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Topics - PapaGeek

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Official Rules / Big Top Tower rules
« on: February 14, 2022, 01:51:47 PM »
If we play with Exp 4: The Tower and Exp 10: Under the Big Top, and the player before me places the 8th tile around an Acrobat tile and also places the third acrobat on the tile, can I now place another floor on a nearby tower so I can capture one of the three acrobats, leaving the other two acrobats trapped until the end of the game, or until those players also use a tower to get their meeples back?

Other Games / Avalon Hill Board Games
« on: February 11, 2022, 08:47:22 AM »
We are in the process of replacing our second floor carpet with hardwood, and while cleaning up all of the clutter we came across two boxes of Avalon Hill board games from the 1970’s and 1980’s.  Is this the best place on line to sell antique games, or where else should I look.  Have no idea on the proper pricing, none of them are “mint in box”, they have all been played multiple times!

Official Rules / Legal ways to un-trap.
« on: January 25, 2022, 05:15:02 AM »
As we continue to play Carcassonne, some of the players are getting more aggressive.  They take longer to place their tiles as they look harder for ways to trap the meeples of other players.  Some of the players are keeping up with the aggression and others are not.

To avoid the collapse of the group, I’m looking for the best ways to, by the rules, defend against an aggressive player’s trapping strategy.

From the rules of the expansions we have so far: one sure way is the Abbey which can be placed in any four sided hole, Bridges can sometimes be used to alter one side of a trap, and Halflings can be used to convert a four sided trap into a two sided hole that might be easier to fill.

Are there any other official ways to defend against an aggressive player who is trapping players who are just trying to have fun with the game?

Unofficial Rules / Avoiding Analysis Paralysis
« on: January 21, 2022, 10:38:29 AM »
The third House Rule on the WikiCarPedia Base Game page says: "Take your next tile at the end of your turn, to give you time to think about placement and avoid analysis paralysis".

As our inclusion of additional expansions grows, we  suffer from analysis paralysis just about every game! 

A question for anyone who follows this house rule, how to you make this house rule interact with the rules for playing a Halfling or Abbey instead of drawing a tile?  The rules for those expansion say that you have to decide on playing the Halfling or Abbey BEFORE you draw your next tile!

Did you just say that playing the alternative tile comes AFTER drawing it, or do you do something else?

Official Rules / Castle Scoring
« on: January 13, 2022, 02:39:16 AM »
One of the rules that apply to castles on the WikiCarPedia page for Bridges, Castles and Bazaars is:

Two or more incomplete castles may be standing next to each other. If one of them scores points, it will be considered as a completed feature for the adjacent castles. All the castle owners receive the same number of points.

Footnote 18 example

This is the image that follows that rule, modified so that tile 1 is now an inverted tile 3!

The Wiki example talks about the scoring when Red places the tile on the right that completes the city.  My question deals with the blue numbers on the left side of the image.

If, before red places his tile, blue places a tile in square 4 that completes a castle to the left of Red’s Castle: as I understand the rule, the new blue castle is not considered a completed feature so Red’s castle remains on the board.

The Wiki illustration for footnote 18 uses a second castle that exists between tile 2 and 3, so tile 6 is part of both castles scoring fields.  In my example Blue’s tile 6 does not touch the city that is being completed, but it does touch Red’s castle that will score points when the city is completed.

So, when Red completes Blue’s city, which completes Red’s Castle, Red and Blue will each get 16 points. But, does the completion of Red’s castle also give Blue an additional 16 points for his castle?

And if that is true, does Red get 16 points while blue gets 32 points or do they both get 16 points or do they both get 32 points???

General / Help—I need help with acronyms
« on: January 12, 2022, 01:50:51 PM »
The game of Carcassonne was designed by Klaus-Jürgen Wrede and published in 2000 by Hans im Glück in German and by Rio Grande Games (until 2012) and Z-Man Games (currently) in English.

Our group of 4 neighborhood friends started hosting weekly game nights due to COVID and we were introduced to Carcassonne in June of 2021, so, we are definitely relative newbies.  My earliest recommendations to the on line groups was that all of the boxes sold should include a label: Warning: this game is extremely addictive!

