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Messages - Whaleyland

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1471
I was going to say don't worry about it, but I want my title back. Since I've only authored two things, I don't really like the "Authors" title. I'd prefer my old quasi-noble one.

Edit: Hmm. Nevermind. Apparently I've been ported over anyway. And I have my title. lol. I guess I was just missing the Moderator icon.

1472
General / Re: Fictitious Box Images
« on: February 18, 2013, 09:31:22 AM »
Experiment #2:

Also pretty good, though I think the bottom color bar should be a different color than the existing minis.

1474
Official Rules / Re: Priority: Need Links to New CAR
« on: February 14, 2013, 08:49:45 AM »
It's funny Scott likes that background because makes me think of a Magic Eye. In any case, it's better than nothing. Maybe a thin border of some sort would complete it. In any case, it looks better. I'd still like to see Count, King & Cult included, in German for now with it swapped for the Z-Man version when it releases eventually. I guess since Corn Circles, Tunnel & Plague got cancelled, we can't include that art. A shame, really... Anyway, yup, it looks better. Add the missing box and I'll be content for now.

1475
Official Rules / Re: Priority: Need Links to New CAR
« on: February 13, 2013, 04:52:32 PM »
I wasn't a huge fan of the new cover either, but I don't find yours much better. And I dislike your perspective on CK&C. It was technically included in Big Box (3?) under the English version of its name and Z-Man Games will likely be releasing it as a box expansion rather than individual minis. Also, I prefer there to be some form of a background for the rules. Yours is a bit...minimalist.

1476
Official Rules / Re: Rules Questions for Hans im Glück Thread
« on: February 13, 2013, 04:23:46 PM »
Q: What is the follower included with The Messages depicting? Is it a female meeple?
I can answer at this one since it's in the the official German rules from Hans Im Gleuk:
"... 8 messages, 6 female followers." when referring at what's in the box.

Interesting. The RGG instructions don't mention that: they just say "6 followers". My wife will be disappointed that meeples are once again being genderized.

1477
Official Rules / Re: Rules Questions for Hans im Glück Thread
« on: February 13, 2013, 01:57:41 PM »
Q: When playing with The Messages and The Robber, can a player's Robber follow either Messenger?

1478
Official Rules / Rules Questions for Hans im Glueck Thread
« on: February 13, 2013, 01:56:22 PM »
Please post your questions for Hans im Glueck on this thread. kettlefish will periodically take the questions to her contacts at Hans im Glueck for formal clarification. The responses will be published in the next edition of the Carcassonne Complete Annotated Rules.

Furthermore, kettlefish requests that questions and clarifications be asked IN COLOR.

Questions for Hans im Glueck should be written in BLUE.

kettlefish will strive to find answers to all questions and report them in GREEN.

If the question has already been addressed and is printed or pending printing in the current CAR, a reply will be in TEAL.

If kettlefish is unable to obtain an answer from Hans im Glueck or from the Spielbox, she will reply in RED.

1479
Official Rules / Re: Priority: Need Links to New CAR
« on: February 13, 2013, 10:24:27 AM »
Agreed. I feel the CAR is the lifeblood of the site and the thing Hans im Glück respects most about our group. But getting the current edition in the Files Section at BGG is a must for visibility and for those who don't troll old forums. Perhaps it's time to upload the document as its own instead of using Matt Harper's well-thumbed file. His file has been neglected for years on there, so perhaps it's just time to move on.

In any case, I give two thumbs up to the idea of adding a menu bar link and a sticky link in this forum (just like we had before).

1480
Official Rules / Priority: Need Links to New CAR
« on: February 13, 2013, 09:13:29 AM »
Title says it all. We need to get links to the new version of the Carcassonne CAR up and easily accessible. I can't even find them. Also, we need to get the new edition uploaded to BoardGameGeek. If Matt Harper is still contactable, perhaps he'd be willing to at least continue updating the file on BGG so we can keep the 214+ thumbs the file already has. Otherwise, we should probably ask him to put a notice on his file to go to the currently updated copy.

1481
Reviews & Session Reports / The Barbarian Report: MEGA MINI MAYHEM!!!
« on: February 12, 2013, 10:27:09 AM »
Chaos reigns in the County of Carcassonne. Mages and witches have moved in just as gold is discovered in the hills. Robbers ply their trade on unsuspecting travelers while messengers crowd the roads. Ferries clog the waterways even while flight is achieved overhead. And rumors abound of crop circles appearing in fields throughout the land. Carcassonne is no longer safe...

