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Messages - Bumsakalaka
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1051
« on: February 01, 2021, 11:18:58 AM »
As I know, Rio Grande published C1 design and Z-Man C2 design. So I guess design will not match.
C2 Rivers was never published as standalone expansion, only as part of Basic game or Big Box 2017 (River I) or as part of expansion 6 King, Robber and river (River II).
River III was never published in C2.
River I have no junction, River II has. River II has also Volcano on last tile. so when playing with Dragon, dragon is ready for eat meeples from beginning. This change strategy (when no playing Dragon, it's just printed element on tile).
But usually players have both rivers and make decision every game, if play River I, River II, River I+II or without river. Then every game is different.
1052
« on: February 01, 2021, 06:06:12 AM »
I think that shepherd scoring still occurs in 2C. Johannes only said that the shepherd scoring is considered if you want to send a meeple in Carcassonne. So, if you want to send a meeple in Carcassonne, you consider all points received in 1C-3C.
I'll be Devil's Advocate hare. But I think that intention of Message is to give bonus not for players which scores but player which finished feature. Their interpretation is that scoring message is defined in step 3. Scoring a Feature - so it's only for scoring here. Simplifying of all steps only to 4 divisions are mayme not so usefull for us (players), but usefull for them (HiG) 
1053
« on: February 01, 2021, 12:15:01 AM »
But I also have other 30 we won't be able to ask. 
We will see. Because, by some good question we can find guidlines their current approach for rules by HiG. Good example is: Will be points by Fruit Breating Fruits selling consider for receiving a message (Mini 2: Messages). We will never get now regular answer because of rules between two minis. But If we get answer to Mini 2: That every points are counted, or Only scoring defined in Phase 3 are counted - Due to Abbot. Then we will have guidlines. For this will be also good to reorder your questions and ask some which can solve possible future issues.
1054
« on: February 01, 2021, 12:10:50 AM »
It will be good to write some Header over all pages that some review is required during new Hig Rules Clarrification which have to been prooven but some other HiG rules speaker, if for Johanes is Carcassonne a "Precambrian game" 
1055
« on: February 01, 2021, 12:09:32 AM »
Well. This guy was set by HiG to resolve question about rules question on Official Discord Channel. He answer question of Discord at least of 26. August 2020 - maybe earlier, but I register there at +- these days. So I can't proof it also before, (if discord show messages also before registration or not)
1056
« on: January 31, 2021, 11:56:24 AM »
And I hope German monasteries are part of "monasteries" eligible for ringmaster bonus when they replace the base game monasteries ! (if placed as an abbot of course) 
HiG Johanes was very strict here: Q: So it considers the ringmaster points only for features in the base game... What about shrines or abbeys, then? Are they excluded? We are considering all monastic buildings (monasteries, abbeys, shrines, German monasteries...) as equivalent features. We understood this sentence was referring only to the meeple strength... Not that it was not providing ringmaster points in other features. A: no it's referring to everything. Otherwise you will run into problems (like the castle), because there are no 8 tiles sorrounding it. Same thing would apply to German monasteries. But this is a interaction between big expansion and minis again :wink:
1057
« on: January 31, 2021, 11:51:05 AM »
Prisoner ransom? You lose points (although it is said that you cannot receive points, but it is not said if you can lose points) but somebody else receives.
This is true, but those points get player not in his turn, in yours. And you can receive for example message only in your turn.
1058
« on: January 31, 2021, 03:42:21 AM »
Well it's good to define adjacent tiles for feature tile as key word for rules.
Then adjacent tiles for monastery 9
Adjacent tiles for Double sides tiles 12
Adjacent tiles for Castle 6.
Anyway where can goes wagon When scoring Castle in C2 rules?
By mine deduction to any of 6 adjacent tiles.
This logic can be used for Ringmaster etc. For Variant where Ringmaster still can get his bonus.
Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku
1059
« on: January 30, 2021, 07:23:27 AM »
That's true. But HiG devide game to 4 phases. Message receiving is defined in phase 3. So by interpretation of rules by HiG it's mean, that only scoring defined in phase 3 (almost can be started in different phase, but defined in phase 3, like Abbot) are consifer for receive a message at end of phase 3. It's mean, that any scoring in rules written in Phase 1 (tile placement), Phase 2 (meeple placement), Phase 4 (Bazaar action) are not relevant for receiving message. This is fridays statement, so we will see future negotiations
1060
« on: January 30, 2021, 06:18:28 AM »
We will see. Abbot looks like points are given in phase 3 by rules.
But there are some more situation which has to be solved for "large" expansions and big box. So I hope that they'll be answered without sime answer: Mini Expansions combined with other expansion will create questions and loopholes, we haven't thought about. Therefore we can't answer those.
1061
« on: January 30, 2021, 01:51:10 AM »
So bad news. Yesterday we has a long discussion on Hig Discord about rules for messages. We are glad, that this mini is part of Big Box 2017, and for this HiG answered couple of question.
