C3 Artwork Discussion.

[chris6507]

Hey all,
I'm sure this has been discussed in the past and I have searched prior to creating a thread (unsuccessfull). I know it's been a couple of years now, but I keep wondering why? When it comes to the C3 artwork. The old style whether C1 or C2 with the building in the centre worked perfect and I just don't understand who thought it would be a good idea to fill up these cities so much that they're all cut off and looking dumb where they're joined.
Have the artists ever or developers ever answered this question as to why? Is there a general consensus as to whether this is an appreciated change in the community or universally hated? Just feels like such a downgrade to me of something that was perfect and just hoping to hear some other thoughts on it if people are inclined to share?

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6529.0

[NGC 54]

I am not a fan of the clipped buildings. They are not so noticeable while playing, though. I am not a fan of the crossless monasteries, too. But the other C3 differences are generally OK.

[BBG]

My hostility towards the C3 style is unmitigated. I dislike the overcrowded cities with all myself and I hate the fact that the continuity among buildings is broken between two tiles.
No idea if some official reason has been released but I'm quite sure the actual one was "We have to make some changes so people will spend more money on our products" but Carcassonne doesn't have that much graphical elements to shake up so this happened:

• Roads are impossibile to change and they remained the same
• Monasteries are monasteries, what to change? So they just got the cross out of the roof, for a little bit of unnecessary politically correctness
• Colours are a mess anyway, every producer use their tones of green and brown according to who knows what reason
• What remains? Cities! What's in the city? Buildings! Let's change them!

Add some bushes here and there and here we go: C3 is on the table.

[lr]

Yes, C3 is very Bad  the best art is CI 

[Meepledrone]

Ha ha ha! This sounds like an echo of the ranting about C2 when it came out...

[chris6507]

Ha ha ha! This sounds like an echo of the ranting about C2 when it came out...

I'll have to try and track that down and see how that went!  I don't have a problem with any of the "Art" in any of the versions. I have a soft spot for C1, but that's my original and always will be. The art on C2 and C3 are completely fine, but just feel unnecessary as C1 was perfectly fit for purpose.
Glad to see i'm not the only bothered by the clipped buildings. Just feels like an unnecessary update that has all cons and no pros on its side. I'm sure there's someone patting themself on the back for this update, but i'd be very interested to know what was going on in some peoples heads?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts though. :-)

[Decar]

Moritz Brunnhofer has said that Carcassonne needed a refresh and so it happened.  I think people need to remember that you're talking about a group of people's professional work.  Someone's been given a direction, and then spent a great deal of time refreshing the C2 artwork, before it's been reviewed by lots of other people who get to make a decision over what HiG's product looks like.

C3 is marked by the a change of artist. When I spoke with Anne Pätzke many years ago, the grossly opinioned and frankly rude community commentary had made its way back to her.  Some years has passed, and it seems like the majority of the community accepts that C2 was the artwork.  Things need to be modernized to remain relevant.  Remember: If you don't like it, you aren't required to keep purchasing it.  I'm sure the changes made to C3 allowed the new artist to become familiar with the work.

Looking at C2 - I've never been to a city where there are 60 foot gaps between houses, demarking the sides of an arbitrary square every 100-200 feet.

[chris6507]

You say though if you don't like it, don't purchase it? It's not all that simple as you might really like the expansion mechanics even though you don't like the art. So it's not just as simple as just not buying an action figure you don't like.
I suppose also while you may not have seen buildings hundreds of feet apart, I've also never been in a city with building who's roof merges into the wall of their neighbour or a city that gets split up into perfect squares. So personally i find a little distance between buildings slightly more realistic and aesthetically pleasing than Picasso's city.
And just for clarification I've personally ever criticised "the artwork", merely the decision to clip buildings at the edges.
Also can i just say that artwork on tiles like Wonders of Humanity and  are absolutely beautiful artwork. They're just ruined by the clipped cities. 

