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Offline NGC 54

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The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« on: September 10, 2023, 06:24:23 AM »
NOTE: I might make major edits to this post, including adding additional questions or modifying the already listed ones.

Let's discuss WICA related changes needed for The Wonders of Humanity WICA page (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity), the The Wonders of Humanity related changes needed in other WICA pages, and the rules for this expansion, both when played only with the base game and when played with the base game and other expansion(s).

Stuff that has to be discussed (and should be clarified by WICA): :o
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderIf you complete one or more roads that score points during the gameIn other words, you do not receive the 3 points bonus from Stonehenge if you complete an unoccupied road, isn't it? But you score this 3 points bonus only if you complete an occupied road, occupied whether by you and/or somebody, whether who has the majority of the road, isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#PreparationTo mark your wonder later, we recommend you to take another (marker) meeple in your color. You can also use something else in your color as a marker.If you use a normal meeple as a marker meeple, can you remove it from the wonder with the festival and use it later to place it on, say, a road? If you use "something else in your color as a marker", you cannot use it later as a normal meeple, isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#cite_note-3Some wonder tiles include multiple cities spreading across multiple square spaces. Each space should be counted like a separate tile.A meeple placed on a wonder is not placed on a particular tile. As such, meeples placed on wonders cannot be eaten by the dragon, captured by towers, removed by plague... isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#cite_note-3Some wonder tiles include multiple cities spreading across multiple square spaces. Each space should be counted like a separate tile.A meeple placed on a wonder is placed in a special area (like the City of Carcassonne, the City of Leipzig and the Wheel of Fortune). As such, ghosts and the fairy cannot be assigned to meeples placed on wonders, isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#cite_note-3Some wonder tiles include multiple cities spreading across multiple square spaces. Each space should be counted like a separate tile.A meeple placed on a wonder is not placed on a particular tile. As such, you cannot move a wagon on a wonder; or use a portal, a flying machine, a "Change position" gift card, a 20th Anniversary "Add a meeple" symbol, or a 20th Anniversary "Place a meeple" symbol" to place a meeple on a wonder, isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderDuring the game, if you place one of your meeples on one of the 8 tiles around a monastery, you immediately score 3 points.The bonus points from Notre-Dame are provided in 2B-1? Or 3A, 3B or 3C?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderIf you complete one or more roads that score points during the game, you immediately score 3 points for each of those road scorings, even if you don't have a meeple on the road yourself.The bonus points from Stonehenge are provided in 1C? Or 3A, 3B or 3C?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderDuring the game, if you place one of your meeples on one of the 8 tiles around a monastery, you immediately score 3 points.Do you receive the 3 points bonus from Notre-Dame if you place a meeple on a tile next to a German monastery occupied only by meeples placed as abbot(s)?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#cite_note-3Some wonder tiles include multiple cities spreading across multiple square spaces. Each space should be counted like a separate tile.A meeple placed on a wonder is placed in a special area (like the City of Carcassonne, the City of Leipzig and the Wheel of Fortune). A meeple placed on a wonder is not placed on a particular tile. As such, meeples placed on wonders cannot receive points from the big top, isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderDuring the game, if you place one of your meeples on one of the 8 tiles around a monastery, you immediately score 3 points.If you place a meeple on this road (see the second image), you cannot perform a fruit action, as the road tile is to far away from the tree tile, isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#1._Placing_a_wonder_tile, https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#cite_note-3If there is a wonder in front of you, you do not draw a tile, but instead place your wonder according to the usual rules. Once you have placed it, you mark your wonder with your marker meeple by placing it in the center of the wonder (not on a city, road or field). and Some wonder tiles include multiple cities spreading across multiple square spaces. Each space should be counted like a separate tile.A meeple placed on a wonder is not placed on a particular tile. As such, you cannot perform a fruit action by placing a meeple on a fruit action, isn't it? Also, another reason is that that meeple is placed during 1C, not 2B-1.
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#cite_note-3If there is a wonder in front of you, you do not draw a tile, but instead place your wonder according to the usual rules. Once you have placed it, you mark your wonder with your marker meeple by placing it in the center of the wonder (not on a city, road or field).If you have a tile from a bazaar, you first place the tile from bazaar, then you place the wonder tile in a later turn.
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_featureThe first player to get 10 or more points by scoring (landing on or crossing the 10 space on the scoreboard) performs the following steps in this order:This condition should not be fulfilled with a red scoring meeple on space 3 and a red messenger on space 7, as red should have a scoring figure on the space 10, where those 2 meeples are placed next by – per analogy with a blue robber that cannot rob points from the red scoring meeple if the blue robber is on the same space with the red messenger, when the red scoring meeple is not on the same space as the red messenger.
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_featureIf more than one player reaches the space with the meeples on the same turn, the active player chooses which of them will take their meeples (moving the others) and choose a wonder. Therefore, it is possible that another player who has also reached the space will have to wait.Those 2 meeples and the wonder are taken during 3C, immediately after the step of deploying a meeple to the City of Carcassonne (or possibly during 4A?). It does not matter who reaches the space 10 first during the turn sequence – if yellow uses a gift and reaches space 10 during 1B, and red reaches space 10 during 3B, then the player who takes 2 meeples and a wonder can be either red or yellow, according to the active player's decision.
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#2._Placing_a_meeple_on_a_wonder_tileAfter you have placed and marked your wonder, you may immediately place up to 2 meeples on different unoccupied features (city, road, monastery or field) of this wonder tile. You may also place only one or no meeple.The placing of the second meeple is just an add-on the the normal meeple placement. That is, if you decide to place just 1 meeple instead of two in a turn where you have placed a wonder, you cannot perform a special action (like placing an acrobat or moving the tollhouse) instead of placing a second figure on the wonder tile. In other words, in a turn during which you have placed a wonder tile and a marker meeple on the wonder during 1C, during 2B-1 you mai either choose to a) Place 1 meeple or special figure (including the barn) on the wonder tile; b) Place 1 meeple and 1 special figure (including the barn) on the wonder tile; c) Place 2 meeples on the wonder tile; d) Place 2 special figures (including the barn) on the wonder tile; e) Perform a special action that does not involve placing a figure (including the barn) on the wonder tile (like removing the abbot, placing a tower floor, placing an acrobat, protecting a meeple against peasant revolts... you name it). You may also do nothing, of course.
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#2._Placing_a_meeple_on_a_wonder_tileAfter you have placed and marked your wonder, you may immediately place up to 2 meeples on different unoccupied features (city, road, monastery or field) of this wonder tile. You may also place only one or no meeple.You can place 2 meeples on the same square space of the wonder tile (for example, on the Notre-Dame tile, you can place a monk on the monastery and also a farmer on the same square space with the monastery), isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#cite_note-3Some wonder tiles include multiple cities spreading across multiple square spaces. Each space should be counted like a separate tile.A flier considers a wonder tile as 5 distinct normal tiles both when landing and when counting the fly area.
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderDuring the game, if you place one of your meeples on one of the 8 tiles around a monastery, you immediately score 3 points.Do you have to also place the tile around the monastery in order to receive these 3 points? If so, you should not receive these 3 points when using nonconventional means for placing a meeple on a tile adjacent with a monastery (for e.g. by using a portal to place a meeple on a tile placed in another turn adjacent to the monastery).
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#Preparation, https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#1._Placing_a_wonder_tileTo mark your wonder later, we recommend you to take another (marker) meeple in your color. You can also use something else in your color as a marker. and Once you have placed it, you mark your wonder with your marker meeple by placing it in the center of the wonder (not on a city, road or field). The marker meeple that is placed beside the scoring board is always a normal meeple. As such, whether the expansions that are used in the game, you can only place a normal meeple on a wonder, that is, never a large meeple, wagon, guard meeple, and so on.
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderIf you complete one or more occupied roads during your turn (not when playing the Stonehenge wonder tile itself), you immediately score 3 points for each road you complete (even if you don't have a meeple on the road yourself). After that, you score the road as usual.If you place a tile that completes an unoccupied road, and in the same turn, you place a highwaymen on that just completed road, you do not receive 3 points if you have a marker meeple on Stonehenge, as you have completed an unoccupied road, even if you immediately occupied that road.
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderIf you complete one or more occupied roads during your turn (not when playing the Stonehenge wonder tile itself), you immediately score 3 points for each road you complete (even if you don't have a meeple on the road yourself). After that, you score the road as usual.If you place a tile that completes 2 occupied roads. you receive 6 points or 2 times 3 points?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#PreparationChoose 1 wonder tile per player. Place them faceup next to the scoreboard. Discard the remaining wonder tiles, you do not need them for this game.Who chooses the wonder tiles? The all players choose which tiles are discarded and which are not, depending on the number of players? You, according to your will? You, but choosing and discarding randomly tiles according to the number of palyers?

