Author Topic: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX  (Read 57346 times)

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #120 on: December 29, 2020, 01:39:23 PM »
Yes I considered the tile but not the shield in that segment  :o

Yep... That's the issue.

And this segment should not be discarded as it does not match the requirements in the rules.  :'(
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Bumsakalaka

  • Count Chevalier
  • **
  • Posts: 2212
  • Merit: 31
  • Fan of Fan expansions
    • View Profile
    • www.scifi.sk
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #121 on: December 29, 2020, 01:56:15 PM »
I forgot, that in #10 was red on turn, that he can take new flock.
Anyway, what if all flocks are used?
Bad question: there are alsways wolf in bag...
Check JCloisterZone Add-ons with fan expansions and also some Slovak sci/fi projects in English https://www.scifi.sk/en/

Offline Gagoune

  • Nobleman
  • ******
  • Posts: 116
  • Merit: 14
  • To place or not to place...?
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #122 on: December 29, 2020, 04:05:11 PM »
I definitively hate that Grinch...  :'( :'( :'(
I don't get any brain to understand anything... And now, impossible to stick even to the 3rd place... ;D

There are too many "meeple masters" around there ! Even if We don't already know the winner, I can say that those guys are incredible ! (Not to mention that Meepledrone has done all the work and has even told us a pretty story ! +1 merit for it...  :(y) before I definitively fall in the bottom of the scoreboard... :-[)

Edit : French version pdf here until answer #10 (but without scoreboard... don't want to suicide tonight !  :o  O:-) )
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 04:12:14 PM by Gagoune »

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #123 on: December 29, 2020, 04:37:13 PM »
- Meepledrone: Thanks! It is a great experience to share all this with you...
- Santa Claus: Oh Dear! The document is almost 60 pages now...  :o
- The Grinch: What did you expect? Why do you let him explain all this? People should be kept in the dark!
- Fir Tree: (a woodpecks pecks on the trunk)  ::)
- Easter Bunny: (to The Grinch) I have "Home Alone" waiting for you... again.  >:D
- The Grinch:-X
- Danisthirty: Hey! Here comes another answer...  ;D

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #124 on: December 29, 2020, 04:42:54 PM »
Question #11: The Gingerbread Man closed this city. How many points does Yellow score?





Answer #11: The city has 8 tiles and 2 coats of arms. Yellow will score 20 points for it ( ( 8 tiles + 2 coat of arms ) x 2 points = 10 x 2 points ).

Note: Don't be fooled by tiles participating twice in the feature: the tile with the city overpass or the tile with two semicircular segments. They are counted only once.

Bottomline:
- Yellow will score 20 points for the city
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 05:31:34 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #125 on: December 30, 2020, 01:43:33 AM »
Question #12: The Snowman places this tile, which completes a road connected to Leipzig through a village. It is Red's turn, who would like to send his meeple to Leipzig, to the Wainwrights quarter. How many points does each player score?





Answer #12: The tile placed completes the road occupied by Red and the monastery occupied by Blue. Red has a meeple on the road and decides to it to Leipzig (this is possible since the road just completed is connected to Leipzig through a village). Also the fairy could have been placed in this turn or in a previous one. Let's analyze each element separately.

1) The Fairy bonus at the beginning of Red's turn

There may be two scenarios:
a) The fairy was placed in a previous turn, so Red would score 1 bonus point
b) Red just placed the fairy in this turn, so Red would score no bonus point

2) Scoring the road

Since Red wants to send a meeple to Leipzig, Red scores 0 points for the road, that is, the player renounces to score the road. However Red scores the fairy scoring bonus, since the fairy was next to the meeple occupying the road being scored. So Red will score 3 points for the fairy.

Note: Red cannot score the Wainwrights quarter bonus right away, since it would require at least two Red Meeples on the road.

3) Scoring the monastery

Blue will score 9 points for the completed monastery.

Additionally, The players with meeples in the Bookbinders quarter in Leipzig will score the bonus. So Yellow and Blue will score 4 points each..

Notes:
* Scoring the monastery for 9 points follows the ruling for monasteries with tiles in other shapes like Halflings from 2014 and 2020, where a monastery is scored by occupied spaces no matter the tiles placed in those spaces. So the monastery is always worth 9 points in this grid-oriented approach. All the participants chose this approach.
* Another option would be to score the monastery by tiles, following the clarifications from 10/2015. In this case Blue would score 7 points for the monastery ( (2 double sized tiles + 5 square tiles)  x 1 point = 7 points)
* As clarified in a rules revision in 1/2022, the meeples are sent to Leipzig before the scoring takes place, so any meeple sent to Leipzig cannot receive the fairy 3-point scoring bonus (updated in 12/2022).

