Poll

If the table cannot be extended, tiles with open edges at the table edge...

Should be considered as closed by default (similar to the borders of a Carcassonne Map)
2 (7.1%)
Should be considered as open by default
21 (75%)
Should be agreed at the beginning of the game
5 (17.9%)
Should follow other rules (please explain)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Author Topic: Base Game - Table edges  (Read 933 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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Base Game - Table edges
« on: December 07, 2021, 09:03:33 AM »
BG01. During a game, the playing area may reach the edge of the table. Should those open road and city
edges facing the edge of the table be considered as closed? What about features like monasteries that
cannot be completely surrounded by tiles? Put in other words, should the edge of the table be considered as
the border of a Carcassonne Map?


Example: Several features at the edge of the table cannot be completed, since the playing area cannot be extended to close them. Should city 1, monastery 2 and road 3 be considered as completed features the same as if placed on the border of a Carcassonne Map?

Notes:
* This is relevant because this situation can happen in official competitions and there are cases where an extra table cannot be added to extend the playing area.

Current understanding:
* The playing area has no limit, so tile edges are not considered closed when at the edge of the table. Therefore, city 1, monastery 2 and road 3 in the example above should be considered uncompleted features.
* When reaching the edge of the table, players may make more room if required and/or possible:
   * The table should be extended if possible (adding another table)
   * The tiles on the board could be shifted unless otherwise agreed at the beginning of the game.
   
Proposals:
* No additional Community Rule is necessary
* Rewording of the "Use of a Table" on WICA could be advisable.
   https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Base_game#Use_of_a_table

EDIT: Included additional info


Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5590.0
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 06:46:37 AM by Meepledrone »
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline KBellon

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Re: Base Game - Table limits
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2021, 09:09:53 AM »
We don't consider them as closed. Just have to be aware when you are nearing the border.
We do consider it finished on a Carcassonne Map due to its explicit rules.
But these maps only came into play 10 years after we started playing carcassonne on a table  ::)

Offline Challa007

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Re: Base Game - Table limits
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2021, 09:17:32 AM »
We don't consider them as closed. Just have to be aware when you are nearing the border.
We do consider it finished on a Carcassonne Map due to its explicit rules.
But these maps only came into play 10 years after we started playing carcassonne on a table  ::)

This is exactly what we do, too.  :D :pink-meeple:

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2021, 09:24:27 AM »
One thing is the rules of the maps and the other is playing normal without a map ... Officially there is an end of the table and if there is something unfinished the meeple is blocked so it’s something to take into consideration when you are playing an official tournament. It’s also a very interesting way to block ... I love it hahahaha
Now if your idea is to apply the rules of the maps as if there were them in a normal game that would be to ask HiG if it incorporates it ... If they answer something hahaha
If I personally add it officially to the World Tournament for example? I wouldn’t do it at all. Now if it’s an informal game and you want to use it to be able to close everything possible and take advantage of the land table by making points, it’s a good alternative if you don’t want to play in a bloody way ...
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Offline kothmann

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2021, 09:29:08 AM »
My answer is always: make up whatever rules will let you have the most fun.  :-)  For us, that means edges closed, like a map or Abbey.

Except for very small games (Carc für 2), we always use a homemade mat, sharpie on tyvek, with size depending on game, and following map rules.  For the base game, the mat is 11x11.

In the rare instance where we don't have a mat, I prefer the "zero overhang" rule to the "gravity" rule, for determining when the edge of the table has been reached.

Offline wolnic

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2021, 03:49:16 PM »
Using a tablecloth or table protector allows the world to shift slightly if required … especially if there’s only room for half a tile …
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Offline Carcassonne93

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2021, 03:59:10 PM »
It is geometry. The space is infinite, so the edge of the table is inexistent.
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Offline DIN0

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2021, 04:29:41 PM »
The official answer was always option 2 - cannot continue and remains open. The fact that map edges close features is a special property of Maps as expansions - an expansion rule. Nothing more.

Online Willem

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2021, 01:55:59 AM »
we would often try to allow for tiles to be placed, by moving all the tiles along, or slightly overlapping, but there is a limit. It doesn't go on forever, and features are left open at the edge
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Offline danisthirty

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2021, 01:58:55 AM »
I mostly play online so table edges aren't a problem! ;)

In most of the competitions I've played in, players are almost always willing to let the game continue unhindered by moving the tiles back to the centre of the table if a lack of space prevents a tile from being placed. It might take a couple of minutes, but it's easy enough to do if you're careful (especially if there's a tablecloth) and I think this is best in keeping with the spirit of the game since the rules of Carcassonne don't specify a minimum table size. However, I have also experienced players (well, a player) who refused to allow this because they were using it to their advantage in building my features towards the edge of the table so that I couldn't complete them. Apparently this was a rule that the organisers of the tournament were enforcing, but because they hadn't announced it at the start, nobody was particularly aware of it (except my opponent who had made a point of asking them privately) and most players in similar situations were doing the reasonable thing and simply resetting the landscape.

So all things considered, my preference is to reset the landscape if possible, but whatever the decision is, to make sure everyone is aware of it at the start of the game/ competition.

Offline Challa007

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2021, 05:14:36 AM »
Has the poll been changed or do I have to go and see my doctor for memory problems?  :o
I don't remember having the choice of deciding at the beginning of the game when I did my vote ...  :-[

Offline totor66

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2021, 06:51:27 AM »
We try to push during the game if it goes too much on one side.

The only time we say it closes everything like with maps is if we specifically play on a small table, but we agreee at the beginning of game
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Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2021, 07:14:52 AM »
As far as I see, the regular game without Carcassonne Maps should assume the playing area has no limits. In case of reaching the table edge, the board could be shifted to make more room unless explicitly agreed otherwise at the beginning of the game. So any features that may not be closed due to lack of space should be considered as uncompleted by default.

Carcassonne Maps should not serve as a reference for the table edges, since their playing area is finite in this case and it defines certain rules for features placed on the border of the map.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 07:17:09 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline gamgeefan2

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2021, 04:21:28 PM »
Thought I'd remembered seeing this explicitly in the rules, but I was remembering this https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Base_game_(1st_edition)#Use_of_a_Table: .


Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Base Game - Table edges
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2021, 06:40:01 AM »
Please check initial post for additional info and comments.


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