Within the last 7 months, our weekly games have grown from the content of Big Box 6 to also include Expansion 5: Abbey and the Mayor plus Expansion 8: Bridges, Castles, and Bazaars plus the Halflings Minor Expansion. And our newest inclusions are River II and Expansion 3: Princess and Dragon which we had to order from Norway in November and it did not arrive until January 2022!

Our first attempt to play the expansion was based on the printed rules that came in 3 Nordic languages and the latest PDF from Z-man Games, but we also went on line to the forums where some of the posts seemed to contradict the printed rules!

As we went on line to ask questions, a lot of the responses from long standing members used abbreviations like: WICA, C1, C2, CAR, HiG, C1 rules, C2 rules, BB3, RGG and ZMG! And I’m sure there are other abbreviations that are normally used that we didn’t see!

So, here is my request as a newbie!  The Carcassonne Central forum home page includes a link for Help.  Is it possible for the advanced members to include two more items in the bulleted list of subpages?

The first would be a list of abbreviations.  I assume that C1 and C2 represent two separate phases that the game has gone through over time, when did the change happen and what caused it; do we see another change coming?  Plus what all of the other abbreviations mean.

The second would be a list of links to PDFs of the printed rules for each expansion in each phase.

No need to comment on this, but here is an example of how this type of information might be helpful to other newbies.  After making our posts, reading the current rules, and doing personal Google research into Carcassonne history, this is a link to the recommendations that our personal game night group will consider before playing Princess and Dragon this weekend!

Official Rules / Who changed the Dragon rules, and why?
« on: January 10, 2022, 01:07:24 AM »
In my current post about the Princess and Dragon expansion, a lot of the talk was about why the player who draws a Dragon Tile has the right to move the Fairy BEFORE moving the Dragon.  This one issue completely undermines the strategy and logic for when to sacrifice meeple placement so you can move the Fairy on your other turns during the game!

The PDF of the English version of the rules clearly shows that moving the Dragon is part of phase 1 of a player’s turn: 1. Placing a tile, then 1b. The dragon moves!

And when talking about the Fairy the printed English rules clearly show that “The fairy moves” is clearly part of phase 2, “Placing a meeple”. and that moving the dragon is part of phase 1b.

To me, as a relative newbie, this clearly states that moving the dragon is part of placing the tile and that moving the fairy is part of placing a meeple.  Since phase 1 has to happen before phase 2, you can’t move the fairy before you move the dragon.  This is one of the first things that we learn when we start playing Carcassonne, you can’t place a meeple on a tile in Phase 2 if you don’t have any meeples to place until after you score some points in phase 3.  You have to do the phases in order!

FYI: We tried to purchase an English version of Princess and Dragon back in November, but none were available so we purchased and received our Nordic version in early January.  That version comes with printed rule in 3 languages, all 3 languages, Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish label “The dragon flies” as phase 1a.  and yes, the English version labels it as 1b, but ALL of the printed rules say that moving the dragon is part of phase 1.

Then we come to the WikiCarPedia version of the “Official Rules”.

The website has clearly moved “The Dragon Moves” from Phase 1a or 1b to Phase 2b.  In this “modified” version of the printed rules, the person who draws the Dragon tile can Phase 2 place a meeple or move the Fairy before Phase 2b moving the dragon!

We all know that all 3 Phases of your move have to be completed in order.  Changing the Dragon movement from Phase 1 to Phase 2 definitely allows the player who draws and places the Dragon tile to move the Fairy BEFORE moving the Dragon!

Who made the decision to move the Dragon Movement to Phase 2, and if this is an official move, why are all 3 of the printed versions of the rules that I received in January 2022 still saying that moving the dragon is part of Phase 1?

Official Rules / The Dragon and the Fairy
« on: January 07, 2022, 09:42:40 PM »
We played our first Princess and Dragon expansion tonight, and one question was in the front of everyone’s mind. When you place the Dragon tile, if you do not place a meeple, can you move the Fairy before the Dragon moves?

Just did a Google search on the subject and got a lot of conflicting answers, and WikiCarPedia does not give a definite answer either.

Item 2. Placing a meeple says: You may place a meeple on a Dragon tile, unlike Volcano tiles. Then the dragon moves.

 Then 2b. The dragon moves: the very first words are: Starting with the active player and proceeding clockwise, players take turns moving the dragon one space at a time (vertically or horizontally) until the dragon has moved 6 spaces or is unable to move.

