Author Topic: 20th Anniversary Phantom  (Read 798 times)

Offline PapaGeek

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20th Anniversary Phantom
« on: February 13, 2023, 09:22:04 AM »
Both of the arrow symbol actions start with the wording “Instead of placing a meeple on the tile just placed” which clearly states that you can’t do the action and also place a second meeple on the Anniversary tile.

The Phantom rule for placing a tile is:
After placing a tile, the player may deploy the phantom to it as a second follower (on a second feature).  Thus, in one turn the player may deploy two followers to two different features of the tile he or she just placed.

There is no mention of the Phantom on the 20th Anniversary page.  Does the Phantom allow a player to place their normal meeple according to the Arrow’s action, then, if the player also has their Phantom available, place their phantom on the Anniversary tile if the feature is unoccupied?

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Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: 20th Anniversary Phantom
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2023, 01:28:49 PM »
Both of the arrow symbol actions start with the wording “Instead of placing a meeple on the tile just placed” which clearly states that you can’t do the action and also place a second meeple on the Anniversary tile.

The Phantom rule for placing a tile is:
After placing a tile, the player may deploy the phantom to it as a second follower (on a second feature).  Thus, in one turn the player may deploy two followers to two different features of the tile he or she just placed.

There is no mention of the Phantom on the 20th Anniversary page.  Does the Phantom allow a player to place their normal meeple according to the Arrow’s action, then, if the player also has their Phantom available, place their phantom on the Anniversary tile if the feature is unoccupied?

Phantom is not mentioned, because it was never released in C2 / C3. So playing with Phantom is mix of semi C3 rules (20th Anniversary) and C1 rules (Phantom).

So as we play also with Phantom, you can place both. But not on the same feature.
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Offline Scott

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Re: 20th Anniversary Phantom
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2023, 03:53:14 AM »
As Bumsakalaka mentioned, the Phantom has not been re-released since the C1 days, so we rely on clarifications from the publisher and opinions from our rules experts.

I defer to others on this, but from what I can see, the Phantom cannot be placed as a Phantom unless another meeple or neutral figure has already been placed, so because the 20th Anniversary tile is giving an alternative to placing a meeple, you also lose out on being able to place a Phantom during that turn. Something to consider when deciding whether to use the tile’s special ability or not!


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Offline PapaGeek

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Re: 20th Anniversary Phantom
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2023, 03:56:52 AM »
Actually, “The Phantom is the only expansion to date that is completely edition independent, in that it can be used with both First Edition and Second (and Third) Edition Carcassonne.”

There are no tiles with the Phantom expansion, so C1, C2, C3 has no meaning.

And “After placing a tile, the player may deploy the phantom to it as a second follower (on a second feature).”

I believe that a “normal” meeple has to be played first according to the 20th Anniversary action, then the phantom can be placed, but only on the 20th Anniversary tile.

The question really comes down to, since the Phantom has to be played second, and it has to be placed on a feature on the tile just placed, if the only meeple that you have when drawing and placing your 20th Anniversary tile is your Phantom, can you place your Phantom on that tile as the first meeple being placed in your turn?



Offline PapaGeek

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Re: 20th Anniversary Phantom
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2023, 04:01:37 AM »
Interesting Scott you were writing your reply as I was writing mine! And with different opinions!

You are saying that you can’t place your Phantom after placing your first meeple per the 20th action!

And it still leaves the question about using your Phantom as your first placed meeple when the Phantom is the only meeple you have at the start of your turn, 20th or any other tile drawn!

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: 20th Anniversary Phantom
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2023, 06:10:45 AM »
As Bumsakalaka mentioned, the Phantom has not been re-released since the C1 days, so we rely on clarifications from the publisher and opinions from our rules experts.

I defer to others on this, but from what I can see, the Phantom cannot be placed as a Phantom unless another meeple or neutral figure has already been placed, so because the 20th Anniversary tile is giving an alternative to placing a meeple, you also lose out on being able to place a Phantom during that turn. Something to consider when deciding whether to use the tile’s special ability or not!


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This is no consistency with regular rules of phantom.
You are still able to place phantom, even if you have no other meeple in supply, or you didn't make any action in regular C2 "2. Place a Meeple" phase.

Only one action disallow to place a meeple is Remove knight by Princess. In rules is exactly written, then after removing you are not able to place any meeple. Phantom including.

Offline Scott

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Re: 20th Anniversary Phantom
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2023, 08:52:09 AM »
When you only have a Phantom, it can be placed as a regular meeple, in which case it’s not acting as a Phantom anymore.


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Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: 20th Anniversary Phantom
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2023, 10:22:38 AM »
When you only have a Phantom, it can be placed as a regular meeple, in which case it’s not acting as a Phantom anymore.


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That's not true. If it will acting as regular meeple, then you will not able to place wooden figure and then phantom.
So if you have phantom, you are still able to do any action in C2/C3 phase '2. Placing a meeple' and then you can place a phantom.
For example: You are able to Score Abbot on unfinished Monastery/Garden and then place Phantom.

In your scenario, when Phantom is acting as regular meeple, then you will not able to do these two actions.


Offline Scott

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Re: 20th Anniversary Phantom
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2023, 09:24:48 PM »
Sorry, it’s very early in the morning here and I’m not following what you’re saying.


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