Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: petul on August 01, 2021, 05:05:55 AM
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I'd rather start a new topic here.
In case I don't understand the translation.
So that as a newcomer I don't spread nonsense.
I have a question about the following extension and paragraph:
Darmstadt Promo (1st edition) / 24
Citation:
These two church tiles are treated as cloisters. When one of these churches is completed, it is first scored the same as a cloister in the base game rules. In addition, the player who has the most followers on the church tile and the 8 surrounding tiles scores 3 extra points. In case of a tie, all players involved get the 3 points.
If I understand the rules correctly.
I understand them this way according to the picture.
Red and black both stand in the church.
Red gets 9 points.
Black gets 0 points.
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In this case, both Red and Black score 9 points for the Darmstadt church they share.
Additionally, Red has two meeples in the vicinity of the church, so he has the majority on those 9 tiles and receives the Darmstadt 3-point bonus for it. This majority does not affect the scoring of the church; it is just considered for the bonus.
Bottomline:
* Red and Black score 9 points for the Darmstadt church.
* Red scores 3 points for the Darmstadt church bonus.
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I understand, thank you :) :(y)
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No problem! :(y)
There may be scenarios where the player receiving the bonus is not even on the Darmstadt church.
For example: Black is on the church and Red has two meeples on adjacent tiles.
* Black would score 9 points for the Darmstadt church
* Red would score 3 points for the Darmstadt church bonus.
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The Czech translation has already been correctly formulated.
@Meepledrone this example of you is excellent.
I would easily add him there.
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Glad I could help! ;D
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I still have one question that didn't let me sleep
I will clarify the order of the move for sure.
According to the first picture:
1. Placing a tile
2. Scoring for completed areas
3. Scoring 3 extra points
4. Returning pieces from completed areas to players
Or phase 3 and 4 is reversed.
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You remove the meeples once the scoring is done (feature and its associated bonuses), so the order 1, 2, 3, 4 is okay. Therefore, there are no Schrödinger situations where, depending of the order the scoring is performed, you get different results.
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One thing: check the top right tile of the example. ;)
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quick preparation
it didn't work out a bit
I have a better one ready for my rules.
I have a similar picture for the phantom extension.
I use the fact that some extensions have not been released in our country.
And I'm trying to make better rules.
I add a picture of the game to each rule.
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I want to point out the differences in the rules for the fairy in the turn phase 2. placing meeple.
English text:
On any turn in which you do not place (or move) a meeple, you may assign
the fairy to one of your meeples by placing the fairy directly next to it.
Czech text:
V každém tahu, ve kterém hráč nenasadí na herní plán žádnou svoji figurku (žádného druhu) ani ji nepřemístí, přestože by směl (není to tedy při přiložení kartičky sopky nebo při odstranění figurky pomocí princezny), může přemístit vílu k nějaké své konkrétní figurce družiníka na herním plánu – přiřaďte vílu těsně ke zvolené figurce, aby nevznikaly dohady. K figurkám jiných typů (opat, velká figurka, vůz, prasátko atd.) vílu přiřadit nelze.
added text marked in red
Translation:
On each turn, in which a player does not place or move any meeple of his (any kind) on the board, even though he should (not when attaching a volcano card or removing a meeple with a princess), he can move the fairy to one of his specific meeple follower on the game board - assign the fairy close to the selected meeple to avoid guesswork. It is not possible to assign a fairy to meeples of other types (abbot, big figure, wagons, ping, etc.).
I wonder if these rules are also correct.
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I revisited the Exp. 3 rules in German.
Check the following excerpts:
1) Placing or moving of the fairy:
German:
Die Fee bewegen
Immer, wenn du in deinem Zug keinen Meeple einsetzt (oder bewegst), darfst du die Fee zu einem eigenen Meeple setzen. Dabei musst du die Fee dem Meeple direkt zuordnen, indem du sie dicht neben deinen Meeple stellst.
English translation:
Moving the fairy
Whenever you don't place (or move) a meeple in your turn, you may place the fairy with one of your own meeples. You must assign the fairy directly to the meeple by placing it close to your meeple.
2) The fairy and volcanos (as mentioned in the rules for the volcano):
German:
Der Vulkan (6 Plättchen): Sobald du ein Plättchen mit einem Vulkan ziehst, legst du es wie gewohnt an, darfst aber keinen Meeple darauf setzen. Du darfst allerdings die Fee versetzen.
English translation:
The Volcano (6 tiles): As soon as you draw a tile with a volcano, you place it as usual, but you may not place a meeple on it. You may, however, move the fairy.
3) Meeples and the fairy (as seen on the interactions on the last page)
German:
Sonstige: | Versetzt der Spieler die Fee, so darf er keine Figur wie Abt (Grundspiel), Baumeister und Schwein (2. Erw.), Bürgermeister, Gutshof und Wagen (5. Erw.) oder Schäfer (9. Erw.) einsetzen.
English translation:
Other: | If the player moves the fairy, he may not place a figure such as Abbot (base game), Builder and Pig (Exp. 2), Mayor, Barn and Wagon (Exp. 5) or Shepherd (Exp. 9).
