Clarification of rules - with HiG - 08 10 2015

[benbever]

So I have a question to you all - if you don't like that the dragon can eat all these meeple on the German castle tile - how many meeple can he eat?
You have the opinion the German castle tile is like 2 tiles...
And in this example he has only one step to go - the 6th one...

imho it's one tile and the Dragon has a 5 meeple feast.

With the suggested "counts as two" tile rule, the dragon can only reach the right castle tile (right half of the castle tile) and eat the yellow meeple. The green and blue meeple are on the other tile. The red meeple is in the castle and between tiles. (Like the other castles from the expansion, but in this case not so clearly/physically) The dragon can't reach between tiles, so the red meeple would be safe even if the dragon had another move.

[kettlefish]

great - now you like to change the rules for the German Castle feature - that was not the deal.
The German Castle doesn't protect the meeple inside the castle. The game mechanics are different than the castle from "Brücken, Burgen & Basare" (bridges, castles & bazaars).
This German Castle doesn't need as a base a small city with 2 half round city segments and it is not on a token.

[Decar]

So the Dragon can eat the meeple in the castle: i) if it enters either tile; ii) or if it crosses the tile.

[benbever]

This is how I see it (as a 2-tiler).  The dragon could move once North and eat the yellow meeple.  The dragon could take a second move, WEST and eat 3 meeple.  Some of us think it's thematically sound to keep the meeple in the Castle safe.  It's an awfully big castle they are hiding in. 

However If the meeple in the castle must be eaten I can see it:
i) Eating the Meeple when it goes NORTH because the Dragon can eat things in the castle.
ii) Only eating the meeple if it goes from Right to Left; because it moved across the castle....and attacked

The red meeple could be treated as being on the left or right tile (but not in this case since he's clearly in the middle) or on both, in which case he'll be eaten no matter if the dragon is on the left or right side of the tile.

Or he could be treated like he's on the imiginary line in the middle between two tiles, and, like the other castle, is safe from towers, the dragon, and the plague. In this case he is actually on the tile (and not on a castle on top of tiles like in the expansion) so it's less intuitive. But it could be ruled that the castle is dragon proof. (Are the real ones in Germany dragon proof?)

Your ii) idea of the dragon eating the red meeple if he moves from one half of the tile to the other half since he then covers both tiles, in somewhat inconsistent with the castle from the other expansion, and with the tower. This would maybe mean that the dragon could eat meeples from the other castles too if aligned properly, and that the tower can capture meeples from the german castle if aligned properly.

[kettlefish]

I've asked Georg Wild in this case - and asked him what should we do with the red meeple - it is in the middle of this landscape tile - if we decide to use it like 2 tiles - than we need a saw - a half meeple is still on the right side of the landscape tile. But together we decide, that would be a very bloddy Carcassonne game play...

[benbever]

...what should we do with the red meeple - it is in the middle of this landscape tile - if we decide to use it like 2 tiles - than we need a saw - a half meeple is still on the right side of the landscape tile. But together we decide, that would be a very bloddy Carcassonne game play...

Is the meeple on the right tile? Yes, half of it. Since yes, the dragon eats it.
Pretty simple.
With the "counts as 2 tiles" rule, the green and blue meeple are safe (for now), with the 1 tile rule they're also dragon snacks.
No point in making things more difficult than need be.

[jungleboy]

As another '2-tiler' (love it, Decar), my preference is to have the player who places the meeple in the German Castle choose which side of the tile he/she places it on. Then for the dragon, tower etc, the meeple is only captured if it the range of the tower/dragon extends to that half of the tile.

[danisthirty]

So what are we saying about Decar's Tower demonstration in his post here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2125.msg29643#msg29643 ?