Prologue
In a short hour and a half last night, I ventured down the path of mayhem by combining all six minis plus both Corn Circles expansions. After having tested out the minis individually, I felt that each was designed in such a way that they limit their conflicts with other expansions. But even as the tiles were tossed in the draw bag and the other materials were set aside, I could see that the scoreboard would become a confusing morass of followers and followed.

Early Defeats
The game began with a raucous thud. The first tile out was a Flyer, with no real prospect for use. The second brought out the Robbers early, but the third also was a Robber tile, again proving to be a dud. As the game progressed, a long stream of vanilla tiles appeared, pushing the stream of expansion tiles to the end of the game. Cities were built, fields were claimed, and everything was set for confusion.

Crashed Fliers
The Fliers were the first expansion to bottom out. Used only once and just to tie for a long road, most of the tiles were brought out when no situations presented themselves for theft. Flyer tiles became field connectors, eventually merging one large field that spanned most of the board. Their original purpose was lost as heavy winds batted the courageous fliers from the sky.

Communist Gold
Another victim of bad luck and worse strategy became the Goldmines. Placed across the table, the gold bricks shone elegantly, but their wealth was dispersed. One-by-one, my wife claimed the treasure, but when her thirst was only whetted, I took the remainder, eventually tying and canceling out any bonus from the gold. The instructions sat at the corner of the table, scoreboard visible but ultimately useless. The gold rush was over and both players were left wanting.

Ferries to Nowhere
The Ferries had a better life, but their use declined as focus shifted toward cities and fields. Most of the Ferries came out in the middle game, and they were moved rarely if at all. A few large roads early on proved to be fought over, but the last five ferries were clearly in my wife's camp, and I didn't dispute her claim. Only once did I claim a Ferry-road, and that was more by accident than strategy.

The Sinful Habits of Traveling Mages
While the Mage and Witch appeared about mid-game, they rarely roamed the board for long. The Mage was used like a common Las Vegas streetwalker then discarded just as quickly, his bonus points added to the scoreboard. The Witch languished on one feature then another, only being used at the end of the game. While the Mage decisively gave me an edge in scoring three times, the Witch did little to hurt any player and ended up on a feature shared between us.

Robbers Among the Messengers
Robbers descended on the scoreboard early, but did not remain for long. Smart scoring ensured that my wife only ever received two points (from small cities) from her Robber, while she decided that since she has two followers on the scoreboard, she could just never move the one that was being tailed. Both strategies worked in the end, but one made the Robber and extra Follower worthless to her, while the other meant I never profited once off my Robber. Oddly, the Messages were about evenly claimed but neither of us used a Message for a decisive purpose. For whatever reason, whenever the Message was drawn, the last feature of that type had just been completed, triggering the scoring that triggered the Message being drawn. It was a vicious cycle that saw more default 2-point Messages claimed than I would have predicted. The "immediately score one follower then remove" Message was only drawn once and used to good effect -- my wife was out of followers. But that was the only time a Message was used well. In the end, the Robbers profited little and the Messages only slightly more.

Fight on the Scoreboard
Somewhere in the mayhem of Messengers and Robbers, however, the scoring itself came under peril. Circling the board, it was difficult to remember which follower had just scored, and if they had passed the "0", and if they had flipped their "50/100" chip or needed a new one. Technically I won...we think...but it is possible I flipped a chip twice in the confusion. Having six meeples on the scoreboard for just two players only is a prelude to what would happen in a Mega Mini game with six players. Eighteen meeples on the scoreboard is just too much, and the players have to be aware of their own scoring since it is important for determining which follower moves, since both the Messages (landing on dark spots) and Robbers (meeples will have stalkers) are important factors to consider when moving meeples.

Deus Ex Machina
The final determining factor in my ultimate victory (assuming scoring was correct) was the proper use of Corn Circles. The Corn Circles arrived in a perfect frequency for me, while my wife continued to discount them or forget about them. Three times they depleted my follower reserve, and twice I used them to deprive my wife of a feature. Corn Circles are most powerful when a player either has no remaining followers, and thus cannot place a follower while the other person can, or when a player has disposable followers on features while the opponent does not. The latter was my path to ultimate victory. Twice when "Shield" circles were drawn, I was able to sacrifice a low-value city in exchange for my wife having to sacrifice her share in a high-value city. Once, I even used the Corn Circle to complete the feature she had to then abandon before scoring. It was devious and evil. At the end of the game, I also ensured that the large field remained shared rather than become hers by smartly predicting that one of the last tiles would be a "Pitchfork" circle and placing an extra meeple in another, decent-valued field as insurance in case my wife tried to remove followers rather than add them. She wouldn't risk handing me the entire field, since she had no other field to remove followers from, so she forced an add-follower action, which I was able to do.

