This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
Messages - NGC 54
Pages: 1 ... 20 21 [22] 23 24 ... 36
316
« on: February 09, 2021, 06:02:20 AM »
Yesterday I had a long monologue with HiG on Discord after the issue with the scoring events during the turn sequence showed up again...
* I included in my posts a long explanation on how the shepherd actions in Exp.9 should be interpreted from reading the rules in English and German and from the Turn Sequence in Big Box 5, where the shepherd actions are included in Phase 2.
* I also showed them how misleading the rules for the abbot are, and also cross referenced them to the Turn Summary in Big Box 6 that shows the abbot removal happening in Phase 2.
* Additionally, I showed them how confusing the rules about the dragon are in Exp. 3 (volcano and dragon tiles) and demonstrated that Step 1b should be Step 2b accoring the German wording of the rules and the Turn Sequence in Big Box 3.
As per today's reply, it seems that the HiG team are going to sit down and discuss all these dark spots in the rules in order to decide what clarifications are needed. I cross my fingers... 
No news?
317
« on: February 07, 2021, 05:16:51 PM »
How many points does the upper road scores?
318
« on: February 07, 2021, 01:25:40 PM »
- Yellow watchtower is worth 5 points, considering every meeple on the german castle tile
10 points.
WikiCarpedia should describe all these cases on a dedicated page, and marking these examples with IconPadlock (see https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Icons and https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Template:IconPadlock).
I think that this is the most neutral an correct variant for WICA. These interactions with other examples are a paradox. Options A, B, modified A, modified B or any other options, without an official clarification, are just semi-vague assumptions.
319
« on: February 07, 2021, 12:10:14 PM »
Here is my example based on Carcassonne93's question (finally)... so the feature with watchtowers are completed and ready for watchtower scoring.
1) Red completes a 2-tile road, triggering a watchtower scoring.
Red would score 2 points for the watchtower:
- 1 point for the watchtower tile (it features a city segment)
- 1 point for the adjacent Leipzig tile (it features a city segment)
2) Blue completes a 2-tile city occupied by Blue and a 2-tile road occupied by Yellow. Each feature triggers one watchtower scoring.
Blue would score 4 points for the watchtower on the completed road:
- 1 point for the watchtower tile with the Blue meeple (it features one city segment)
- 1 point for the watchtower tile with the Yellow (it features one city segment)
- 1 point for the Lepzig tile with the Wainwrights quarter (it features two city segments)
- 1 point for the Lepzig tile with the Tanners quarter (it features one city segment)
Blue would also score 4 points for the completed 2-tile city.
Yellow would score 3 points for the watchtower on the completed road:
- 1 point for the watchtower tile with the Yellow (it features one road segment)
- 1 point for the watchtower tile with the Blue meeple (it features one road segment)
- 1 point for the Leipzig tile with the Tanners quarter (it features one road segment)
Yellow would also score 2 points for the completed 2-tile road.
If it is used this rationale, the monasteries could still score 8 or 7 points when are completed. "The rule does apply, therefore you still score only 1 point. But for every other scoring, it is considered as 2 tiles (German monasteries, dragons etc.)"
320
« on: February 07, 2021, 11:26:08 AM »
"The rule does apply, therefore you still score only 1 point.
But for every other scoring, it is considered as 2 tiles (German monasteries, dragons etc.)"
"But for every other scoring"
"WICA: When scoring a monastery adjacent to one or more double-sized tiles, the monastery will consider the occupied square spaces (areas) adjacent to it. An double-sized tile adjacent to a monastery may then occupy 1 or 2 spaces. As a result a completed monastery will always score 9 points and an incomplete monastery will score 1 point for space occupied the monastery and 1 point per adjacent occupied space.
Note: The same considerations should be applied when removing and scoring an abbot, and the scoring of all other monastic buildings: abbeys, shrines, German monasteries / Japanese Buildings / Dutch & Belgian monasteries with monks, Darmstadt churches."
Until HiG will provide clarifications for all cases (probably never or after some years), the player should choose the variant that considers valid.
"But for every other scoring" should include also watchtowers. The road segment from a Leipzig tile should be also considered once by inns, mage, German cathedrals, Wainwrights quarter.
321
« on: February 07, 2021, 11:25:24 AM »
Yep... Your proposal was my next stop. I hadn't forgotten. 
However, you may need to fine tune it a bit, since the road on a Leipzig tile is not considered two tiles for scoring but one tile. This is a "hidden" edge case, since there are no double-sized tiles with 2 city segments, just this odd case for roads.
