C1 Edition Identification Help

[OJH1997]

Hello All

So I recently purchased an advertised early edition of Carcassonne which arrived today and I would like some help in its identification. Personally I think the box and contents have a small mismatch but perhaps a version was released that matches what I purchased. First off the box I bought is (at least it seems to me) definatly a original first edition English Language one from Rio Grande, complete without the "Game of the Year" award and depicting the elusive 70 Scoreboard on the back of the box... (Also apololgies if pictures are considered too big, not great at figuring out the old resizing of them even after reading that thread)

However, the contents don't quote match this. What I bought came with The River tiles and hand typed rules for this, as my box does not say that it includes the river and no mention of this expansion is covered in the actual rules that came with game I can only assume this was added to this box either by the person I bought it from or before that. The main query I have as to if this is a mix-matched box in terms of the contents and the box itself, or an actual edition that was released, is that (sadly) this game didnt come with a 70 point scoreboard but rather the grey 50 one. This is depsite the fact that the 70 scoreboard is depicted on the box and even on the rules...

The rules are definiatly for first edition farmer scoring as well, with no mention of laying the farmers down. So yeah thats my new box. As I said, I think its an original first edition box that at one point contained a 70 scoreboard but since has had the Grey 50 scoreboard added and The River tiles added. Though as I said I am by no means an expert on early editions of Carcassonne hence this post becuase perhaps an edition like this (sans The River) was brefily sold. Any help in pining down the most likely or indeed definite identification of this edition would be most helpful. Thanks in advance!

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5779.0

[Willem]

I can't see the pictures, but this might help:

Sounds to me like it is actually a 2nd edition from Rio Grande.
On the box, it is really difficult to spot the difference with the 1st edition, as the only difference is the barcode actually.
1st edition barcode: 4001504481254
2nd edition barcode: 655132001700

other than that, the boxes are identical. The 1nd edition indeed comes with the gray 50 point scoretrack, not the 70 point one from the 1st edition.
The rules are also identical, with 1st edition farmer scoring and small city scoring.

The River seems to be an addition someone made, but wouldn't have been included in the box when it was bought new.
Does that help answer your question?

[OJH1997]

Thank Willem

Sorry for removing my last reply if you saw that, but thats becasue after what you said about the barcodes (and sadly mine is 655132001700, thus making it a 2nd edition) and just after I had posted that, I thought I would just quickly check the only example I've seen for sale (it's currently on eBay for a cool $185). I did this out my own curiosity about the ISBN number as that is what I had been doing before when seeing if my box was first edition unaware about checking the barcode.

And well, that one, which according to the pictures definietly has a 70 Scoreboard, also as 655123001700 as its barcode? Link here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1st-edition-Carcassonne-with-70-point-board-/174193448346

So I guess my follow-up question would be, is that version that is for sale a mix then of 1st edition content in a 2nd edition box or?

Thanks again aha

[Willem]

Interesting!

From what i've been able to compare, the barcodes made the difference between the RGG 1st and 2nd editions. It can be that it is more a country-thing, where 1 was used in UK and 1 in US for example.
It shows that sometimes it can be tricky to find a true 1st edition, and RGG has not made it easy.
HiG and 999 have made it a bit easier, as you can tell clearer on the box if it's a 1st edition

[OJH1997]

Ahh yeah I suppose differing by country is a fair explanation - as you said does seem to be very hard to tell the difference, but considering the scoreboard in mine along with that later barcode I think its fair to say mine is 2nd edition!

Guess if I'm ever able to afford a true first edition I'll have to make sure it has that 70 scoreboard rather than just the barcode (not that I think I will be able to get my hands on one of them for a while aha)

[konrad2605]

You can't necessarily go by the barcode.
There are boxes where the 70 plan is shown and yet contains only a 50.
This is because after there was a rule change, there were still too many 70s boxes and these were then filled with the 50s counting boards.
I also have such a box, on the back of the 70s is shown, but the front is the pöppel shown.
So there is only a 50 inside.
With the German edition it is simple.
There is no age indication on the header page and the game rules are folded, because they are bigger than the box.
With the others, it is difficult, because they have taken everything possible in cardboard boxes.
One could go manyicht after the year.
From how many years is on the box? 10 years or 8 years.
10 years = 1 edition

Rio Grande also had an edition with the river and in the back with the 70 board.
But the river there was only later.

[OJH1997]

You can't necessarily go by the barcode.
There are boxes where the 70 plan is shown and yet contains only a 50.
This is because after there was a rule change, there were still too many 70s boxes and these were then filled with the 50s counting boards.

Okay so does this mean that both 4001504481254 and 655132001700 were used in First Edition runs but 4001504481254 is the only one guranteed to have a 70 score with 655132001700 having a chance of either the 70 or the grey 50?

From how many years is on the box? 10 years or 8 years.
10 years = 1 edition

Is the age on the box only an indicator on the German version or English as well? Because my one says 10+ (only back, there is no indication of age on the box lid sides) which would make it a First Edition box by what you have said - thus meaning it originally had a 70 scoreboard in which has since been replaced by a 50 by prior owner or did the Grey 50 also go in boxes with barcode 655132001700 also come with 10+ on the box as opposed to 8+ which you suggested was for 2nd edition. Equally the rules are (as best I can tell) from the very first itteration with farmers being used to score 4pts to whoever has the most of them around a city and the rules make no reference to laying them down.

Thanks again in advance aha - also hopefully I've figured out how to attach these pictures of my box

[konrad2605]

Okay so does this mean that both 4001504481254 and 655132001700 were used in First Edition
while 655132001700 has a chance of either the 70 or the gray 50

It was 4001504481254 and 655132001700 used for the first edition and both can have either a 50 or a70 board.

In the first edition pawns got 4 points per city, in the new version only 3 points per city.
If there is only 2 cards in a city, the pawn gets only 1 point per city, so 2 points, in the new version 2 points per city, so 4 points.

In your box there was originally a 70 scoring board which has been replaced.
The first version had the age written as 10+.

Have a look in the German forum.
https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?p=54550#p54550
Maybe it helps

[OJH1997]

Thanks for the clarificaion, my rules are for certain 1st edition and with that 10+ I am inclined to agree with your conclusion that this is a box that once held a 70 but that as alas gone   

I'm also going to assume that all the tiles and scoreboard come from a C1 + River Expansion box but that they didnt put the rules from that box in this and thus had to type up the rules for the River. Seems to be the simplest explanation for the missmatch of box and contents. Still a good find that is going to get its first play under my ownership this evening!

[KlausiMausi]

My list of EAN and GTIN numbers can also be helpful for such questions. Registered users can find the current version in the download area on carcassonne-forum.de

[Willem]

Unfortunately, i'm not sure the "10 and up" age recommendation for the game is a good identifier.
The german 2nd edition also had 10 and up for example.

It is interesting to see that the EAN's for the RGG 1st and 2nd editions were used interchangeable; which doesn't surprise me, as indeed a lot of 'older' boxes would be used for the newer scoretrack.
Basically it means that for RGG boxes, it might not be possible to know exactly if it's a 1st or 2nd edition without opening the box 

[OJH1997]

Hmmm yes, I guess it does mean that opening them up is the only way of certainty, still considering I plan on playing with a 70 board if I ever do get one (not likely but a Meeple can dream) then it does not really affect me as I would not be looking for sealed First Editions anyway aha

Though it is faciniting that there seems to be no sure-fire way to tell. Almost as if RGG wanted to make sure future collectors would be scratching their heads!