Author Topic: Competition Rules Clarification: When is a U-turn not a U-turn? (Read 12817 times)

rfielder · « **on:** August 27, 2014, 01:29:10 PM »

Before the next round of competition starts, I would like to ask for a clarification about the use of the River, or River II.

When playing against the AI, it did two left turns of the river with one tile inbetween. This is not a true "U-turn", but it is very close. Attached is a screen shot.

Elsewhere, I have seen different distances suggested, or even bans on U-turns.

The CAR, in footnote #36, is clear that U-Turns are forbidden.

What I would like to know is what rule will be applied for this competition? How many tiles are needed between turns in the same direction?

Thank you.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=997.0

danisthirty · « **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2014, 02:23:07 PM »

@rfielder - my understanding of a U-turn is that it must be immediate. If there are one or more tiles between the the two turns (as per your example) then it is allowed.

Jéré · « **Reply #2 on:** August 27, 2014, 02:28:46 PM »

You've missed the word "immediate".

From CAR: "Only immediate U-turns are explicitly forbidden"

rfielder · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2014, 09:29:14 AM »

Quote from: Jéré on August 27, 2014, 02:28:46 PM

You've missed the word "immediate".

From CAR: "Only immediate U-turns are explicitly forbidden"

In other words, it only needs one tile between to stop it from being "immediate"?

I guess this means that farin has interpreted the rules correctly. Personally, I would prefer two or three, but am glad to follow the rules.

Thanks!

danisthirty · « **Reply #4 on:** August 28, 2014, 09:35:13 AM »

I think the reason that "immediate" u-turns are forbidden is that this could easily block certain tiles from being placed as it would need to join on more than one side (i.e. not just the where river meets river). This said, it's still perfectly possible that you could end up laying the river out into a loop without there being any immediate u-turns. This would well and truly mess things up!

Paul · « **Reply #5 on:** August 28, 2014, 02:21:00 PM »

My Carcassonne app for my phone (.apk) there is no U-turn allowed ever, which was a bit frustrating. Lol.

kettlefish · « **Reply #6 on:** August 28, 2014, 02:22:38 PM »

never ever a U-turn for the river...

Paul · « **Reply #7 on:** August 28, 2014, 02:31:08 PM »

Quote from: kettlefish on August 28, 2014, 02:22:38 PM

never ever a U-turn for the river...

That's not what CAR 7.02 says.

(Annotation) 36 Question: With the U-turn rule when making rivers, does that mean no U-turn ever, or just no
immediate U-turns because it will complicate the placement of subsequent river tiles? Answer: Only
immediate U-turns are explicitly forbidden. (Naturally there can also be problems if a straight river tile
lies between.)

kettlefish · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2014, 02:52:15 PM »

There is also a great work from John Sweeney - U-turns are there allowed but not immediately...

http://www.modernjive.com/carcassonne/carcassonnetheriver.pdf

also you can find an answer at the blog from mjharper:
http://carc.mjharper.de/page7/page7.html#With_the_U-turn_rule_when_build

mjharper asked Georg Wild (HiG) some years ago.
Sometimes the answers from Georg Wild are very interesting.

But I play with river I + II with no U-turns, only if I play the river together with the river-fan-expansions.

Paul · « **Reply #9 on:** August 28, 2014, 03:13:33 PM »

We use both river starter tiles more as of lately, creating two rivers.

To avoid any hickups the two rivers flow opposite one another always outwards away from the starter tile. (In other words, no U-turn allowed.) Now that I have 4 copies of both River I and II (I think, lol) we hope to test four directions!
Come to think of it, I don't think we played with the same rule twice. We always try new starter layouts etc.