[Decar]

I wasn't necessarily directing my response to you Chris6507, I hope it didn't feel that way.

If the Wonders of Humanities have been ruined by such a travesty, I guess that means you won't be purchasing it.
I really do think the decision is that simple. You either want to pay for the product as it is, or you decide there's enough wrong with it that you decide not to.
If you buy it, you're confirming to the publisher that the benefits of the product outweigh any issues you have.

I can't wait for the Escher expansion - I'm sure C3 will fit right in

[chris6507]

I wasn't necessarily directing my response to you Chris6507, I hope it didn't feel that way.

You're all good. I'm fine, all just good discussion. And no, Wonders of humanity isn't bad enough that i wouldn't get it as i already have it. And while I'm a C1 guy all the way I am fine with the C2 and C3 artwork, the whole point of my original question was just to gauge how people felt about C3.

I felt it was a downgrade and that C2 was much cleaner and nicer looking and was trying to understand why the change? It hasn't changed enough to make it new and fresh, just enough in my opinion to look more cluttered and messy. And i was wondering if there was something said or different opinions that might help me see things differently. I've had movies like Batman Begins go from a movie that i hated to one i really like from listening to other opinions and explanations and wondered if this could be a similiar thing. Doesn't seem to be the case though.

Definitely C3 isn't bad enough that i wouldn't buy it, but i still look at it and question why the designers saw it as necessary. Would have no issues with more or different buildings. Just the buildings being cut off i find visually problematic. Probably a sore point as i only have C3 Winter edition and it makes my gingerbread tiles not fit in very well aesthetically.

[Death Meeple]

Well if you want opinions... I like C3.
Explanation is easy: I started playing recently, so I started with a C3 edition, this is my reference.

I like the details but I agree, it sometimes leads to strange house appearance and that's a bit sad.

Also, most extensions are now C2, so adding them to my C3 game also makes some mismatch and it's disappointing. Worse is the case where I add C1 tiles to it (old extensions, or even the stand alone wheel of fortune I added to the game), i have to say the result isn't really nice...

I'd highly prefer having everything in the same style, but some expansions won't be edited again, so we don't have much choice than getting these strange designs match...

Also, I agree about the fact C2 and C3 are so close looking, it wasnt worth the update...

[Decar]

I'd quite happily intermix C1 to C3, with fan-made tiles, and anything else if it meant that the game was interesting to play.

I had some minor issues with the initial C2 layout, because my brain with inadvertently separate areas of continuous features, but I now feel C3 addressed those issues. Specifically, the towers of the cloisters in C2 were too close to the tile edge in my opinion.  C2 also adds more contrast which helps brains isolate features; I made some comparisons using colour-blind filters which demonstrate this. I think C3 takes this further.

I think having a new artist and allowing them to explore and update the existing artwork, and add their own spin on it is important.  I think the comparisons in the German Castles/Cathedrals are better examples to demonstrate C3, compared to simply focusing on an aspect of cities.

I find it quite interesting how the audience has changed. When C2 initially came out, some members of the community were in uproar around how terrible it was.  Now that C2 has been around nearly as long as C1 ever was, most of the community accept it as staple, and don't like seeing changes happen to that either.

I agree that if you use C2, it isn't worth going out of your way to upgrade to C3. HiG hasn't recommended this.  I'm quite happy to accept that the artwork of Carcassonne is something fluid. It doesn't significantly change the game I enjoy playing.  In 150 years I suspect the artwork will look different, and there won't be any tree's left to make the tiles; we'll probably have to use clay to make tiny tablets.  I suspect the rules will be mostly the same, although perhaps a 2-tile city will be worth 5 points.

[kheller2]

I do not have much experience with the different versions, however I can say that I prefer the C3 round tiles vs the C3 square tiles.  The round tiles, like those in the 20th edition, are also smoother with less ridge lines through the image.

If anyone wants to swap my C3 square for their C3 round big box 2021 let me know. LOL.