Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => General => Topic started by: TheSteveAllen on May 03, 2017, 10:16:44 AM
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I hope that I am not necroposting here, but I would be very interested to know what expansions of Carcassonne work well together. I play virtually every day with the tiles in various combinations, and I have found that some of the expansions complement each other quite well and lead to a game which is even better than the sum of the parts. Recently we have been playing The CII base game with the abbot, the river, Inns and Cathederals, The Abbey and Mayor and The Watchtowers, and this really appears to be a satisfying combination that produces close and interesting games. I have also tried other combinations which do not work so well together. I would very much like to try out the Bridges, Castles and Bazaars with the tunnels, as this gives an almost 3D aspect to the game, especially if we were to include the fan expansion of tunnels 2.
If anyone has a favourite set of expansions that they know complement each other, I, for one, would like to try it out.
By way of illustration of what I mean, I have added this recent photo showing the finished board with lots of cities, roads, farms and other features evenly distributed. This, for me, is preferably to games which end up fighting over a large city or a single large farm. Here, everyone has a chance to win several little "battles", which is what makes the game both interesting and addictive.
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I will start a simulated mega-carc with over 150 different expansions, you will see some picture of the progress of the game soon. :black1-meeple:
Of course, some will be impossible to play together.
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I will start a simulated mega-carc with over 150 different expansions, you will see some picture of the progress of the game soon. :black1-meeple:
Of course, some will be impossible to play together.
Although I think that I would find this fun, I am thinking of combinations that make up a good entertaining game for about 2 to 3 hours, with about 150 to 200 tiles, where the rules of the expansions work well together. A good example of what I mean is the use of the Count of Carcassonne with Traders and Builders, where closing someone else's city is rewarded in 2 ways.
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I don't have time to reply in full right now - but wanted to say: great idea for a topic Steve. I don't think we've had a topic like this for quite some time and there have been a few additions to the Carcassonne family since then. So +1 merit from me for coming up with the idea! :(y) :(y)
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A good example of what I mean is the use of the Count of Carcassonne with Traders and Builders, where closing someone else's city is rewarded in 2 ways.
I have made some impassioned pleas around here about playing the Count with certain expansions to allow it to thrive. Traders and Builders is one obvious example. I also think German Castles is another expansion that goes well with the Count (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1299.msg34251#msg34251):
Here are the two reasons why:
1. The count tile (and I suppose, the Wheel of Fortune tile too, for that matter) is a great way to get the German Castles out on the board right away. If you're looking to claim the castle for the potential 12 points, it makes sense to play it immediately - literally on your first turn - alongside the City of Carcassonne to give yourself a headstart on filling all the spaces needed to complete the castle. This in turn creates all sorts of interest right out of the gate, with lots of meeples on the board and bonus points available.
2. One of the problems with the Count (in my view) has always been that it's never really worth it to go into the cathedral or blacksmith quarters of the City of Carcassonne because cloisters and roads don't usually score enough points to make it a worthwhile move. But with German Castles worth 12 points as a cloister, and with the three-point bonus attached to all roads leading out of the German Castles, both of these features get a points boost and therefore become more valuable and more enticing to try to tie-up or steal via the Count mechanic.
So, in earlier posts regarding expansions that go well with the Count (which I like, even though most people don't), I focused on elements where finishing other people's features is advantageous (most obviously Traders & Builders, but also King and Robber Baron). Today's discovery is that I also think elements that boost roads and/or cloisters (e.g. German Castles, vineyards, inns) also go really well with the Count. German Monasteries might be the best of all presuming you can join one of them as an abbot at the end of the game from the cathedral quarter.
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Thank you for this detailed reply Jungleboy, I will try out the combination that you suggest tomorrow. I think that this will make a very interesting game, totally different from 'regular' Carcassonne shifting heavily the emphasis on completing features rather than just 'owning' them. I have a feeling that it will need quite a few trial runs to work out tactics, but I think that it may well be worth the effort.
Thanks too to Decar for showing his support for this topic. I am looking forward to his thoughts on this subject.
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Yesterday we played a three-player game with Princess and Dragon, Crop Circles and Labyrinths (including the extra tiles of stalcupojoy). I think this combination worked quite well, too. It made Labyrinths even more powerful. E.g. I was able to complete a Labyrinth's road structure with a crop circle tile with a "club" image on it and two of us added another thief on this road which increased the value of the labyrinth by 4 points. Moreover, I moved the fairy there, so I gained 17 points altogether. Seeing how rewarding the labyrinths are it was tempting to use magic gates to deploy a follower to an unclaimed road branch of a labyrinth.