But mine conclusion for it is:
Receiving Message is bonus for player who score during phase Scoring feature - red phase in printed rules.
All other bonuses scored on different phase (Place tile / Place wood) are not consider for get message to current player!
So for receiving message is important, that your scoring meeples are moving and finish on dark space of scoring board only in Phase Scoring a Feature (movement before this phase is not relevant).
It's mean you your score will be consider if:
1. You get bonus +3 for Fairy when finished feature with your meeple with Fairy is assignet to one of your meeple on that feature
(etc)
You will not receiving message and your movement will not be consider for receiving message:
1. +1 Fairy bonus on begin of turn
2. Bonuses for Fruit bearing trees - this scoring is defined in phase (Placing of Meeple)
3. Bonus for proper placing wind rose tile in correct quadrant (half of board - depends on version of windroses) - this scoring is defined in phase (Placing a Tile)
(etc)
So big mess.
Due to Ringmaster issue with German Monasteries I'm affraid to ask how is solving message: Score smallest monastery when plaing German monastery - I suppose answer will be: you get always 2 points because German monastery is not Basic Game Monastery.
1062
« on: January 28, 2021, 06:13:52 AM »
So it seems that the ringmaster only provides ringmaster points when placed on the following features:
- Roads
- Cities
- Monasteries
- Fields (even when scored due to a barn - only case admitted in the rules)
"- Monasteries" - even if they are placed on tiles from other expansions (without taking in consideration abbeys, shrines, Darmstadt churches, German monasteries)?
"There is a edge case mentioned for expansion 5 but not for 8." - "expansion 5"? The wagon uses similar rules?
I think that this clarification is how it is because this is the simplest way; no effort from HiG in explaining what happens with castles and German castles (the only 2 cases where there are less or more than 9 tiles).
You're right. German Castles needs an extra clarification too.
Current clarification is clear and today confirmed also for replacing monasteries with Japanese buildings bundled in Carcassonne J edition: This question is already answered above. For every other expansion, the ringmaster is a normal meeple.
But again, this is a question regarding the combination of several expansions, including a mini.
So Discrosuler: ringmaster bonus can be only when standing on Road as Knight / City as Thieft / Field as Farmer and (Basic game) Monastery as Monk. Nothing less, nothing more. Clarification with Barn just solve issue, that Ringmaster is placed on Field as Farmer, which is allowed and Barn is placed or two fields when on one is Barn. Rules says, that when solve placement of Barn or join field with field with Barn, Ringmaster as Farmer gets his bonus points. Well. Easy and clear. Why this: For me, they avaid to solve issue, like Monastery / Shrine fight (Ringmaster placed on loosed Shrine) - anyway, what if stays in Monastery? - by basic rules, when monastery finished, Ringmaster get's bonus - doesn't matter if get's 9 or 0 points. Castles - 6 tiles, German Castle - 10 adjacent tiles, Road to Leipzig - 7 adjacent tiles etc. Why they what to Ringmaster to loose his bonus also from abbey, darmstadt church, German Cathedrals, German Monasteries? I don't know here. With other features where adjacent tiles is different that 8 can be simplication that all of adjacent tiles depends on feature (Castle 6, Double tiles 10, etc) - simple. But as you see. HiG are not so happy to solve issue with rules.
1063
« on: January 28, 2021, 05:59:29 AM »
Yes you are rights. It's just "crop" of 9 tiles possitions from whole game.
As you mention, topleft regular tile can not stand this way alone.
1064
« on: January 28, 2021, 02:53:02 AM »
But honestly, is there anyone who can understand the behaviour and attitude of HiG in this matter? These topics are discussed on this forum already for years now. If they had any respect for their fanbase, why didn't they intervene and helped us spontanously?
There could be two options:
(i) They read it, saw it, but just didn't care.
(ii) They didn't read anything on this forum dedicated to Carcassonne
I don't know which option I would consider the worst...
I own more than 350 different games. Also with other games, sometimes I have questions concerning some rules. When you go to the forum of BGG, in 95% of the cases you can find the answers easily, mostly because the designers or publishers are participating on the forums and just clarify how the games should be played.
There were a few cases in which I could not find the answer. When I contacted the author or publisher, I always received a clear personal answer within a week!
On that same BGG site, as on many different other sites dedicated to boardgames, our forum and WICA are praised and linked as the holy bible of Carcassonne. Then can someone explain to me why HiG and their complete team let us struggle for so long with our questions? They should feel awfully ashamed!
This is good question to Hig but also to Klaus-Jürgen Wrede. It will be good to ask them in some video interview 
1065
« on: January 27, 2021, 11:52:29 PM »
Now stating that you only get a bonus for a base game feature is really stupid. You get the bonus for a monastery, but not for an abbey, shrine, etc., features that work according to the exact same mechanics. Where is the logic behind this?
And what about German Monasteries/Dutach(Belgian) Monasteries/Japanese Buildings. Direct in rules are, that you have to remove original Monasteries and replace them with new one. Then Ringmaster not applies for German Monasteries, because it's expansion, event that replace basic game feature?
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