, but I felt like sharing this. :meeple:
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The Plague was only designed to be played with the base game, but that doesn't necessarily mean it won't work with other expansions, just that it was not tested with other expansions. I see this as more of an opportunity to experiment and figure out what works and what needs to be tweaked.
Was any expansion tested with any other? The only exception I can think of is the two (?) tiles in River II which use rules from other expansions. The reason behind the CAR is largley the fact that expansions are all just designed to be played with the base game.
The minis from Spielbox -
The people from Spielbox are testing only with the base game of Carcassonne.
expansions from HiG:
The people from HiG (and their playing team) are testing with the base game of Carcassonne and some of the expansions. I don't know if they always play Mega-Carc...
All two years (since 2006) we get a new BigBox with some more clarifications of rules.
published expansions by licence partner like RGG:
The translation of the German rule into English is sometimes not correct...
For example the change of the scoring for the farmers:
- in German the rule changed some years before RGG follows that new rule.
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hellooo!!!
so... much time has passed and I'm very curious to know if I can get an answer to my replay 10 and replay 14
kettlefish... have u got the possibility to speak abaut that?
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hellooo!!!
so... much time has passed and I'm very curious to know if I can get an answer to my replay 10 and replay 14
kettlefish... have u got the possibility to speak abaut that?
aenima,
I came home very late yesterday.
When I have finished my report of the result with the clarification of rules (and translation into English) then you will get an answer, but your way is not fine for me.
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sorry but... what have I done? ???
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damn... I forgot another question...
playing the plague with builders and messengers can I put or move the flea tokens every time I play (with the builder's replay or with "one tile" dispach's replay) or just one time?
As always I've got no clear answer from Spielbox...
So this question is still open.
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ok... anyway... I think we can do it because with builter and messenger we have another real turn...
anyway... for the other question?
anyway... i'm sorry fi I use some disturbing tone...
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ok... anyway... I think we can do it because with builter and messenger we have another real turn...
anyway... for the other question?
anyway... i'm sorry fi I use some disturbing tone...
My opinion obviously isn't official, but I would argue that the flea tokens do NOT get a second placement on the builder's "double turn," as the official interpretation from HiG is that the "double turn" really only represents two different phases of one turn (see S-CAR v6.3, fn 56, p31). Since the active player decides when during his or her turn the flea token will be played, it seems that it could be played after the placement of the second tile, but that only one can be played over the span of the entire turn.
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mmm... I see... mmm good interpretation! :(y)