Author Topic: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?  (Read 3172 times)

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« on: November 18, 2020, 02:07:36 AM »
Imagine that you have placed Solovey Razboynikov with trapped some meeples.
Than you place Vodyanoy tile next to Solovey Razboynikov.
Which one have more strength? ;-D
Does Vodyanoy trap also all meeples from Solovey Razboynikov?

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Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2020, 03:38:24 AM »
Imagine that you have placed Solovey Razboynikov with trapped some meeples.
Than you place Vodyanoy tile next to Solovey Razboynikov.
Which one have more strength? ;-D

Well, it's not a matter of strength. It is a matter of action range. The Solovei Razboynik traps all the meeples present on the road crossing the tile when the tile is placed or when any other road segment is connected later by placing tiles or bridges, by moving a ferries or by placing tunnel tokens.

On the other hand, the Vodyanoy tile traps any meeples placed on the neighboring tile when the tile is placed and later on during the game. This would affect any meeples places on features placed regular tiles, but would exclude any meeples placed on especial features that are not located in a particular tile: in Exp. 8 castles, inside the city Carcarssonne and Leipzig (by extension) and on the crown of The Wheel of Fortune.

So both tiles become a permanent pole of attraction for meeples. In my mind, I picture these tiles as vortices pulling in any meeples entering their area of influence.

Does Vodyanoy trap also all meeples from Solovey Razboynikov?

The action range of the Vodyanoy tile would allow this to happen. So any meeples trapped by the Solovei Razboinik tile would be trapped by the Vodyanoy tile, if placed adjacent to it. The same would happen to meeples trapped by a bathhouse.

So this would result in a peregrination of trapped meeples towards the Vodyanoy tile...

You may want to revisit the rules and clarifications here:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition)
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2020, 05:37:15 AM »
You may want to revisit the rules and clarifications here:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition)

Of course I did it. But there was not mentioning in footnotes interaction between those two tiles.
So for game flow is better to trap for first Solovey Razboynikov and then Vodyanoy.

In other hand, what if I play with two vodyanoy tiles and I placed their tiles touching their edges :D

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2020, 06:18:07 AM »
You may want to revisit the rules and clarifications here:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition)

Of course I did it. But there was not mentioning in footnotes interaction between those two tiles.

I'm proud of you.  ;D

Do you think a clarification on this would be necessary?

So for game flow is better to trap for first Solovey Razboynikov and then Vodyanoy.

Correct. I know why you are asking...  ;)

In other hand, what if I play with two vodyanoy tiles and I placed their tiles touching their edges :D

This is not covered in the rules, as you are supposed to play only one tile of each.... They represent singular characters, so to speak...

In the event you want to use several copies of these tiles, this may cause infinite loops or dilemmas:
* What about two Solovei Razboinyk tiles when connected to the same road network?
* What about two adjacent Vodyanoy tiles?
* What about two non-adjacent Vodyanoy tiles adjacent to the same tile? 

You may add a constraint to avoid Vodyanoy tiles to be adjacent to the same tlles but, it is more difficult to control that two Solovei Razboynink are not connected by the placement of tiles or bridges, by moving ferries or by placing tunnel tokens...

Do you want to get into that kind of trouble?  :o

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2020, 07:13:26 AM »
Do you want to get into that kind of trouble?  :o

Well, no, but as you know, some engine in verison 5 (anyway 5.1 was launched today) allow to set multiple tile sets from same expansions, so this was mine question.
Anyway, it can be handled by FIFO but.

I thing it has to be set some strength, or rules, which will be good to clarify also on WiCa.

Example (sorry I don't have those tiles to make picture).
So here is example in rows Solovey Razboynikov with connected 2 road tiles on right side, and below last one is Vodyanoy.
S -  -
      V

When player placed tile on right corder and enlarge road so you'll get and place meeple on plased tile. What happends?
S - - -
     V

A: Meeple is trapped by Solovey Razboynikov
B: Meeple is trapped by Vodyanoy




Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2020, 04:15:42 PM »
This is a great question!

Since there is no precedence ruling, I feel divided opinions here  :o

You could say any of these:

1) Solovei Razboynik is explained before Vodyanoy, so the former takes precedence in case of conflict.

2) The meeples placed on a road will be trapped first by Solovei Razboynik

3) Due to proximity, Vodyanoy will take precendence over Solovei Razboynik

4) In case of conflict, always choose the worst cast: Vodyanoy (meeples trapped by Vodyanoy lose 2 points during final scoring.

5) The player placing the tile decides...

6) You name it...

I'll see if we can contact Hobby World and solve this issue...
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 04:17:22 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2020, 02:34:33 AM »
I'll see if we can contact Hobby World and solve this issue...
This will be great, do you have contact, or @Murphy013?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2020, 05:34:55 AM »
I'll see if we can contact Hobby World and solve this issue...
This will be great, do you have contact, or @Murphy013?

Murphy013 has the contact. I'll prepare a couple of images to illustrate the question ;D

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2020, 06:06:41 AM »
I'll see if we can contact Hobby World and solve this issue...
This will be great, do you have contact, or @Murphy013?

Murphy013 has the contact. I'll prepare a couple of images to illustrate the question ;D
Great :)

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Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2020, 04:12:34 AM »
In other hand, what if I play with two vodyanoy tiles and I placed their tiles touching their edges :D

Try it, you'll see your meeples starting to levitate above the two tiles !   :):):))
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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2020, 06:53:40 AM »
In other hand, what if I play with two vodyanoy tiles and I placed their tiles touching their edges :D

Try it, you'll see your meeples starting to levitate above the two tiles !   :):):))

They will explode and do not get back to players' supply.

NEVER :D

Offline DIN0

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2020, 12:58:51 PM »
Actually, I have an idea which would be simple, useful and would still keep the curiosity of the situation.
It is derived from corinthiens13's remark
Quote
Try it, you'll see your meeples starting to levitate above the two tiles !

The meepes could indeed be kept in a superposition of sort, being on both tiles at once, just like a castle. You could indicate this by placing the meeple on its side like an abbot. Of course you can always remove it as per the rules.

(Of course I am only talking about two same tiles, not the original question as that has been answered by Meepledrone)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 01:00:36 PM by tp10053 »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2020, 03:01:23 PM »
Since both tiles are the same, it doesn't matter which Vodyanoy tile you choose as final destination for your trapped meeples. No Schr√∂dinger meeples needed in this scenario...  ;)

Offline DIN0

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2020, 07:15:36 PM »
Yes, but it would protect you against stuff like dragon and towers  >:D making it even worse, because you couldn't use them to retrieve it.

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Vodyanoy traps also Solovey Razboynikov trapped meeples?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2020, 09:51:34 PM »
Yes, but it would protect you against stuff like dragon and towers  >:D making it even worse, because you couldn't use them to retrieve it.
I guess, that it can be catched by towers. But dragon like them, and they are not protect agains dragon, or?


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