Bottomline:

>> Grid approach for scoring the monastery (C2 rules):

A) Fairy placed on a previous turn

- Red will score 4 points in two separate scoring events in two rounds of scoring (1 point for the fairy at the beginning of the turn and 3 points for the fairy during scoring) will score 1 point for the fairy at the beginning of the turn.
- Blue will score 13 points in two separate scoring events (9 points for the monastery and 4 points for the Bookbinders quarter bonus)
- Yellow scores 4 points for the Bookbinders quarter bonus too.

B) Fairy placed in this turn

- Red will score 3 points for the fairy no points.
- Blue will score 13 points in two separate scoring events (9 points for the monastery and 4 points for the Bookbinders quarter bonus)
- Yellow scores 4 points for the Bookbinders quarter bonus too.

>> Tile approach for scoring the monastery (C1 rules):

A) Fairy placed on a previous turn

- Red will score 4 points in two separate scoring events in two rounds of scoring (1 point for the fairy at the beginning of the turn and 3 points for the fairy during scoring) will score 1 point for the fairy at the beginning of the turn.
- Blue will score 11 points in two separate scoring events (7 points for the monastery and 4 points for the Bookbinders quarter bonus)
- Yellow scores 4 points for the Bookbinders quarter bonus too.

B) Fairy placed in this turn

- Red will score 3 points for the fairy no points.
- Blue will score 11 points in two separate scoring events (7 points for the monastery and 4 points for the Bookbinders quarter bonus)
- Yellow scores 4 points for the Bookbinders quarter bonus too.



Note on scoring for this question

Due to a misunderstanding of the rules, I initially considered that Red could score the Wainwrights quarter bonus when sending a meeple to that quarter in Leipzig. The wording of the Markets of Leipzig rules on WICA was correct, but the information on the Reference Pages covering the scoring during the game were reflecting the misinterpretation.

So I decided to award points to both options as if correct in order to be as fair as possible in this case. In the long run, this doesn't affect the final ranking for any participant, just the total points obtained.

Notes on answer update

This answer was updated in 12/2022 to accomadate a rules update affecting Markets of Leipzig, that affected the fairy points assigned to Red.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2022, 12:21:16 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #126 on: December 30, 2020, 04:14:43 AM »
Question #13: Santa Claus places this tile. What is the highest number of points each player can score after deploying meeples from the city of Carcassonne? Just in case anyone is interested, it is Yellow's turn.





Answer #13: The placement of the tile completes two features:
* A city worth 17 points (16 points for the city + 1 point for the little building)
  - The city itself: (6 tiles + 2 coats of arms ) x 2 point = 8 x 2 = 16 points
  - The little building: 1 point for the shed (from Little Buildings)
* A road worth 6 points (5 points for the road + 1 point for the little building)
  - The road itself: 5 tiles x 1 point per tile = 5 points
  - The little building: 1 point for the shed (from Little Buildings)
 
Note that each feature being scored allows all the players in turn to redeploy as many of their meeples in Carcassonne to the feature being scored, as desired, even zero. In this case Yellow will be the last player to move meeples and has the last word in this case to control all the features and score the maximum number of points.

So let's explore two scenarios depending on whether the Yellow Mayor is deployed from Carcassonne:

A) When all the meeples in Carcassonne are redeployed:

In this case Yellow takes control of the city and the road:
  - The city would be occupied by the Yellow Mayor (with two majority votes thanks to the two coats of arms in the city), the Red Meeple (with one majority vote) and the Blue Meeple (with one majority vote too). So Yellow Mayor would score the city.
  - The unoccupied road would be controlled by the Yellow Meeple, the sole occupier deployed from Carcassonne.
 
So, the scoring would be as follows,
- Yellow would score 23 points as two separate scoring events (17 points for the city + 6 points for the road)
- Red would score 0 points
- Blue Meeple would score 0 points

Note: Players would obtain the same result if the Red Meeple is not redeployed in this case. Red, fearing for the worst case scenario against Yellow , could keep their meeple in Carcassonne.

B) If all the meeples in Carcassonne but the Yellow Mayor are redeployed:

It would be very bad for Yellow, who would only control the road. In this case, Red Meeple (with one majority vote) and the Blue Meeple (with one majority vote too) would share the city and score points for it, obtaining their maximum number of points.