[Hounk]

I must say, although I don't own the German Castles yet, and never played it and therefore shouldn't insist to much on my opinion, I kind of like the One-Tile-Solution, which had been provided by HiG. It gives the dragon a bigger snack, btw. "eating half a meeple" in a German Castle, while the same is safe in a regular one, would be inconsistent. The Tower has potential to give the double tile extra tactical use, like creating a "shortcut" which let you capture a meeple with one tower piece less, at the same time, German Castle tiles get a little more vulnerable to tower attacks, because there is more space, where you can add a tower tile nearby. And for example, I have doubts about the following statement as well:

If you make a road from the left half to the right of the castle tile -that would take at least two road tiles-, would that score 3 or 4 points?

4 points. Same as with school.

The main difference imho is not, that the school is two tiles, but that the school is a starter tile. Let's say, you have an unoccupied 3/4 loop and add the RRRR tile from base game and a thief. You get 4 points for that, not 5. Adding a GC to complete a loop road would be preety much the same, wouldn't it? This can never be the case with the school, because it was placed right at the beginning. So I wouldn't compare the issues of GC with any starting tiles.

I wouldn't have to much concerns about the "odd theming" of this double-tiles, because honestly Carcassonne never had been a game where theme is the main topic. Honestly, I have much more issues with "German Castles", "Dutch Cloisters", "Wind Roses" and the like beeing placed in the French countryside then with the abstract concept of "double landscape tiles".

Another issue, which raises a question imho is the combination of barn and halfling. As far, as I understand the clarification, it is (theoretical) possible, to place a barn on 4 halfling tiles which form two triangles with the 4 asymptotes meeting in one point, right at this point. But in this case, two farms would serve the barn. So what about farmers connecting to the barn? Would they only score for the cities in the field, where they are in or does the barn in some way connect the two farms to one?

[jungleboy]

So what are we saying about Decar's Tower demonstration in his post here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2125.msg29643#msg29643 ?

The photo is reattached to make it easier for people to follow.

My view is that in the GC to the right of the tower, the tower would require two tower pieces to reach the right half of the GC tile. The subsequent numbers would then be 3 and 4.

In the GC south of the tower, my view is that if the meeple was placed on the left of the two-tile GC, then it can be captured by a tower with two tower pieces. If it was placed on the right of the two-tile GC, then it cannot be captured by this tower. And as one final point, I think that no matter what you think of the 1 vs 2 issue for GCs, the grey tile marked 3 on the right side below the GC should never be able to be captured by this tower.

[Hounk]

I agree, that...

the grey tile marked 3 on the right side below the GC should never be able to be captured by this tower.

... and am sure, that this is according to the rules like stated above. However I like the "one tile concept" regarding the GC, and would consider it inconsistent otherwise, since the halfling tiles are not considered "half tiles" either.

[kettlefish]

I've added pictures for the tower question (No.7)

[danisthirty]

I think it’s well known here that I’m a big fan of the basic game, but I do enjoy adding expansions from time to time and have played most of them by now in various combinations. For a game that’s supposed to be set in Southern France and which boasts a medieval theme though, it isn’t always easy to accept some of the various elements that have come along and I like to think I’ve done a pretty good job of embracing most of them so far.

I can accept fairies, dragons (which are drawn to volcanoes whilst being afraid of fairies?) and magic portals. I can accept monasteries from Germany, Holland and Belgium turning up in France, and I can accept buildings from approximately 1000 years in the future too. I can accept the Catapult (and will even go so far as to say that I quite enjoyed it ), I can accept the various shades of green introduced by certain expansions and I actually like the new artwork! In fact, I think it’s safe to say that I’m easily impressed and will accept most things if they add more to the game than they take away.

What I can’t accept is this:



That’s nonsense.

Go 2-tilers!

[danisthirty]

I've added pictures for the tower question (No.7)

Thanks kettlefish. I appreciate the efforts you go to to seek these rules clarifications from HiG (even if I don't agree with them).

[SRBO]

it just contradicts with the halflings.. sorry to add to the discussion,

but halflings are actually 2 tiles being 1 tile (because it takes 1 square).. while castles actually is 1 tile being 1 tile.. (but takes up 2 squares..).


Lol 1 thing which i now read from this discussion is this: (see attachment)
so a barn is allowed in this case? because there are 4 intersections! (5!!)