Carcassonne Central

Carc Central Community => Online Games and Competitions => Leagues (including expansion leagues) => Topic started by: danisthirty on April 28, 2015, 08:33:03 AM

Title: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: danisthirty on April 28, 2015, 08:33:03 AM
All being well, the last few games of the Inns & Cathedrals league will have been played by the end of the week which means it’s time to start thinking about what manner of online competition will follow it.  :(y)

Since the Carcassonne world isn’t yet ready for another World Cup of Carcassonne Central (this will come later in the year), it seems that the next best thing would be to run a third Expansion League as the first two have been so popular (and fun).

We’ve already played extensively with Inns & Cathedrals and Traders & Builders so it seems logical that the next league should be played using one of the next three major expansions: Princess & Dragon, The Tower or Abbey & Mayor. Therefore, I’ve setup this little poll to assist us in choosing which to use.

Everybody gets one vote, but it’s a secret poll which means nobody will see the result until the deadline has been reached (one week from now). If however you’ve already decided that you want in regardless of what expansion we end up using, please post below to indicate your willingness to participate. Once the expansion we’re going to be playing has been chosen, there will be a small window of opportunity for anyone who hasn’t already signed up to do so, but I’m hoping to get this up and running as soon as possible so please don’t take too long deciding if you want to play!

More information will be available once the poll has closed, but for the meantime please assume that this will run in the same way as the previous Inns & Cathedrals league in that all players will be split between a number of initial groups wherein everyone will play one game against each of their fellow group-members. Players will then advance from these into “final” groups depending on the results of their games at the initial stage and final rankings will be determined based on the results of the games that take place in the final groups.

Then if anyone still wants to play Carcassonne after all that we’ll see about organising the next one. Probably.

Happy voting!  8)
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: Paul on April 28, 2015, 08:55:47 AM
Abbey and Mayor was an obvious choice for me.

Still sore after all the havoc 15 copies (total) of Dragons and Towers invaded my last megaCarc!  :o
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: danisthirty on April 28, 2015, 09:04:24 AM
Abbey and Mayor was an obvious choice for me.

Still sore after all the havoc 15 copies (total) of Dragons and Towers invaded my last megaCarc!  :o

I voted the same way. However, I'll be happy to play any of these expansions and quite excited to see what comes out on top. P & D and A & M both have a lot of components to them which will introduce a lot of extra thinking whereas The Tower is so chaotic that almost anything can happen.

The other thing to think about is number of tiles. 30 extra tiles is going to make for some fairly epic games I imagine, whereas 12 extra tiles might not seem that significant even though higher scores can be expected from the barns. So much to think about!
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: kettlefish on April 28, 2015, 09:55:04 AM
I have voted for Princess and the Dragon.
I like the Dragon and also the Fairy.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: Hounk on April 28, 2015, 11:08:55 AM
I also voted for P&D. I like all three expansions and think they should and will all be part of the Expansion League. So I think, we could just as well play them "in order". This did not happen with I&C and T&B, but for that there was an actuall purpouse, because you had some kind of an I&C tournament just a short time before. But I will be happy with any of the three, regardless, which will be picked and like to participate.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: aenima on April 28, 2015, 11:12:05 AM
P&D!  >:D
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: jungleboy on April 28, 2015, 01:07:51 PM
P & D and A & M both have a lot of components to them which will introduce a lot of extra thinking whereas The Tower is so chaotic that almost anything can happen.

[hijacking the thread]

The Tower's one component requires more extra thinking than pretty much any other component and probably as much as any other complete expansion. On every turn you have to consider the potential tower implications for you or for your opponent(s) before you lay a tile.

[/hijacking the thread]

I voted for P&D. It seems logical to me to go in order even though expansions 1 & 2 were switched around.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: danisthirty on April 28, 2015, 01:24:39 PM
P & D and A & M both have a lot of components to them which will introduce a lot of extra thinking whereas The Tower is so chaotic that almost anything can happen.

[hijacking the thread]

The Tower's one component requires more extra thinking than pretty much any other component and probably as much as any other complete expansion. On every turn you have to consider the potential tower implications for you or for your opponent(s) before you lay a tile.

[/hijacking the thread]

I don't disagree with this at all, but I still think The Tower is the most chaotic of these even if it does require a lot of extra thought behind each tile placement.