The Fairy portion of the page talks says: The fairy moves: On any turn in which you do not place (or move) a meeple, you may assign the fairy to one of your meeples by placing the fairy directly next to it.

OK, it is not specific!  If placing the dragon includes the 6 moves of the dragon and one of the dragon moves causes a meeple to be “moved” from the board back into a player’s supply, then you would not be entitled to move the fairy.

There are a number of “Additional clarifications” on the WikiCarPedia page, and there are a number of conflicting answers to this question on various website for the Google search: What is the official ruling on this question?

Can I place a dragon tile, then move the Fairy from another player’s meeple onto my meeple for my personal protection BEFORE the dragon moves?

The Marketplace / The status of Z-Man Games
« on: December 29, 2021, 05:33:19 AM »
Does anyone know the status of Z-Man Games?

As I understand it, they have the contract for printing Carcassonne games for the US, but when I go to their website, which connects me to their selling website,, they list 9 of the 10 expansions, who cares about the catapult, and all 9 of the expansions are “out of stock”.

Is there anyone else who is printing Carcassonne games for the US market?

Unofficial Rules / The Art of the Un-Trap
« on: December 25, 2021, 03:17:51 PM »
The first subject discussed in Chapter 8 (advanced features) in The Book of Carcassonne is The Art of the Trap, which is closely followed by the discussion on digging holes!

Our neighborhood group of four started playing   in June of 2021.  Two of us are well into the art of the trap which is causing the other two to start talking about other games.  Carcassonne does offer the Abbey and Mayor expansion that completely eliminates the traps, and also Halflings which basically cuts the traps in half, and of course the Bridges that do provide a little help in breaking out of a trap: but we are still looking for other ways for our more gentle players to un-trap themselves.

So, here is what we are thinking!

We wanted to start using Bridges a few months ago, and since Z-Man Games has basically stopped producing Carcassonne Expansions for the US market, we had to create the bridges for ourselves.  So, we got a piece of three eighth inch square oak trim from Lowes and cut it into 1 ¾ inch strips to use as the Fake Bridges.

Then, we recently read a post by kothmann where he talked about the Gates and Walls that he created as part of his personal Old City Expansion.  Basically, when a city tile, with a pennant, exists next to an empty space, you can place a Wall on the edge of the city and then place a field tile next to it, or, you can place a Gate on the edge of the city and then place a road tile next to it.

The ability to use Gates and/or Walls and/or Bridges to modify the four sides of the trap makes the probability of filling the hole far more possible.

Our basic game usually includes 125 tiles: 71 basic game tiles, 12 river tiles, 18 Inns and Cathedrals tiles, and 24 Trader and Builder tiles . . . plus 4 of our fake wooden bridges for each player, which we will now probably rename as Tile Modifiers, which can be used as either Bridges, Gates, or Walls as the game progresses.  We will not restrict the use of Gates and Walls to only cities with pennants, but we will restrict them to only city tiles that touch four sided holes, like the Abbey tile restriction.

Here is the page on our personal Carcassonne website that talks about this personal Expansion in more detail:

Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.  Again, our target is to help less aggressive players ease into the Art of the Trap with an easier way out of the traps as they get used to making them!

General / Personal Websites
« on: December 24, 2021, 08:40:56 AM »
Has anyone else created a personal Carcassonne website for their local group of players?

We use ours to discuss potential house rules, and to strip down the universal sites to just the expansions that we are currently using.

Our group only started playing Carcassonne in June of 2021.

The only thing we would highly recommend is that all of the game boxes have a warning label, "the contents of this box are highly addictive"!

PS: I have been told that I can list our sites URL since we are not selling anything on it.  The URL is:

Just changed the URL to one of our favorite intro pages!

Strategy Guide / Opening Traps
« on: December 20, 2021, 07:30:02 PM »
The first section in Chapter 8: Advanced Strategy in The Book of Carcassonne is "The Art of the Trap".

The book also talks about some complex strategies to avoid traps, and I do know of two expansions that are good for undoing traps: The Abbey tile which is a complete 4 sided trap removal, and the Halflings that alter the 4 sided trap into a 2 sided trap.

Are there any other expansions that help to defend against traps?

