Poll

Can you remove an abbot right before moving the dragon?

Yes, you can remove the abbot before the dragon moves and score the points afterwards
12 (80%)
No, the abbot should stay on the board and only score the points if the dragon didn't eat it
3 (20%)
Another option (please explain)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Author Topic: The Abbot - Escaping from the dragon  (Read 248 times)

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4992
  • Merit: 399
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
The Abbot - Escaping from the dragon
« on: December 07, 2021, 11:06:09 AM »
AB05. As indicated in the 20th Anniversary Edition rules, you remove the abbot in 2. Placing a meeple but you score it in 3. Scoring a feature. This means that, if you placed a dragon tile, you will be able to remove the abbot before the dragon moves, and you will score it afterwards. Is it correct?


Example: The placement of the dragon tile will trigger the movement of the dragon. Since the garden is not completed, Red would be able to remove their abbot before the dragon moves, and score the points for the abbot afterwards

Notes:
* Deferring the scoring of the abbot until 3. Scoring a feature represents a change from the turn sequence included in Big Box 6. ZMG explicitly indicated that the abbot was scored in 2. Placing a meeple.
* This change would also override a clarification provided by Georg Wild in 3/2015 (please ignore the references to Messages):
Quote
The scoring occurs immediately after the Abbot was taken back (move wood phase). That means, the dragon can't eat the Abbot and the Messages gets again a scoring round. After that the normal scoring phase takes place (score finished features).
* This change also overrides the turn sequence in Big Box 6:


Current understanding:
* After the latest clarifications about the scoring of the abbot, we are assuming the abbot is removed in 2. Placing a meeple but its points are scored in 3. Scoring a feature.
* As a result, a player may remove the abbot before the dragon moves, and score the points for the abbot after the dragon movement has ended.


Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5592.0
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Willem

  • Baron
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
  • Merit: 75
  • Keeper of the Carcassonne Museum
    • View Profile
    • The Carcassonne Museum
Re: The Abbot - Escaping from the dragon
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2021, 11:52:08 AM »
reading the rules for both, i find it most logically to be able to score/remove the abbot.
The abbot is removed and immediately scored in phase 2 "Placing Meeple"/"Moving Wood"
the Dragon moves after this phase, so the abbot could escape :)
Join me on the journey through the history and oddities of Carcassonne, on My Instagram

Offline Meepledrone

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4992
  • Merit: 399
  • It is full of... Meeples!!!
    • View Profile
Re: The Abbot - Escaping from the dragon
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2021, 12:44:37 PM »
The issue here is that, as per the BB6 turn sequence and Georg Wild's clarification, the removal and the scoring happened immediately in 2. Placing a meeple.

Imagine my face when HiG said that no scorings happen in 2. Placing a meeple. After several months asking about all this, we see the first hints in the 20th Anniversary Edition: the scoring happens in 3. Scoring a feature. The German rules state that you first score the abbot, followed by the other features. (This conveys new questions regarding robbers... >:D)

Whatever HiG decides, they should be consistent with other scorings (let's say) triggered in 2. Placing a meeple:
* Removal and scoring of the abbot
* The scoring of an acrobat pyramid
* Fruit action scoring
* Shepherd and flock scoring

Offline DrMeeple

  • Baron
  • *****
  • Posts: 878
  • Merit: 32
  • Meeples are meeples.
    • View Profile
Re: The Abbot - Escaping from the dragon
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2021, 12:44:58 PM »
Exactly. Officially the rule is to remove abbot before moving the dragon and then score the garden. If you play online in the official asmodee app (then HiG aproves it) with the P&D expansion with the abbot, that's how everything happens. I understand that here there is a problem of organization on paper between the differents editions and translation too… always the same….
Clipped buildings.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via furl Share via linkedin Share via myspace Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via technorati Share via twitter

  Subject / Started by Replies / Views Last post
xx
Maximizing Use of the Abbot (Carcassonne II)

Started by CarcinFool

6 Replies
21113 Views
Last post January 28, 2020, 03:34:43 AM
by Sinscerly
xx
Abbot and Tower

Started by rfielder

11 Replies
7041 Views
Last post October 10, 2014, 05:18:42 PM
by rfielder
xx
Abbot meeples for sale anywhere?

Started by johndavid

6 Replies
7037 Views
Last post December 11, 2014, 05:34:17 AM
by Gerry
xx
Alternative Abbot Colours from Cundco

Started by Decar

4 Replies
2703 Views
Last post May 12, 2016, 04:27:23 PM
by dirk2112
xx
Abbot / Mayor / Wagon and Tower

Started by obervet

9 Replies
6629 Views
Last post May 20, 2015, 10:52:54 AM
by obervet