Therefore these additions and additional limitations in the Czech rules are not present in the German rules:
* There is no limitation about what meeples the fairy can be assigned to
* Players are just not allowed to place a meeple (or the shepherd) if you place or move the fairy.
* You can move the fairy when placing a volcano tile
Does this clarify your question?
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explained thank you
I found out how it is with the Czech rules issued by Mindok.
Considering that the last version of the rules in Czech was released in 2016.
The wording of the rules corresponds to this.
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It seems they get creative from time to time. Check Exp. 5 to see if they added the extra round to place Abbeys at the end of the game. HiG included this in BB2/3 but removed it in C2. They confirmed this decision on Discord.
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I like how active you are in seeking out clarification of the rules, merit from me. I'm finding it's part of the intrigue, fun, and challenge of the game :-) - :pink-meeple:
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BB2/3 did not come out with us. Up to BB4 and more.
However, I found out that this rule came to us.
Mindok added it to a separate 5th expansion of the second edition.
More to the rules of the fairy
According to the current rules, the last sentence is wrong in the rules from Mindoku.
From @Bumsakalaka who received a statement directly from Mindoku.
He received a reply that at the time of issue this rule had not yet been confirmed by HiG.
The rest of the added text is correct.
I would then add this note to the rules to the Czech translation of WICA.
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@petul this is great idea to write rules corrections. It will be good to create some warning box for rules differences. Maybe include also clarifications from HiG to prove that is wrong rules.
And give info to Mindok about this "Errata"
Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku
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This is not unique to MindOK. P&D is full of "discrepancies" due to the translations by RGG and ZMG in C1... So ut is no surprise to me that other publishers take a creative approach when they misunderstand the original rules... ???
Even the C2 P&D rules by HiG are rather misleading at certain points such us the sequence of actions and the dos and don'ts with the volcano and the dragon tiles... :o
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I have a question to expand the Tollkeepers and The Markets of Leipzig.
To tiles with villages.
The word village is not used in Czech basic rules.
Only the word crossroads is used in our country.
It counts between the tiles with a crossroads eg. This from the 1st extension.
It makes sense to split the village and crossroads.
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I have a question to expand the Tollkeepers and The Markets of Leipzig.
To tiles with villages.
The word village is not used in Czech basic rules.
Only the word crossroads is used in our country.
It counts between the tiles with a crossroads eg. This from the 1st extension.
It makes sense to split the village and crossroads.
Indeed.
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The German base game rules include this sentence on clompleted roads in 3. Scoring a road:
Dabei muss die Straße entweder in einem Dorf, einer Stadt, einem Kloster oder in sich selbst enden.
Translation into English:
In this case, the road must end either at a village, a town, a monastery, or connected to itself.
Better rewording in English;
The end of a road is closed when it meets a village, a city, a monastery, or it loops onto itself by meeting the other end.
So maybe it is just omitted in the Czech rules.
Of course in other expansions you have crossroads with trees, but The Markets of Leipzig and The Toolkeepers require villages (check for Dorf/Dörfer in German) at the crossroads.
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I have added footnotes to the WICA for the messages extension. So far only in Czech translation.
I have incorporated the Mindok rules.
I'll post it here for others to read.
First some general information.
The expansion was released as part of Big Box 6 (2017).
Mindok copied the rules for the expansion from Big Box 4 (2012).
The text is worded in the style of the first edition.
I have created a "Notes on the Czech translation" page for these general issues.
This page will state that the text on WICA is edited in the style of the second edition.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Pozn%C3%A1mky_k_%C4%8Desk%C3%A9mu_p%C5%99ekladu
See also
Mindok has modified the ordering of the messages.
Messages 4, 5, 6 and 7 have a different sequence number in the Mindok rules.
This note has been added to each of these reports.
So
Text in footnotes:
In the Mindok rules, this message is listed under the number X.
Modified footnotes:
Note 17 - Similarly, clarification is missing from the Mindok rules.
Note 19 - Same as allowed by the HIG rules. Mindok rules also allow for this.
Note 20 - Added note that in Mindok rules it is message 5 and 6.
Here in the appendix are shown the images of the HiG and Mindok message ordering.
Message 4 - Mindok 7.
Message 5 - Mindok 4.
Message 6 - Mindok 5.
Message 7 - Mindok 6.
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Revisited the C2 Messages page to check no relevant clarification was left behind when I removed section Rounds of Scoring. I added footnote #21 about double turns and Message #4 (Message #7 in you case). Please have a look.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-21 (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#cite_note-21)
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Question:
In the English rules of the Traders & Builders expansion and Big Box. (see pictures)
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Traders_and_Builders
In the introduction for special figures there is this sentence:
These special figures have no impact on step 1. Placing a tile.
(https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5403.0;attach=16220;image)
(https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5403.0;attach=16222;image)
It is not listed on WICA - is it missing?
Or there is no reason for it to be there.
(https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5403.0;attach=16224;image)
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The wording was not consistent with either version of the rules.
Check if you like this approach:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Traders_and_Builders (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Traders_and_Builders)
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Everything's fine. The sentence is there. I completely missed it yesterday. ???
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OK. I updated the page after your comments to make everything consistent with minimal rewording yesterday.
Thanks for the heads-up!