Official Rules / Can I place more than one Bridge?
« on: December 20, 2021, 12:39:11 PM »
If you look at the words on the WikiCarPedia page, they basically say only one bridge, but their last example brings up the question of multiple bridges!

WikiCarPedia Quotes:

Just like in the base game, you must place tiles so that its edges match the edges of the tiles already in play. After placing a tile, you may place one bridge, which counts as a road and connects roads over features or meeples on that tile.

You can place a bridge on the tile you just placed, or on a tile touching the tile you just placed. When placing a bridge, you must place both ends in a field, and it must be placed facing either left-to-right or up-to-down (it cannot be placed diagonally across the tile). Once placed, a bridge remains on that tile until the end of the game.

You can place a tile so that a road ends against a field, but you must place a bridge that continues the road on that same turn. You can use multiple bridges in a row along the same road, but each tile can have a maximum of only one bridge on it. Bridges can be placed on tiles with meeples on them.

The first two examples are relatively clear, placing a single tile, then placing a single bridge on either the tile you just placed, or the tile next to it.

The last example is not clear at all!  It does not include a tilted tile that was just placed or an image with arrows on either bridge being placed! Is it an example of “you may place one bridge” from the first paragraph?  Blue places the Monastery which requires placing one bridge over it to follow the words in the last paragraph “You can use multiple bridges in a row along the same road”!
              - or -
Is it showing how the RFRF tile AND the Monastery tile already existed without the bridges on either tile when a player draws the CRRF tile that will allow them to complete the city which cannot be seen above these example tiles. Is it an example of “You can use multiple bridges in a row along the same road” as long as there is only one bridge per tile, or, does the “you may place one bridge” in the first paragraph say that this is illegal?

Unofficial Rules / Combining River I and River II
« on: December 11, 2021, 10:04:45 AM »
The 12 River I Tiles create a significant feature when you are also playing with the 71 standard Land Tiles in the Basic Game.  But, they lose some of that significance when you add 18 Inns and Cathedrals Tiles plus/or 24 Traders and Builders Tiles to the game.  This has led our group to consider the addition of the additional 12 River II Tiles to the game.

When you combine the River I and River II tiles you end up with: 2 source spring tile, 1 T fork tile, 10 straight river tiles, 8 river turn tiles, and 3 river termination lake tiles (1 plain, 1 with a city, and 1 with a Volcano).

The WikiCarPedia suggestions for combining River I and River II suggest things like:
  • Starting with the fork and working back to the springs and lakes.
  • Starting with the lake city tile and working back (with random fork placement) to both springs.
The Volcano has little meaning with the basic or big box game rivers, but throw in the extra 30 tiles from the Princess and Dragon expansion and things get really interesting!

You can’t place a meeple on River II’s Lake Volcano tile because the Dragon has to go there and it will eat your meeple!  If a player decides to end one of the 3 river paths with the Volcano, should they get a Volcano second turn, similar to the builder second turn?

So, on to the reason for this post!  What unofficial house rules do you use when combining the River I and River II tiles, and what changes do you make to those rules when you also include the Princess and the Dragon?

General / Random Tiles
« on: December 05, 2021, 09:15:42 AM »
When our neighborhood group found Carcassonne in June of 2021, we each bought the 2017 Big Box version of the game.  One of the major features that we all loved about the game was how each player would draw a “random” tile from the pile each turn.  There was no way to get an advantage, no one was allowed to peek at their tile!

After a while we started buying other expansions and were somewhat disappointed by the fact that some of the backs of some of the expansions were slightly a different color.  We looked into using a bag instead of just leaving the tile upside down on the table, then decided to just create 4 random stacks of tiles that each player would grab, pick up half the stack, then “randomly” drop the middle tile on the table without being able to see if there was a slight color difference.

Now we are reading a number of posts that “The tiles have rounded corners, which is slightly odd” and “But the uptick in the quality of printing on the new tiles, including the rounded corners is also nice.”

We are extremely concerned! Will these new tile be noticeable different that the existing tiles? If I look at the backs of the tiles upside down on a table, can I see the difference?  If I reach into a bag, can I feel the difference?  If the answer is yes, why would anyone want to remove one of the primary features of the game, you draw a “random” tile each turn?

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