Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: Hounk on January 22, 2015, 03:06:12 AM
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CAR states clearly, that the princess can also remove mayor and wagon. However in footnote 152 it mentions, that this is from Big Box 2 & 3 rather than from the stand alone expansion. I wonder, if this is still the recent edition of the rules. I bought the most likely newest HiG print of the stand alone expansion, it claims "(c) 2005, 2013", so it is definitely newer than the big boxes, and still it even specifies, that the princess removes knights. Although the rules have a quite big paragraph of expansion interactions up to 8th expansion ("The dragon does not remove followers from a castle") it does not seem, that the princess attract in any way mayors or wagon drivers, because that should be mentioned explicitly or the "knights" in the rules substituted with "followers".
Oddly enough, the paragraph about interactions between princess and other expansions provides two rules (I try to translate from German as accurate as possible):
- If a player removes the last knight of a player from the city, in which also the builder (2nd exp.) of that player is placed, the builder is also returned to the player.
- If a player removes the last knight of a player from the city, he is also not allowed to move (place) another figure like the builder and pig (2nd exp.), mayor, barn and wagon (5. exp.) or fairy.
While the first sentence is a little contradicting to what I was writing above, because of course, the builder should stay in the city, if the last knight is removed from the city, if there is still the mayor or wagon of that player in control of the city, the second regards the other figures (followers or not) as "non-knight". So I would assume, that according to rules, more recent than Big Box 2 or 3, the princess can not remove mayor and wagon.
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For all intent and purposes, a Mayor can always be read as "Knight", and is treated as a Knight by all rules except those explicitly relevant to the Mayor. I believe the same thing goes for the Wagon, which when in a City falls under all the same rules as a Knight.
Regarding your translated bullet points, the first statement could read Knight (or Mayor, or a Wagon functioning as a Knight), while the second bullet is specifically stating that a player cannot both remove a Knight and play a Figure (of any type, not just restricted to basic Followers) with the Princess action.
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It probably should be interpreted likewise you said. I still wonder, why HiG printed the rules the way, they did, especially, if they altered it again, after specially mentioning the mayor and wagon in the big boxes. Quite certainly, most people only sticking to the printed rules included, will tend to the interpretation, that a mayor is not considered a knight.
I also wonder, if this paragraph is exactly cited from the Big Box rules: If the player uses the tile to extend a city which is already occupied by one or more knights, the player may remove one knight (big or normal), mayor, or wagon (...) from the city and return it to its owner.
If so, it indirectly does not refer a mayor to be regarded as a knight. It would have seem more transparent, to form the rule like this: If the player uses the tile to extend a city which is already occupied by one or more knights, the player may remove one knight (big or normal, mayor or wagon), (...) from the city and return it to its owner.
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Knight = any type of follower that occupies cities. There can be simple follower, big follower, phantom, mayor or wagon.
You can just re-read rules of basic game:
The player must decide which part of the tile the follower is deployed to as either:
a thief on a road segment
a knight in a city segment
a monk on a cloister (monastery)
a farmer on a field segment
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Indeed, the mayor is a knight. The odd wording separating the mayor out was intended as a clarification that it is affected too, not just "standard meeple" knights.
CAR states clearly, that the princess can also remove mayor and wagon. However in footnote 152 it mentions, that this is from Big Box 2 & 3 rather than from the stand alone expansion. I wonder, if this is still the recent edition of the rules.
Big Box 2 and 3 represent the first times that the clarification occurred. If there was a more recent change to a different interpretation, that would have also been noted in the CAR. I'm not sure how the current rules are actually worded, because some of the rule wordings change multiple times over the course of the life of an expansion, even if the actual content of the rules stays the same.
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The rules I got are the same, as the pdf uploaded (http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Regel.pdf) to the HiG page. (In German of course.)
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Because the most recent versions of Princess and Dragon are stand-alone expansions (i.e. not in a Big Box), and those versions do not include specific text regarding the mayor and wagon, I have changed the CAR text and tweaked the footnotes to mirror this. I have also added an additional footnote to emphasize the fact that any follower in a city is, by definition, a knight.
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Because the most recent versions of Princess and Dragon are stand-alone expansions (i.e. not in a Big Box), and those versions do not include specific text regarding the mayor and wagon
Well, they do now. Page 4 of the rule sheet is mostly about expansion interaction. That's what puzzled me. Because they could have stated clearer, that "knights" include "mayors" and "wagons". Anyway, so be it.
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Clarification to my post above:
The newest version of the rules doesn't include specific text about removal of mayor or wagon, so I have changed that part of the CAR.
As far as the bullet points go, whaleyland is correct. The second bullet point indicates that you cannot place any figure after removing a knight; the specific list is just intended as a reminder of what sorts of things are figures. I agree that the term "follower" would have encompassed several of these, but they were probably afraid that some people wouldn't remember that the mayor and wagon are followers.