I will be equally happy with whatever gets chosen since I enjoy them all (now) and don't have any high hopes for where I may finish in any of the associated leagues either.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: rfielder on April 28, 2015, 03:26:47 PM
All three provide interesting challenges.

Before I vote, one question - with P&D, will the rule be that the princess MUST remove a knight?  Or will the removal be optional?
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: Chooselife on April 28, 2015, 04:25:53 PM
The only problem with P&D is the Fairy, I always forget to move it and the amount of points it generates is really big.
On the other side the Tower is one of the most strategic "offensive" expansions in Carcassonne.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: Carcking on April 28, 2015, 05:43:18 PM
I voted P&D just to keep them in order. Damn CDO!
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: Jéré on April 29, 2015, 12:32:57 AM
Secretly voted.  8)

..but I lost the last five games against my girlfriend with either P&D or The Tower so I'll let you guess what I voted for  :o
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: Rosco on April 29, 2015, 01:20:17 AM
I am not saying what I voted for but whatever wins it - I am in and this time it is war!
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: Hounk on April 29, 2015, 04:39:40 AM
Before I vote, one question - with P&D, will the rule be that the princess MUST remove a knight?  Or will the removal be optional?
I would assume it to be optional, since this is the HiG rule, general considered the official one.

I would never the less suggest, that we might include "River II" this time, if P&D will be picked. Would be an exception to the general approach of only including one expansion at a time, but I think that would make sense for the volcano tile. What do you think, Dan?
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: jma03 on April 29, 2015, 04:50:45 AM
Mayor and Abbey is definitely my favorite .
though anyone would be willing to play.
I hope to give my best in the next competition .
 :D
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: MrNumbers on April 29, 2015, 04:53:20 AM
Before I vote, one question - with P&D, will the rule be that the princess MUST remove a knight?  Or will the removal be optional?

Official HiG rule - the Princess MAY remove a knight, so I suppose we will follow this rule the way it is by HiG rules.

I would never the less suggest, that we might include "River II" this time, if P&D will be picked. Would be an exception to the general approach of only including one expansion at a time, but I think that would make sense for the volcano tile.

My personal opinion is NOT to include River II, but after all major expansions Leagues will be played, we can play co called 6th expansion League, which includes River II, Cult, The Count of Carcassonne and King & Robber.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: jungleboy on April 29, 2015, 05:11:00 AM
My personal opinion is NOT to include River II, but after all major expansions Leagues will be played, we can play co called 6th expansion League, which includes River II, Cult, City of Carcassonne and King & Robber.

Except that JCZ does not currently completely support the Count - it only includes the tiles but not the Count mechanism - so it wouldn't be exactly like playing the 6th expansion in real life. I'm not sure if farin is working on this or not.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: MrNumbers on April 29, 2015, 05:37:02 AM
My personal opinion is NOT to include River II, but after all major expansions Leagues will be played, we can play co called 6th expansion League, which includes River II, Cult, The Count of Carcassonne and King & Robber.

Except that JCZ does not currently completely support the Count - it only includes the tiles but not the Count mechanism - so it wouldn't be exactly like playing the 6th expansion in real life. I'm not sure if farin is working on this or not.

Yes, I am aware of that "tiles only" mechanism of current implementation of The Count, but I hope that Farin, who is playing with us in all leagues, will implement it someday ::)
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: rfielder on April 29, 2015, 08:36:43 AM
I would never the less suggest, that we might include "River II" this time, if P&D will be picked. Would be an exception to the general approach of only including one expansion at a time, but I think that would make sense for the volcano tile. What do you think, Dan?
I would like to second this.

Might we consider using River, or River II, or both for all future competitions?
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: danisthirty on April 29, 2015, 08:55:55 AM
I would never the less suggest, that we might include "River II" this time, if P&D will be picked. Would be an exception to the general approach of only including one expansion at a time, but I think that would make sense for the volcano tile. What do you think, Dan?
I would like to second this.

Might we consider using River, or River II, or both for all future competitions?

Although there are definitely certain combinations of expansions that work well together, the idea behind this series of leagues was to focus on one expansion at a time and really get to know it inside out. I would prefer it if we could stick to this. I don’t have anything against using River 1 and/ or River 2 in conjunction with any other expansions but I’m just as keen on The Phantom and King & Robber Baron and I’m sure others will have their own preferences too.