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I often play with a few sets of expansions that seem to cohere so well that Hans im Glück designed them to interact.
For example, there is Inns & Cathedrals, Princess & Dragon, Bridges, Castles & Bazaars, and River II (BC&B includes two tiles with Inns, while the River II has a Volcano and an Inn).
There is also Hills & Sheep, River III, Halflings II, and the Corn Circles (River III and Halfings II includes Sheep, while Halflings II also includes a Corn Circle).
Functionally, The Festival and The Phantom goes well together since they makes meeples hop on and off much more rapidly.
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Good idea for a discussion TheSteveAllen! :) :(y)
I normally only play the base game but if I do include expansions and intend to create a big game I’ll often go for a combination of Inns & Cathedrals, Traders & Builders, Mage & Witch, King & Robber Baron, Besiegers and the Phantom. It doesn’t make for a huge game in terms of tiles but as a 3 or 4 player game it usually takes 2 to 3 hours to complete and provides about the right amount of different factors to keep track of (in my opinion at least).
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I can't play the base game by itself. I am always mixing various expansions.
I like adding either Magic Portals or "The Flyers" to the Plague
I like Hills and Sheep plus Traders and builders because it gets out all of the cool wooden pieces I bought.
Princess and Dragon plus Bridges and Castles works well. The dragon can't get into the castle.
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It's no secret that I'm a basegame player and don't particularly like to play very big games. For this reason I like the elegance of Inns & Cathedrals, Abbey & Mayor and Princess and Dragon. I like Princess and Dragon because new new types of tile are added to the deck. Sometimes, rather than Abbey and Mayor, I add the Festival in; but ignore the rules. The expansion allows for an opportunity to escape a trap.
I've said before: Cult & Cathars and River, always works well together too.
I've going to throw a curveball in, as we've been talking about coherent expansion like Hills & Sheep with River 1.1 and Halflings.
I think the Abbot on the new Carcassonne edition provides this very well. The problem with cloisters, is they score a lot of points, but it's relatively easy to get a meeple trapped on them. I think the abbot does a great job of devaluing cloisters, by introducing more of them, in the form of gardens. The abbot can also escape a trapped cloister, for less points which seems fair and allows for a weaker player to continue to score points, where otherwise they may be trapped and out of the game. The abbot is a worthy edition to the game and has been added coherently across the new expansions.
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A good example of what I mean is the use of the Count of Carcassonne with Traders and Builders, where closing someone else's city is rewarded in 2 ways.
I have made some impassioned pleas around here about playing the Count with certain expansions to allow it to thrive. Traders and Builders is one obvious example. I also think German Castles is another expansion that goes well with the Count (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1299.msg34251#msg34251):
Here are the two reasons why:
1. The count tile (and I suppose, the Wheel of Fortune tile too, for that matter) is a great way to get the German Castles out on the board right away. If you're looking to claim the castle for the potential 12 points, it makes sense to play it immediately - literally on your first turn - alongside the City of Carcassonne to give yourself a headstart on filling all the spaces needed to complete the castle. This in turn creates all sorts of interest right out of the gate, with lots of meeples on the board and bonus points available.
2. One of the problems with the Count (in my view) has always been that it's never really worth it to go into the cathedral or blacksmith quarters of the City of Carcassonne because cloisters and roads don't usually score enough points to make it a worthwhile move. But with German Castles worth 12 points as a cloister, and with the three-point bonus attached to all roads leading out of the German Castles, both of these features get a points boost and therefore become more valuable and more enticing to try to tie-up or steal via the Count mechanic.
So, in earlier posts regarding expansions that go well with the Count (which I like, even though most people don't), I focused on elements where finishing other people's features is advantageous (most obviously Traders & Builders, but also King and Robber Baron). Today's discovery is that I also think elements that boost roads and/or cloisters (e.g. German Castles, vineyards, inns) also go really well with the Count. German Monasteries might be the best of all presuming you can join one of them as an abbot at the end of the game from the cathedral quarter.
As promised I tried out Jungleboy's suggestion last night and it provided me with one of the most tactically interesting games of Carcassonne that I have witnessed so far. We used the base game with Inns & Cathedrals, Builders & Traders, King, Count and Robber Barron, The German Castles and the German Cathedrals.
