Carc Tactics - Farms - When do you start your first one?

[Paul]

Steering off topic. Oopsie. 

  More details about my collection will be posted in my own Meet the Members section hopefully next week, with photos. But it's definately over 600, not including starter tiles, river tiles, city Carcassonne tiles etc.

 

[Scott]

In the games that I've played, farms tended to get very large, so in the group that I played with it was important to get a farmer down early or there might not be any empty farms of decent size later. We were putting farmers down while placing the river. It usually paid off, but there's some risk. I only play one farmer in this way; I look at placing more farmers later when cities have been established.

[danisthirty]

I will usually wait to see how my opponent(s) react(s) with regard to farms. If a farm is serving at least three cities (in a 72-tile game) I'll often consider taking the plunge but obviously there are other factors too such as whether I want to keep a few meeples back or how easy it will be to place subsequent farmers. On the other hand, it's a pain when farming-wars break out as I've played games where both my opponent and I have managed to get 7 meeples each onto the same farm. Not much point in continuing after that!

My tactics can really change for larger games depending on which expansions are used. Megameeples tend to be farmers fairly often and Barns make a huge difference too.

In general I don't think it's a good idea to place a farmer very early on because you reduce your scoring potential too much by having one less meeple than your opponents. If I get the tile with four individual city segments on it though (Inns & Cathedrals) I almost always drop a farmer in the middle and try to complete four separate cities around it for 12 points.

[jungleboy]

If I get the tile with four individual city segments on it though (Inns & Cathedrals) I almost always drop a farmer in the middle and try to complete four separate cities around it for 12 points.

I LOVE doing this because I think it just looks so cool, and it's funny to imagine a real life farmer with this tiny patch of grass supplying four different cities, as though they all really depend on him for their food supply. Also, obviously, no one else can steal your farm. But if it's early in the game, and you're playing with a lot of tiles, the 12-point maximum seems a bit low of a return for one meeple that you won't get back. So sometimes I am forced to forego this farm even though in my heart I always want to take it

[rfielder]

In the games that I've played, farms tended to get very large, so in the group that I played with it was important to get a farmer down early

Scott - what expansions are you playing with, for games like this?

We are finding that farms seldom get too large for us.  It seems like the number of roads has drastically increased, so the play space is broken up a lot.

Also, any farmer anywhere close to the edge of the board is a prime target for a tower capture.

[rfielder]

If I get the tile with four individual city segments on it though (Inns & Cathedrals) I almost always drop a farmer in the middle and try to complete four separate cities around it for 12 points.

Agreed.  However, I seldom see this one make it to the end of the game - a perfect opportunity for a Tower capture.

I think we have all modified our strategies according to how the game plays, which is modified by the expansions in use.

If you have neither the Dragon or the Towers in play, grabbing the farms early makes a lot more sense.

[danisthirty]

Maybe it's just me but in 2-player games I find it actually quite difficult to steer the Dragon towards anything in particular as my opponent will usually be trying just as hard to steer it away and we both get an equal say in where it goes. This often means it gets stuck in a dead end since! With 3 or more players though, the effect of the Dragon is much more powerful and if one player has a meeple in a particularly strong position early on they can expect to lose it by the end of the game. Personally, I think this goes against the spirit of the game somewhat, but it doesn't necessarily spoil the fun as long as the game isn't being taken *too* seriously.

The tower however is a very different story, hence why it doesn't get played in my house very often!

[coyote]

True! In Megacarc the sky is the limit! 

Wouldn't that be your table (or floor) size?

[rfielder]

Maybe it's just me but in 2-player games I find it actually quite difficult to steer the Dragon towards anything in particular

Agreed.  At the very start of the game (we have River II, which means the dragon is there from the start), or playing it well with a volcano tile, will make it effective.  Otherwise, risk is lower than one would expect in a two player game.

With a four player game, it is fun to see the gleam of destruction in the player's eyes as the dragon moves! 

Personally, I think this goes against the spirit of the game somewhat, but it doesn't necessarily spoil the fun as long as the game isn't being taken *too* seriously.

This, I do not understand....

