Author Topic: Castle Scoring  (Read 208 times)

Online PapaGeek

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Castle Scoring
« on: January 13, 2022, 02:39:16 AM »
One of the rules that apply to castles on the WikiCarPedia page for Bridges, Castles and Bazaars is:

Two or more incomplete castles may be standing next to each other. If one of them scores points, it will be considered as a completed feature for the adjacent castles. All the castle owners receive the same number of points.

Footnote 18 example



This is the image that follows that rule, modified so that tile 1 is now an inverted tile 3!



The Wiki example talks about the scoring when Red places the tile on the right that completes the city.  My question deals with the blue numbers on the left side of the image.

If, before red places his tile, blue places a tile in square 4 that completes a castle to the left of Red’s Castle: as I understand the rule, the new blue castle is not considered a completed feature so Red’s castle remains on the board.

The Wiki illustration for footnote 18 uses a second castle that exists between tile 2 and 3, so tile 6 is part of both castles scoring fields.  In my example Blue’s tile 6 does not touch the city that is being completed, but it does touch Red’s castle that will score points when the city is completed.

So, when Red completes Blue’s city, which completes Red’s Castle, Red and Blue will each get 16 points. But, does the completion of Red’s castle also give Blue an additional 16 points for his castle?

And if that is true, does Red get 16 points while blue gets 32 points or do they both get 16 points or do they both get 32 points???


Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5664.0
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 02:48:04 AM by PapaGeek »
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Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Castle Scoring
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2022, 02:58:13 AM »
Quote
If, before red places his tile, blue places a tile in square 4 that completes a castle to the left of Red’s Castle: as I understand the rule, the new blue castle is not considered a completed feature so Red’s castle remains on the board.

Could you post an illustration of the situation? I'm not sure to understand how you imagine it  ???
Order of play in french with every major expansions, minis and promos:
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Offline Decar

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Re: Castle Scoring
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2022, 04:30:17 AM »
Hmm I'm not sure what you mean by complete a castle. Castles don't complete.  They score points in when something completes in their 6 tile area.

Online PapaGeek

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Re: Castle Scoring
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2022, 08:33:55 AM »
Quote
If, before red places his tile, blue places a tile in square 4 that completes a castle to the left of Red’s Castle: as I understand the rule, the new blue castle is not considered a completed feature so Red’s castle remains on the board.

Could you post an illustration of the situation? I'm not sure to understand how you imagine it  ???



Blue's city is now worth 16 points, it is a neighboring feature to Red's Castle so Red's castle will now be worth 16 points.  Blue's city is not a neighboring feature of Blue's Castle, but Red's Castle is a neighboring feature. Does Blue score 16 points because Red's Castle is now complete, plus 16 points for Blue's City?

This would not be the case in the footnote illustration because the location of both castles include Blue's city as a neighboring feature!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 08:46:27 AM by PapaGeek »

Offline JT Atomico

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Re: Castle Scoring
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2022, 08:53:21 AM »
No, you only score for the first thing that scores in the vicinity of your castle, so for Blue that is just the city. The chain reaction does not loop back round again.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Castle Scoring
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2022, 09:15:49 AM »
If I understood correctly, you are talking about a scenario like this one:
1. Red builds a castle in the vicinity of the city occupied by Blue (the castle fief overlaps the city on tile #6)
2. Blue completes a small city between tiles #1 and #4 and builds a new castle.
3. Red completes the city on the left.



Both castles overlap each other's fief so any feature triggering at least the scoring of one of them will trigger the scoring of the other in a chain reaction. This means both castles will score the same points as well.

You can see the dependencies here:
A. City occupied by Blue --> Castle occupied by Red
B. Castle occupied by Red <--> Castle occupied by Blue

In this case, the city completed by Red triggers the following sequence of scorings:
1. Blue  will score 16 points for the completed city ( ( 6 tiles + 2 coats of arms) x 2 points = 8 x 2 points)
2. Red and Blue  will score 16 points for the completed city (the castle scores the same points as the city is worth).

Bottomline:
* Blue scores 32 points (16 for the city + 16 points for the castle)
* Red scores 16 points for the castle.

Note: Castles only score points for one feature. If there are chain reactions, resolve the dependencies first and do the scoring accordingly.

You can see antoher case with castle dependencias in the Advent Quiz 2021. Check the answer to Question #20 here:
https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5565.msg82039#msg82039

EDIT: I finally posted after several interruptions and you already had shared an image similar to mine. :o
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 09:23:23 AM by Meepledrone »
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Castle Scoring
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2022, 09:17:52 AM »
It's like other Carcassonne features. They scored whey they are completed and score always only once.
Castle is completed if in vicinity (6 tiles) of casle is finished at least one feature. Doesn't batter if feature is or not ocuppied and if somebody scored that feature.
Example there is unfinished large city and you create Castle which has this city in vicinity. But other player place tile and finish 2 tiles road in vicinity of this castle. Nobody scores but this makes Castle completed, and Castle scores 2 points for this road.
In scoring of Castle is very important, that you scores structure points and not points of player scored for feature. Nice example is
City of 5 tiles and no shield on it. Only meeple on City is Mayor. So Mayor scores 0 points due to 0 power in city, but Castle scores 10 points due to structure score of this city is 10 points.

Offline kothmann

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Re: Castle Scoring
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2022, 10:18:46 AM »
In scoring of Castle is very important, that you scores structure points and not points of player scored for feature.
Whoa.  I've been doing that wrong, too...

Thanks!

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Castle Scoring
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2022, 11:13:39 AM »
In scoring of Castle is very important, that you scores structure points and not points of player scored for feature.
Whoa.  I've been doing that wrong, too...

Thanks!

Please check the answer to this quiz Question to see this in practice:
https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4911.msg73158#msg73158

Online PapaGeek

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Re: Castle Scoring
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2022, 09:42:38 AM »
Let me add another variation with another question to this thread!

If Red creates a castle hoping the Blue city will be completed for at least 12 points, but, one of the 6 neighboring fief spaces empty …



Then, Yellow fills the empty space with a tile that completes a 2 point road …



As I understand the rules, Yellow’s tile becomes a Neighboring fief tile and the Road becomes a completed neighboring feature, so Red is forced to score the castle for only 2 points.  The fact that the Yellow tile did not even exist before it became a neighboring feature makes no difference!

Also, if I am reading the rules correctly, Red will get just 2 points even if Yellow decides to place a meeple on the City portion of the new tile and nobody scores the insta-2 points for the completed road, except for Red who then has to remove the Red meeple from the Castle!

Is this correct by the rules?

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Castle Scoring
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2022, 11:13:54 AM »
Correct  :yellow-meeple:


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