The start of the game was based around the German castles and German Cathedrals, with both players closing each other's short roads and small cities to get meeples inside the Carcassonne city to be able to rob some of the road and cloister points that we abundant at this stage. The game developed into a battle for cities and farms, with both of us gaining lots of points for 'small battles' along the way.
The highlight for me came right at the end when, after blocking my opponent's builder (and 2 of my own meeples) in the big city, I finally got the CCRF tile that allowed me to close it. This gave me the majority of the silk, grain and wine tiles, as well as giving me the 'King' card and another 4 points added to my biggest farm. Unfortunately, my opponent brought in his big meeple from the city of Carcassonne and stole the 54 points for the city!!
I strongly recommend this set-up to everyone to try out. I am certainly going to play it again, possibly with the robbers next time, to make it even more devious! >:D
A big thumbs up :(y) and thanks to Jungleboy for the suggestion.
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2. One of the problems with the Count (in my view) has always been that it's never really worth it to go into the cathedral or blacksmith quarters of the City of Carcassonne because cloisters and roads don't usually score enough points to make it a worthwhile move. But with German Castles worth 12 points as a cloister, and with the three-point bonus attached to all roads leading out of the German Castles, both of these features get a points boost and therefore become more valuable and more enticing to try to tie-up or steal via the Count mechanic.
I have coloured the wrong part. If a meeple stands in the cathedral quater of the City of Carcassonne, then it can't placed onto the German Castle. The job of the meeple onto the German Castle is not a monk - it is the castle owner (German we say "Burgherr"). A German Castle is not a cloister.
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So Friday nights my wife and I usually play our favorite board game carcassonne but we usually do a Mega Car with about 250 Tiles. and we use all the tiles we have from all our expansions:
Base game
Inns and Cathedrals
Traders and Builders
Princess and the Dragon
The Tower
Abbey and Mayor
Japanese Temples
The Labyrinth
Watchtowers
The Festival
And we include some off the features in our old art boxes as the new art boxes have not been released:
Bridges,Castles and Bazaars
Hills and Sheep
But that said we have found that we use a certain set of base rules from certain expansions that work well for us below the rules we use from each expansion that work well and dont over complicate the game for us:
Base game -All the Rules Including starting with the River 1 and using Abbots.
Inns and Cathedrals-All the Rules
Traders and Builders-All the Rules including Pig and custom resource tokens:)
Princess and the Dragon-All the Rules
The Tower-NOTHING only the tiles
Abbey and Mayor-All the Rules including the Barn and Mayor but we use the cart as a regular follower
Japanese Temples-All the Rules
The Labyrinth- Custom 2 point rule per tile with no points if not completed at the end(Same as inns)
Watchtowers-All the Rules haha when we remember but this mechanic actually doesn't work well
The Festival - removal removal removal :)
Bridges,Castles and Bazaars- All Rules but we stay far away from the Bazaars! (Bridges original, castles subbed with custom castle figures)
Hills and Sheep- Only the shepherd, we exclude the hills and vineyards
Our game currently consist out of 243 tiles as some sets are double, and take 2 players around 3 hours to play, each player normally scoring between 400-600 points at the end.
My manege Frei and King,count and robber are on their way will post in a week or two a new version mega carc with those expansions included.
Manege Frei- Horrible game but we will use the tiles and I cannot leave my collection semi complete and use the additional follower
King count and robber- when we play our old art version we usually include, king and robber but not the count rule.
but when we include the expansion 6 we usually do this in games with 4-11 players and we start with the City or carcassonne tiles as a cool starting base and then river 1 and river 2 to start the game, count generally stands in the middle of the map looking cool:)
Cheers
Gin
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As promised I tried out Jungleboy's suggestion last night and it provided me with one of the most tactically interesting games of Carcassonne that I have witnessed so far.
Great! Glad you enjoyed it. Excellent game-end photo too!
2. One of the problems with the Count (in my view) has always been that it's never really worth it to go into the cathedral or blacksmith quarters of the City of Carcassonne because cloisters and roads don't usually score enough points to make it a worthwhile move. But with German Castles worth 12 points as a cloister, and with the three-point bonus attached to all roads leading out of the German Castles, both of these features get a points boost and therefore become more valuable and more enticing to try to tie-up or steal via the Count mechanic.
I have coloured the wrong part. If a meeple stands in the cathedral quater of the City of Carcassonne, then it can't placed onto the German Castle. The job of the meeple onto the German Castle is not a monk - it is the castle owner (German we say "Burgherr"). A German Castle is not a cloister.