So, the scoring would be as follows:
- Blue would score 17 points for the city.
- Red would score 17 points for the city.
- Yellow would score 6 points  for the road.

In this case, Red and Blue receive as many points as they can get. However this only can happen if Yellow allows it.

Note: Would you allow this to happen in a game if you were playing Yellow? If so, Yellow is giving away an advantage of 34 points to their two opponents: 17 points they are scoring for the city plus the 17 points Yellow did not to score.

Bottomline:
- Blue would score 17 points for the city for scenario B)
- Red would score 17 points for the city for scenario B)
- Yellow would score 23 points for scenario A)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 05:33:01 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #127 on: December 30, 2020, 04:36:04 AM »
Question #14: After Danisthirty places this tile, how many points does each player score, if any?





Answer #14: The Blue Abbot scores no points. It was just placed on an incomplete monastery.

The tile placed completes an unoccupied 2-tile road. Nobody scores for the road itself but it triggers the scoring of the castle occupied by the Yellow Mayor. The castle is entitled to receive 2 points for the completed road (2 tiles x 1 point per tile) but the Yellow Mayor cannot score those points since the castle is a feature with no coats of arms.

So the Yellow Mayor will score 0 points for the road but will be able to receive the fairy 3-point scoring bonus. This means that Yellow scores 3 points after all.

Additionally, the completion of the castle occupied by Yellow triggers the scoring of the castle occupied by Red, since the castles overlap each other's fiefs. The Red Castle Lord will also be entitled to score the same 2 points the previous castle was entitled to for the road. As a result, Red will score 2 points.

Notes:
* A key point here is the dissociation between the points a feature is worth and the points a meeple can score (the mayor effect so to speak). Castles see the points completed features are worth, even if the meeples on them cannot score those points (the Yellow Mayor in this case). 
* Red will not be able to receive any points from the fairy. The fairy bonus is not part of the scoring of a feature but a bonus associated to a meeple.

Bottomline:
- Blue scores 0 points
- Red scores 2 points
- Yellow scores 3 points
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 05:33:25 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #128 on: December 30, 2020, 04:51:58 AM »
Question #14: After Danisthirty places this tile, how many points does each player score, if any?





Answer #14: The Blue Abbot scores no points. It was just placed on an incomplete monastery.

The tile placed completes an unoccupied 2-tile road. Nobody scores for the road itself but it triggers the scoring of the castle occupied by the Yellow Mayor. The castle is entitled to receive 2 points for the completed road (2 tiles x 1 point per tile) but the Yellow Mayor cannot score those points since the castle is a feature with no coats of arms.

So the Yellow Mayor will score 0 points for the road but will be able to receive the fairy 3-point scoring bonus. This means that Yellow scores 3 points after all.

Additionally, the completion of the castle occupied by Yellow triggers the scoring of the castle occupied by Red, since the castles overlap each other's fiefs. The Red Castle Lord will also be entitled to score the same 2 points the previous castle was entitled to for the road. As a result, Red will score 2 points.

Notes:
* A key point here is the dissociation between the points a feature is worth and the points a meeple can score. Castles see the points completed features are worth, even if the meeples on them cannot score those points. 
* Red will not be able to receive any points from the fairy. The fairy bonus is not part of the scoring of a feature but a bonus associated to a meeple.

Bottomline:
- Blue scores 0 points
- Red scores 2 points
- Yellow scores 3 points
Hahahaha I was waiting for another contradiction rules with no sense hahaha


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

- Meepledrone: ...and you thought mayors were dull!  :P
- DrMeeple: I could strangle one right now with my bare meeple hands!
- The Grinch: I have to see this!  >:D
- DrMeeple:o
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 04:54:56 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline corinthiens13

  • Baron
  • *****
  • Posts: 1002
  • Merit: 48
    • View Profile
    • Divider cards for C1 & C2 / C3 both in French & English:
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #129 on: December 30, 2020, 08:33:41 AM »
Aaw, questions 13 and 14 are marking the end of my correct answers streak...  :'(
Maybe the beginning of my wrong answers streak?  >:D

13: I did only explore the first scenario, the second seemed to unlogical to me, as yellow would never allow it  :o ???

14: I thought the second castle would get the same number of points than the first (without fairy of course), 0 points.
Here's a correction I have to make to the French order of play  ;)

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #130 on: December 30, 2020, 08:46:13 AM »
Aaw, questions 13 and 14 are marking the end of my correct answers streak...  :'(
Maybe the beginning of my wrong answers streak?  >:D

13: I did only explore the first scenario, the second seemed to unlogical to me, as yellow would never allow it  :o ???