Before tuning my wording option, we have to chose how to consider the situations below 
As soon as I saw this clarification I also started to think how would a road segment on Leipzig tile interact with an adjacent watchtower scoring for roads...
We have one tile with one road segment scoring as one road segment but occupying two square spaces. The watchtower should consider adjacent spaces with roads...
A) Should the road segment on the Leipzig tile be considered for each adjacent space?
B) Or should the road segment on the Leipzig tile be considered only once because the tile should be considered once?
Option A) seems odd. You would be scoring for the same tile twice.
Regarding option B), ir considers the road on the Leipzig tile would be considered only once. It would be similar to scoring a road with this road segment: it would be considered only once even if it spans across two squares, right?
Any thoughts?
For Leipzig's roads, I think we could say the road is considered to be only on the external square space, for any action and evaluation? That'd be easy to explain and understand, consistent for any expansion combination.
How many points does this watchtower scores? (Ignore the fact that the small city with the red meeple is incomplete).
The question is, with double tiles, how deep do we consider the whole double tile is affected by mechanics ?
Have a look at those situations (there's no farmer, the meeples have been laid down to make them easier to see):
Based on WICA, we already know that:
- When placing the tower piece, range counting ends on a space of the double tile, so we may remove a meeple from both parts
- Blue, having 1 on the dice, ends on a part of the double tile, so blue may place his meeple anywhere on the two parts of the double tile (except the completed road
Then, I think we should use a single mechanic for watchtowers, wagons, castles and ringmaster range. The question is how...
Option A: We consider the spaces, considering a German Castle is on both spaces of the tile, but other features are on a single space (even Leipzig's road, on the external space only)
- Pink wagon may move on the german castle or the two road segments on the left space, but not on the city or road on the right
- Same would happen with the castle with pink ringmaster, completition of the castle or the two road segments on the left space would trigger the castle's scoring, but not the city or road on the right
- Watchtower under the pink ringmaster, if scored, wouldn't get any points for the city on the german castle tile
- Once completed, blue wagon may move on the 12 surrounding spaces as he is on the german castle, but violet wagon may only move on 9 tiles surrounding the space he's on
- Violet ringmaster is not considering the circus tile
- Yellow watchtower is worth 3 points, considering yellow meeple, violet phantom, and blue wagon, not the ringmaster or violet wagon
- Blue watchtower is worth 2 points for the roads on the german castle tiles, and one for each road on Leipzig's tiles, and one for the watchtower tile, 5 in total
- Watchtower with pink meeple is worth 4 points, without counting Leipzig's city segment, but counting both of black city segments
- Black's watchtower is worth 5 points
Option B: We consider the whole double tile
- Pink wagon may move anywhere on the german castle tiles
- Same would happen with the castle with pink ringmaster, completition of anything on the castle tile triggers the castle's scoring
- Watchtower under the pink ringmaster, if scored, wouldn get a point for the city on the german castle tile
- Once completed, blue wagon may move on the 12 surrounding spaces as he is on the german castle, and violet wagon too
- Violet ringmaster IS considering the circus tile (the 12 surrounding tiles)
- Yellow watchtower is worth 5 points, considering every meeple on the german castle tile
- Blue watchtower is worth 1 point for the german castle tile containing roads, 4 in total (this is odd, I thought, green option: we could still consider both spaces for scoring and so it's 5 total points, but then the two following examples would be complicated)
- Watchtower with pink meeple is 4 points, considering Leipzig once (or it's considering the whole tile, with two spaces having a city segment, making it worth 5 points, but this means a watchtower could get more than 9 points)
- Black's watchtower is worth 4 points, considering Leipzig once (or it's considering the two spaces having a city segment, making it worth 5 points)
I prefer option A, it seems simplier to apply and understand, even if this means a meeple on a german castle is considered to be on two spaces and other meeples on a german castle tile are considered to be on a single space.
Option B brings more questions: Black or green rules? Both black and green options makes some odd situations, and the green ones are too complicated to understand and explain...
What do you think?
I don't like option A at all...
I would choose option B with the green rules. That seems to be consequent with the rules of dragon movement and occupied spaces in general. You always consider spaces around the tile: normally 9, 12 for German castles and 6 for castles. If one of the spaces contains a double tile that extends that surrounding space to the outside, that part of the double tile is considered too.
Option A is consistent with dragon movement, but not with dragon's eating. Option B is consistent with dragon's eating, but not with dragon movement.
322
« on: February 07, 2021, 11:21:28 AM »
"The rule does apply, therefore you still score only 1 point.
But for every other scoring, it is considered as 2 tiles (German monasteries, dragons etc.)"