Conclusions After Armageddon
After the game, we discussed the game in some detail and determined that the Minis, while individually fun, are not meant to be played together. Despite their general lack of rules conflicts between them, the seven minis create a situation that does not entirely balance between them. We determined that most of the minis would go better with other expansions, such as:

The Fliers – The Tower, Princess & Dragon (expansions where features are frequently vacated, incomplete)
The Ferries – Inns & Cathedrals, Abbey & Mayor, Bridges Castles & Bazaars (expansions where roads feature prominently)
Mage & Witch – Not Inns & Cathedrals (concepts too similar)
The Messages – Not The Robber (too conflicting), works well with most other expansions
The Robber – Not The Messages (too conflicting), works well with most other expansions
The Goldmines – Works well with all expansions
Corn Circles II – Not Corn Circles I (too many Corn Circles makes them too powerful)

Perhaps the Corn Circles aggrandizement was the biggest problem. There were too many corn circles and they were randomly drawn which gave the active player an immense advantage in many cases. One set of Corn Circles is probably enough. Unlike the River expansions which just add an aesthetic appeal to the game, Corn Circles adds a distinct and problematic advantage to the drawing player that can't really be countered. In a 3+ player game, it can become downright devious.

Ultimately, the mayhem in Carcassonne receded to a dull grumble from my wife. While she enjoyed the game — it was actually pretty short — the relative strengths of the various mini expansions really came to light. Early on, we had to consult the instructions frequently, though we found no major conflicts between the expansions. Eventually, the game just went on at pace, with each new tile presenting new opportunities that were largely a waste. While adding fun mechanics to the game, the randomness of the draw still hampers these expansions and their relative strengths.


1482
News and Events / Re: Z-Man Games Release Schedule
« on: February 11, 2013, 06:03:03 PM »
There is no misunderstanding. You seem to be overlooking the fact that RGG and Z-Man are different companies with different contracts and licenses. Here, this may help:

Spielbox Expansions (Z-Man not currently licensed to resell)
The Cathars
The Cult (but available in CK&C)
The Tunnels
The Plague
Little Buildings

Hans im Glück Exclusives (Z-Man maybe is able to resell)
The School
The Festival (exclusive to 10th Anniversary Edition)

Rio Grande Exclusives (Z-Man probably does not have license to resell)
Cult, Siege & Creativity (Cult will be in CK&C, without the extra tile, Siege is exclusive to RGG, Creativity is...dumb)
Corn Circles, Tunnels & Plague (also, see Spielbox above)
The Mini Expansion (Games Quarterly exclusive)

Hans im Glück Select (Z-Man can resell)
Corn Circles I
The River I
The Phantom
Winter-Edition: Gingerbread Man
Hunters & Gatherers: The Scout (now detached from The King & Robber Baron)

1483
News and Events / Re: Z-Man Games Release Schedule
« on: February 11, 2013, 05:48:45 PM »
2014 could see the re-release of the standalones. I'd be surprised if the School got released here; that was a promo/fundraiser more than anything.

Jay had approval for the School and had plans to release it after CC, P, & T..... so hopefully Z-man Games will have the same approval.

Once again, Plague and Tunnels are Spielbox exclusives that Z-Man does not currently have rights to. They'd have to negotiate new terms to use those expansions. School and Corn Circles I they could publish currently, assuming there is no restriction because of the Rainbow Over Ghana campaign.

1484
Reviews & Session Reports / Re: The Barbarian Report: The Robbers Review
« on: February 11, 2013, 09:45:16 AM »
I can easily say that limiting the placement of the robber to just two players per tile will save a lot of game time.

That's not surprising at all and probably one of the reasons they decided that. But it also means some players may never get to place Robbers while others will do it many times. Not sure which I prefer. This Wednesday, I think, my wife and I are going to try to combined Carcassonne Minis game—all six+both Corn Circles—and see how it goes. Fingers crossed.

1485
News and Events / Re: Z-Man Games Release Schedule
« on: February 11, 2013, 09:26:24 AM »
What will that leave for 2014? River I is included in the base game...though it could also release separately. We are still unclear if Z-Man can/will produce Cult, Siege & Creativity (or a similar product). I think that will only leave Corn Circles I, The School, and Wind Rose as official (albeit harder-to-obtain) expansions. I completely agree with your prediction, Scott.

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