Author Topic: The Drawbridges – Rules (Read 3955 times)

Paloi Sciurala · « **on:** November 17, 2023, 01:33:00 PM »

https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Drawbridges (https://cundco.de/media/pdf/2e/7b/5d/Die-Zugbruecken-Regel-The-Drawbridges-rules.pdf)
NOTE: I might make major edits to this post, including adding additional questions or modifying the already listed ones.

Let's discuss WICA related changes needed for The Drawbridges WICA page (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Drawbridges), the The Drawbridges related changes needed in other WICA pages, and the rules for this expansion, both when played only with the base game and when played with the base game and other expansion(s).

Stuff that (most likely) does not has to be discussed (but should be clarified by WICA):

https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Drawbridges#3._Scoring_a_feature – If you have the majority on the road leading to the drawbridge, you may move your meeple from that road into the city. – A highwayman that has the fairy assigned to it does not keep the fairy when it moves in a city.
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Drawbridges#3._Scoring_a_feature – If you have the majority on the road leading to the drawbridge, you may move your meeple from that road into the city. – A highwayman that has ghost(s) assigned to it does not keep the ghost(s) when it moves in a city.

As a note, I think that it is clever that HiG provided us 2 CCRFs and 2 CCFRs (https://wikicarpedia.com/images/2/22/The_Drawbridges_C3_Promo_Image.jpg).

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6519.0

Meepledrone · « **Reply #1 on:** November 17, 2023, 04:41:19 PM »

Note that the scoring of any meeples takes place as usual, so if the fairy or any ghosts were assigned to a meeple on a road wih drawbridges, they should be removed after the road is scored.

The only difference is those meeples on the road to be moved are not returned to their owners... It is similar to moving a wagon into a city in C1 (the distance moved didn't matter).

Paloi Sciurala · « **Reply #2 on:** November 17, 2023, 05:03:25 PM »

Quote from: Meepledrone on November 17, 2023, 04:41:19 PM

Note that the scoring of any meeples takes place as usual, so if the fairy or any ghosts were assigned to a meeple on a road wih drawbridges, they should be removed after the road is scored.

The only difference is those meeples on the road to be moved are not returned to their owners... It is similar to moving a wagon into a city in C1 (the distance moved didn't matter).

I agree. On my first read of the rules, I have not seen that the player receives points for the road it he/she chooses to move the highwaymen in a city.

Meepledrone · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2023, 05:10:29 PM »

Here you are my initial list of interactions for The Drawbridges.

General Comments:

• Meeple on a road that can be moved into a city by using a drawbridge that is down:
o   Normal meeple (Base Game)
o   Large meeple (Exp. 1 – Inns & Cathedrals)
o   Wagon (Exp. 5 – Abbey & Mayor)
o   Ringmaster (Exp. 10 – Under the Big Top)
o   Guard meeple (Exp. 11 – Ghosts, Castles & Cemeteries)
o   Phantom (The Phantom)
• Figures on a road that cannot be moved into a city by using a drawbridge that is down:
o   Builder (Exp. 2 – Traders & Builders)
o   Fairy (Exp. 3 – The Princess & the Dragon)
o   Mage (Mini #5 – Mage & Witch)
o   Witch (Mini #5 – Mage & Witch)
o   Ghost added to meeple (Exp. 11 – Ghosts, Castles & Cemeteries)
• The meeple on a road -to be moved into a city- can be on any tile of the road or its bridges (Exp. 8 – Bridges, Castles & Bazaars), and even on roads connected by tunnels (The Tunnel), ferries (Mini #3 – The Ferries), roundabouts (Exp. 5 – Abbey & Mayor, Exp. 7 – The Catapult, The Signposts, the Spiel’18 tile) or labyrinths (The Labyrinth).
• The meeple moved into the city can be placed on any tile of the city. This may be relevant when playing with the dragon (Exp. 3 – The Princess & the Dragon), towers (Exp. 4 – The Tower), the plague (The Plague), or the Change Position gift card (The Gifts), and so on.
Note: The meeple can only be placed on city segments. Any monasteries within the city cannot be occupied (Exp. 3 – The Princess & the Dragon, Exp. 8 – Bridges, Castles & Bazaars).
• A road sending a meeple into a city can be completed by the placement of a tile (including abbeys from Exp. 5 – Abbey & Mayor), by the movement of a ferry (Mini #3 – The Ferries) or by the placement of a tunnel token (The Tunnel).
• The movement of a meeple into a city cannot trigger actions such as:
o   Harvesting or selling fruits (The Fruit-bearing Trees).
o   Scoring the Notre-Dame bonus when the meeple is placed adjacent to a monastery (The Wonders of Humanity) --- Unless HiG approve this bonus outside 2. Placing a meeple (still open).
•The movement of a meeple into a city can trigger actions such as:
o   Trapping the meeple by Vodyanoy (Russian Promos).

Exp. 5 – Abbey & Mayor: After scoring, a player with a wagon placed on a road ending at a drawbridge which is down can choose only one of the following actions:
• Remove their wagon.
• Move the wagon to an adjacent tile as stated in the rules of Exp. 5 – Abbey & Mayor.
• Move the wagon into the incomplete city, no matter its distance to the city.
The wagon can perform only one of these actions and cannot combine the two possible movements.