I think it’s better to keep things simple for the time being for the sake of consistency within the series, but certainly to consider what expansions we want to be included when it comes round to the World Cup of Carcassonne Central...
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: rfielder on April 29, 2015, 10:09:30 AM
Although there are definitely certain combinations of expansions that work well together, the idea behind this series of leagues was to focus on one expansion at a time and really get to know it inside out. I would prefer it if we could stick to this.
Dan - where you and I part company is in considering the Rivers as expansions.  I see them as a prelude to the game.

However, you are running the show, and I can understand your point.  Your wish for consistency is a good idea, IMHO, and I will continue to support you.

Given that the general concensus is that the Princess's ability to kick off a knight will remain optional, I have voted for the P&D.

A suggestion - for the next two competitions after this, use the second and third place votes from this discussion.  That way, people know what is coming, and there is less preparation/opinion gathering/discussion time needed.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: Carcking on April 29, 2015, 10:49:34 AM
...That way, people know what is coming, and there is less preparation/opinion gathering/discussion time needed.

Awe, that's no fun...we are compelled to "preparation/opinion gathering/discussion". That's what we're about!    O0
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: Hounk on April 30, 2015, 02:40:17 AM
Although there are definitely certain combinations of expansions that work well together, the idea behind this series of leagues was to focus on one expansion at a time and really get to know it inside out.
I was not in general suggesting mixing expansions, I was just in this case considering the volcano tile as a kind of "fix" to the problem, which might in some games be generated, if the first of only six volcano tiles is drawn rather late in the game. But like rfielder stated, you are running the show, and it seems, other prefere it otherway as well, so I'm perfectly fine without, too.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: jungleboy on April 30, 2015, 03:39:03 AM
I would be OK with / in favour of including the River II. In real life and in the weekly games, whenever someone suggests P&D, the next thing said is: "Let's add the River II then." The River II doesn't add any extra strategic elements to the game, so it wouldn't take away from the P&D focus of the tournament.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: danisthirty on May 05, 2015, 02:28:26 AM
I would be OK with / in favour of including the River II. In real life and in the weekly games, whenever someone suggests P&D, the next thing said is: "Let's add the River II then." The River II doesn't add any extra strategic elements to the game, so it wouldn't take away from the P&D focus of the tournament.

I certainly agree that P & D goes well with River 2 (in that it includes a volcano), but I don't see that this is sufficient reason to include it in a series of tournaments where the primary focus is intended to be just one expansion at a time. For one thing, P & D is 30 extra tiles by itself which is going to make these quite long games as it is, especially for those of us who like to take their time. But even though it's only an extra 12 tiles with no additional strategic elements, one of the things that can make games including either river so different is that they really open out the playing area giving you many more placement choices from the start. I guess it's kind of like starting a base game with the 12-tile City of Carcassonne (but not playing The Count) rather than the standard starting tile.

So with this in mind (and because I'm an IT guy who hates changing more than one variable at a time!) I'd really prefer it if we could stick to the major expansions for the time being, for the sake of consistency, and think about how best to include some of the smaller expansions in future tournaments.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: kettlefish on May 05, 2015, 12:55:08 PM
The winner is "Princess & the Dragon" - very nice.  >:D
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: kettlefish on May 05, 2015, 02:23:28 PM
Before we start a new league with the "Princess & the Dragon" - please organize some friendly test games for training - expecially for new members or for people who are new in the online game from JCloisterZone.
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: danisthirty on May 06, 2015, 01:30:56 AM
Thanks for your votes everyone; Princess and Dragon it is.  :)

I’m going to leave the sign-up sheet live for another couple of days to ensure that everyone has the opportunity to get their name down and then hopefully get the tournament started at some point during the weekend.

In the meantime, it is definitely worth getting a bit of practise in by playing this expansion through JCZ so that you can get used to the user interface and familiarise yourself with the rules if you’re a bit rusty in this area! There are normally a few people hanging around in the CarcC chat room (http://sydby.com/carcassonne/irc/index.html) most evenings if you want to play against a real person, but there’s always the option to take on an AI opponent if not. So please use this time wisely and make sure you’re on the top of your game once the tournament starts - no excuses will be accepted...  C:-)

Have fun!  :(y)
Title: Re: The Next Expansion League (Again)
Post by: Decar on May 06, 2015, 09:12:51 AM
aye!