"But for every other scoring"
"WICA: When scoring a monastery adjacent to one or more double-sized tiles, the monastery will consider the occupied square spaces (areas) adjacent to it. An double-sized tile adjacent to a monastery may then occupy 1 or 2 spaces. As a result a completed monastery will always score 9 points and an incomplete monastery will score 1 point for space occupied the monastery and 1 point per adjacent occupied space.
Note: The same considerations should be applied when removing and scoring an abbot, and the scoring of all other monastic buildings: abbeys, shrines, German monasteries / Japanese Buildings / Dutch & Belgian monasteries with monks, Darmstadt churches."
Until HiG will provide clarifications for all cases (probably never or after some years), the player should choose the variant that considers valid.
324
« on: February 07, 2021, 07:42:29 AM »
How many points does this watchtower scores? (Ignore the fact that the small city with the red meeple is incomplete).
325
« on: February 07, 2021, 07:39:05 AM »
But in the case of Wainwrights quarter and Bookbinders quarter, the "1 points for each tile with city" watchtower should receive 2 points.
326
« on: February 05, 2021, 12:45:28 PM »
I think that WikiCarpedia should describe interactions with 1. double tiles and halflings and 2. flying machines, bathhouses, ringmaster bonuses, dragon, towers, watchtowers, plague, special monasteries, gold ingots, castles, German castles, acrobats, circus and barns on a page named "Special-sized tiles".
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Castles_in_Germany#Other_expansions: WikiCarpedia should describe all these cases with images. I would appreciate an official clarification about wagons placed on a road from a German castle tile.
327
« on: February 02, 2021, 02:34:52 PM »
328
« on: February 01, 2021, 06:46:43 PM »
"This is a combination of expansion 3 and a mini, therefore not answered. Again a special combination that we can't consider."
I do not understand. This answer is longer than a "Yes" or "No".
My understanding:
Messages considers only 1A-3C or only 3B-3C; the message(s) is/are triggered at the end of step 3 ("You will get messages in each Step 3") (in all cases, only positive points, the last movement of the scoring meeple or messenger).
Robbers consider 1A-4A and only positive points.
Sending a meeple in Carcassonne considers only 3B-3C or only 1C-3C (per "you cannot receive any points after placing
a tile, no matter if it is a feature being scored o any bonus (shepherd, 3-point for the fairy, ringmaster)").
(Robbers are bundled in 1A-4A)
(Prisoner ransom can happen anytime)
1A: Fairy point
1B: WoF points, Peasant Revolt points
1C. Wind rose points
2B-1: Removal of acrobats or abbots (no points; confuse, per "But artists (acrobats) are scored in Step 2?"
"You trigger it in Step 2, but still get the points in step 3"
"About removing and scoring the abbot: "This scoring occurs immediately during the 2. Placing a meeple
phase when the abbot is removed. This effectively protects the abbot from the dragon and produces a scoring round for Messages. Afterwards, the normal scoring phase occurs. (3/2015)")
2C. Fruit points, shepherd points (but it is unsure if they are placed here or in 3B; printed rules seem to say 2C, but here it is mentioned that Carcassonne considers all points from step 3, that Carcassonne also considers shepherd points and "in order to send a meeple to Carcassonne you cannot receive any points after placing a tile"; also "This is a combination of expansion 3 and a mini, therefore not answered. Again a special combination that we can't consider.")
3B:
Bonus scoring (pre): Watchtower, Tollhouse
Feature scoring: City, Road, Monastery, Castle, etc.
Bonus scoring (post): Markets of Leipzig, Fairy 3 points, Ringmaster points, Teacher, Darmstadt Church bonus
Abbot points (if removed in 2B-1; confuse), Acrobat points (if removed in 2B-1; confuse)
3C: Circus scoring
After 3C; before 4A: Messages
I want to find out Klaus-Jürgen Wrede's (the creator of Base Game and more), kettlefish's (who presented on CarcassonneCentral a lot of official clarifications from Georg Wild) and Georg Wild's (whose previous official clarifications on this topic are now contradicted by Johannes) opinions about these clarifications (although probably is "nearly impossible").
329
« on: February 01, 2021, 05:57:58 AM »
I think that shepherd scoring still occurs in 2C. Johannes only said that the shepherd scoring is considered if you want to send a meeple in Carcassonne. So, if you want to send a meeple in Carcassonne, you consider all points received in 1C-3C.
330
« on: February 01, 2021, 05:46:43 AM »
Pages: 1 ... 20 21 [22] 23 24 ... 36
|
Show Posts