Exp. 6 – Count, King & Robber: All the meeple already placed on a road and those deployed from Carcassonne can be moved into an incomplete city connected by a drawbridge to the road.

Exp. 10 – Under the Big Top: The movement of meeple into cities takes place before the scoring of the big top.

Exp. 11 – Ghosts, Castles & Cemeteries: Any ghosts assigned to a meeple on a road will return to the general supply before moving the meeple into a city.

The Peasant Revolts:
• A meeple protected from peasant revolts will be stay protected if moved into a city.
• When moving a meeple into a city you may pay 4 points to place it protected.

Paloi Sciurala · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2023, 05:30:04 PM »

"or roundabouts" plus the labyrinth.

Meepledrone · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2023, 05:38:25 PM »

Added labyrinths to the post above!

Bumsakalaka · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2023, 05:32:36 AM »

Exp. 6 – Count, King & Robber: All the meeple already placed on a road and those deployed from Carcassonne can be moved into an incomplete city connected by a drawbridge to the road.

- this is not 100% correct. Only these meeples which player(s) has majority on a scored road connected by a drawbridge

Meepledrone · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2023, 05:36:03 AM »

Yes, of course majority has to be taken into account. Didn't want to repeat the rules in every sentence.

Bumsakalaka · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2023, 05:38:04 AM »

Quote from: Meepledrone on November 18, 2023, 05:36:03 AM

Yes, of course majority has to be taken into account. Didn't want to repeat the rules in every sentence.

Understood, but here it is important, because that "any" can someone read and said, that really any

Meepledrone · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2023, 06:13:13 AM »

Do you prefer this wording?

Exp. 6 – Count, King & Robber: Any meeples deployed on a road from Carcassonne may also be moved into an incomplete city if the drawbridge conditions are met.

Paloi Sciurala · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2023, 07:07:51 PM »

Quote from: Meepledrone on November 17, 2023, 05:10:29 PM

• Move the wagon into the incomplete city, no matter its distance to the city.

Maybe it should be more clearly specified that this is possible only as long as the owner of the wagon had the majority on the road.

Paloi Sciurala · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2023, 06:30:00 PM »

These need clarification at https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Drawbridges#Other_expansions:

If there is a road that leads to a drawbridge (that leads to an incomplete city) and that has only 1 highwayman on it, and that highwayman is eligible to go to a bathhouse, is completed, then the owner of the highwayman has to send the highwayman to a bathhouse, the owner not being able to move the highwayman in the incomplete city.
If on a just completed road there are several meeples, and after some of them have been sent through the drawbridge(s) and only 1 meeple remains on the road, this meeple does not have to be sent to a bathhouse – in order for a meeple taking part in a scoring to be eligible for bathhouse, it must be alone at the moment of scoring, and the fact that the meeple was alone after the other meeples moved through drawbridge(s) does not matter, because the feature (the road) was already scored.

This is similar to The Markets of Leipzig – meeples can remain alone on the Leipzig roads, but that does not mean they have to be sent to bathhouse. This is not explicitely clarified by WICA.

PapaGeek · « **Reply #12 on:** December 16, 2023, 12:13:28 AM »

Please excuse my image without any meeples on it!

Red places the CCCF tile and claims the city with his meeple. On his next turn he draws and adds the Cathedral Tile and places his builder on it. Then Green draws the Monastery Tile, places his Green meeple on the Monastery, leaving the road unoccupied.

On my Blue turn, I draw the Drawbridge tile. As I understand the rules, I can add it to the incomplete Red city, and place my Large Meeple on the Drawbridge road!

The road is now complete so I score 2 points, and the Drawbridge is down because the city is incomplete, so I can also move my Large Meeple into the city!

Is that what the rules allow?

Paloi Sciurala · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2023, 05:54:17 AM »

Quote from: PapaGeek on December 16, 2023, 12:13:28 AM

Please excuse my image without any meeples on it!

[...]

Is that what the rules allow?

@PapaGeek – Yes, your scenario should be possible.

Bumsakalaka · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2023, 06:14:56 AM »

Quote from: PapaGeek on December 16, 2023, 12:13:28 AM

Please excuse my image without any meeples on it!

Red places the CCCF tile and claims the city with his meeple. On his next turn he draws and adds the Cathedral Tile and places his builder on it. Then Green draws the Monastery Tile, places his Green meeple on the Monastery, leaving the road unoccupied.

On my Blue turn, I draw the Drawbridge tile. As I understand the rules, I can add it to the incomplete Red city, and place my Large Meeple on the Drawbridge road!

The road is now complete so I score 2 points, and the Drawbridge is down because the city is incomplete, so I can also move my Large Meeple into the city!

Is that what the rules allow?

Imagine, that in that city is also Watchtower city tile adjacent to Cathedral. Can I move meeple there? As in the rules is not said , where I have to place my meeple or on which tile, I can place it elsewhere, but in the city. I'm pointing rules for City of Carcassonne, which allows to place your meeple to finished feature, without limitation of where.