I guess I'll just make a house rule then, since it makes the Count mechanics much better if cloisters are more valuable and therefore worth joining. Hills and Sheep could be another good expansion to play with the Count for the same reason, because cloisters can be worth more due to the vineyards.
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I guess I'll just make a house rule then, since it makes the Count mechanics much better if cloisters are more valuable and therefore worth joining. Hills and Sheep could be another good expansion to play with the Count for the same reason, because cloisters can be worth more due to the vineyards.
Good idea Jungleboy to adopt this as a house rule in this instance. Another House rule that I adopt for this combination is that, in a contest between a cloister and a shrine, the winner gets all the points for both features, while the loser, obviously gets zero. This means that a winning cloister or shrine is worth anything from 13 points (9 + 4 minimum for loser) up to 17 points (9 + 8 maximum for loser). Using this rule, I think that the added vineyards option would sway the Cathedral option in the City of Carcassonne a little too far, so I would avoid using the Hills & Sheep expansion.
I am thinking on giving a 'Social Interaction Game' a go tonight, featuring the following line up:-
Wheel of Fortune - Catapult - Bridges, Castles and Bazaars, 2 x Fliers, Robbers, Crop Circles 2 (the ones that I have of crop circles 2)
I am hoping that the mechanics of the catapult to remove or replace farmers will counter the inherent problem with all BCB games ending in a battle for 1 big field. Here's hoping!!
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Another House rule that I adopt for this combination is that, in a contest between a cloister and a shrine, the winner gets all the points for both features
Intriguing ... I'll have to try this. It might also be fun to encourage more of these conflicts by using both cloisters and monasteries, along with my extra shrines. Could make for a pretty swingy but fun game, and you'd need to keep an even sharper eye out for potential abbey holes.
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It might also be fun to encourage more of these conflicts by using both cloisters and monasteries, along with my extra shrines.
I would like to know from you whether or not this works out. If you stick strictly to the 'No cloister can be adjacent to 2 or more shrines or vice versa' rule, then having more than a few of each may make them very easy targets for blocking. This game mechanic works well because of the rarity of shrines, in my opinion. If they are too common, they can be used easily to block other shrines/cloisters.
Please let me know how you get on, if you try it out. I would be more than a little bit interested to try this myself.
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In my continuing quest to find expansions that complement each other well, last night we tried a combination which, I believe, makes a really good change if, like me, you get a bit fed up with fighting over control of large farms in every game. Given that the tiles in the Watchtowers expansion and the Big Top expansion work in a very similar fashion, I thought that these two together would be an interesting combination. Coupled with Traders & Builders and the River, and using the Abbott, we had a game which allowed us to concentrate on the individual mechanics of each part of each expansion, as they interacted so seamlessly. Because of all the field breaks in the tiles, the resulting landscape also had many small farms which were worth a battle in their own right at the end of the game. The mechanic of the Ringmaster, in conjunction with the mechanic of the watchtowers meant that we were picking up some pretty hefty points for some very small features if used with a bit of careful planning.
If, for example, you can land a 'Meeple Watchtower' next to a set of acrobats and a few old circus locations and use the ringmaster to complete a road or small city, that gets a big sack of points.
I have only played this combination the once as yet, but I must say that it makes for a good entertaining couple of hours with a lot of tactical variety.
In the attached photo, you can see the large number of fields that it generates. You can also see that some of them merit fighting over with farmers.
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A combination of expansions that I have tried over the last couple of days (until I ran out of table) was one which seemed to work particularly well, and I would like to know other members' thoughts on it.
I used the base game; Traders & Builders; Bridges, Castles and Bazaars; True North (my modified version from the one suggested by Just a Bill) with Leven's added tiles; The Forest (fan expansion) and The Green Dragon (fan expansion). I also used the rules to 'Timber!' but with only the 3 tiles in the Green Dragon expansion.
I never seemed to run out of meeples, as there is always a way of getting them back (using True North) and there appeared to be numerous new clever ways of scoring points. These fan made expansions are really very good if they are explored a bit more deeply.
I would recommend this combination to anyone who has a lot of time and a very big table.
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Great write up thesteveallen! Merit from me for trying so many fan-expansions together!
Happy 100th post too!
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I used the base game; Traders & Builders; Bridges, Castles and Bazaars; True North (my modified version from the one suggested by Just a Bill) with Leven's added tiles; ...
Actually the additional Wind Roses were made by Jputt927, I only added a river wind rose.