The tower however is a very different story, hence why it doesn't get played in my house very often!

The Tower really changes the game.  We have it in the bag with all the other tiles, and use it every time.  We didn't care for it the first time we played with The Tower at a friend's place.  Played a second game that weekend, understood it better, and purchased the expansion on the way home that weekend!

With a two player game, each player gets 10 Tower pieces.  The game last night saw my partner with only one tower piece left about 2/3 of the way through the game.  I finished with 6 or 7 pieces unused.  Other games, it is very different.  One thing for sure - the Tower makes portals a LOT more useful!

[danisthirty]

Carcassonne is a great game for lots of different reasons. One of those reasons is the number of expansions available for it and how these can be used to cater for individual tastes or to bias the game in favour of/ against certain types of tactics. As fun as the majority of these are, and despite owning (almost) all of them, I'm frequently finding myself now coming back to just the basic tiles as there's a certain elegant simplicity about it which is easily forgotten when you have to think about all the complications introduced by any expansions that have been included, along with the different types of meeples that come with them. 72-tile games are a lot shorter too!

In my opinion, certain expansions seem to change the rules of the game so much so that the underlying rules of Carcassonne become far less relevant than they should be. I'm not saying this spoils the fun and I'm actually a big fan of The Princess and the Dragon despite what I've written here. But the luck factor becomes too significant for me to consider games including it to be taken particularly seriously.

Admittedly I've only played three or four games with The Tower but on balance I've always felt that the mechanics of the towers have taken more away from the game than they've added to it. I certainly wouldn't turn down a game against someone who wanted to include it but I wouldn't beta myself up too much about it if I lost...

[jungleboy]

There's lots of great discussion in this thread! Here are some of my thoughts.

Maybe it's just me but in 2-player games I find it actually quite difficult to steer the Dragon towards anything in particular as my opponent will usually be trying just as hard to steer it away and we both get an equal say in where it goes.

This is absolutely true. Unfortunately I usually play only two-player games and I've never played the dragon with more than two people. I can't wait to play it with more people to see what kind of damage the dragon can do.

In the games that I've played, farms tended to get very large, so in the group that I played with it was important to get a farmer down early

Scott - what expansions are you playing with, for games like this?

Another thing to take into account here is that players can (artificially) increase the size of farms, which I do if I have control of it and/or back myself to win it. Some ways to do this are by creating loop roads as mentioned upthread, using the FFRF title with a cloister, and using the rare FFCR tiles and then making that city a two-tile city.

Admittedly I've only played three or four games with The Tower but on balance I've always felt that the mechanics of the towers have taken more away from the game than they've added to it.

I've played with the tower three or four times as well and I like it more and more each time I play it. A couple of days ago I played a two-player game with the tower and traders and builders, and I lost to someone I usually beat because she played the towers better than me and managed to hold on to the biggest farm because I was unable to use a tower to kidnap her meeple. Using the tower adds some really great layers of complexity that add to the strategy experience for me.

[Carcking]

Starting Farms early when playing with the Tower just sets up some easy marks. It's very difficult to have a farmer survive in the early going.

It's an enjoyable challenge during mid-game and later on to try to get your Farmer in where he's out of line of sight of any of the towers. The same holds for major cities.

[danisthirty]

I guess the trick is to try and place tiles around any key meeples so that a tower foundation can't be placed next to it and immediately capture him. If you don't do this then regardless of how carefully you avoid the towers already in play there's always a chance you could still lose something you'd rather have kept...

[quevy]

I thought I had replied but I can not see my comment.
Within the first 20 tiles, but it depends very much on the game and those who play against.
At the end I try not occupied areas to increase your score.

[Scott]

Scott - what expansions are you playing with, for games like this?

We are finding that farms seldom get too large for us.  It seems like the number of roads has drastically increased, so the play space is broken up a lot.

Also, any farmer anywhere close to the edge of the board is a prime target for a tower capture.

We played River, GQ11, I&C, T&B, and King. We tried P&D, Count, and Tower once each, but none of them were well-received. Never got a chance to play any other expansions because the group folded as people moved on with their lives. (GQ11 sometimes helps keep farms under control.)