You missed half the fun...  ;)

14: I thought the second castle would get the same number of points than the first (without fairy of course), 0 points.
Here's a correction I have to make to the French order of play  ;)

Castles "clone" points for features, not points scored by figures. That why castles can score points for unoccupied features, but they don't receive points for bonuses to meeples. Otherwise it would be inconsistent.

Offline carlium

  • Nobleman
  • ******
  • Posts: 109
  • Merit: 25
  • I haven't updated my profile yet! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #131 on: December 30, 2020, 08:47:45 AM »
In Q12

Quote
* The Wainwrights quarter bonus, since Red can score the bonus right away in the same turn he sends a meeple to Wainwrights quarter in Leipzig. So Red will score 5 points for this bonus (5 tiles x 1 point per tile).

why?  :'(

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #132 on: December 30, 2020, 03:56:04 PM »
Note by Meepledrone:

This post closes part of a discussion about the wrong interpretation of the rules for the Wainwrights quarter bonus in Question 12.

Check this topic for more information and the additional issues discussed about The Markets of Leipzig:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4956.0



Wainwrights quarter is overpowered  ;D ;D ;D I thought that case only applied when you had two meeples.  :P

Thanks for the info Meepledrone!



In Q12

Quote
* The Wainwrights quarter bonus, since Red can score the bonus right away in the same turn he sends a meeple to Wainwrights quarter in Leipzig. So Red will score 5 points for this bonus (5 tiles x 1 point per tile).

why?  :'(

This is a tricky thing in the rules:  >:D

Quote
If you send a meeple into the Wainwrights Quarter you will get the bonus points (see below) immediately.

Check the last sentence in first bullet after the example where a meeple is sent to Leipzig...
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Markets_of_Leipzig
Don't be cheat Meepledrone. The context says

‘If you have more than one meeple on the road you are allowed to send one of them to Leipzig. With the other(s) you can, however, score the points for the road [4]. If you send a meeple into the Wainwrights Quarter you will get the bonus points (see below) immediately.’

Therefore if you write one sentence followed by the other in that context you are talking about the case of more than 1 meeple on a road and that you place one in Leipzig. If what you want to say is that THAT ALWAYS HAPPENS and not only with the example of more than one meeple, you have to put the phrase apart at another point to differentiate it. Not point and followed ... Because it can lead to misinterpretation...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I think that both of you are right. I think the impression made in me by that post (the one I referenced above) made me interpret the rules in a wrong way. Thank you for pointing out the issue.  :(y) :(y)

As per the arrangement of the text, the sentence I quoted has to be considered only if you have more than one meeple on a road and you send one of them to Leipzig.

I will have to reevaluate Q12 accordingly. Sorry for the inconvenience.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 07:28:18 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline carlium

  • Nobleman
  • ******
  • Posts: 109
  • Merit: 25
  • I haven't updated my profile yet! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #133 on: December 30, 2020, 08:07:11 PM »
 :) Thanks to you Meepledrone for organizing this quiz (and even to hear our complains and questions hehehe). I can imagine the time you put to do it. It is remarkable. This is my second quiz since I am registered here and I have enjoyed both a lot.

+1

 :red-meeple:
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 08:14:21 PM by carlium »

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6292
  • Merit: 456
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXX
« Reply #134 on: December 31, 2020, 01:50:36 AM »
Thanks, Carlium!

It is my pleasure. Yep, it is taking some time to post all the results, but I think any discussion around the results is beneficial for everyone. As you can see, we all can learn new stuff from each other, including myself.  ;)

BTW, I already updated the rankings for question 12, 13 and 14.

I proceed then with the next one...


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via furl Share via linkedin Share via myspace Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via technorati Share via twitter

  Subject / Started by Replies / Views Last post
xx
Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXIX

Started by Meepledrone

151 Replies
43125 Views
Last post October 29, 2021, 08:41:39 AM
by Bumsakalaka
xx
Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz

Started by danisthirty

93 Replies
42010 Views
Last post February 06, 2016, 11:15:42 AM
by MrNumbers
xx
Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXVII

Started by danisthirty

104 Replies
34876 Views
Last post February 17, 2018, 07:56:46 AM
by Rich_The_Fish
xx
Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXVIII

Started by danisthirty

85 Replies
23987 Views
Last post January 10, 2019, 01:45:09 AM
by Piet_Agoras
xx
Carcassonne Central: Advent Quiz MMXXI

Started by Meepledrone

223 Replies
37321 Views
Last post April 11, 2022, 02:20:34 PM
by Bumsakalaka