Stuff that (most likely) does not has to be discussed (but should be clarified by WICA): ???

Questions that (no longer) need an answer:
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderDuring the game, if you place one of your meeples on one of the 8 tiles around a monastery, you immediately score 3 points.If you place a meeple on this road (see the first image), do you receive the 3 points bonus from the Notre-Dame for placing a meeple next to a monastic building?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderStarting with the turn in which you place and mark your wonder, you can use it to score points. and If you complete one or more roads that score points during the game, you immediately score 3 points for each of those road scorings, even if you don't have a meeple on the road yourself. After that, you score the road as usual.During a turn, you place Stonehenge, and you connect one or two or three of the roads from the Stonehenge tile to roads already occupied, completing them. Do you receive 3 points (bonus from Stonehenge) for completing one or two or three of those roads?

Pages that have to be updated: ;)

P.S. :D
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#PreparationWe recommend you to play The Wonders of Humanity with more than just the basic game tiles (about 90+). You can use any tiles you want (more basic game tiles or from the (mini) expansions, without having to play with their rules).Any chance for official clarifications for interactions between The Wonders of Humanity and other expansions?


Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6446.0
« Last Edit: November 17, 2023, 01:33:11 PM by NGC 54 »
I translate WikiCarpedia in Romanian (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page/ro). I have 45,600+ edits at WICA. My WICA user page: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/User:NGC_54. Romanian translation of WICA: https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Special:LanguageStats?language=ro&x=D#sortable:3=desc.

Offline Willem

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2023, 07:52:54 AM »
Quite a few of the questions can be resolved with this quote from the rules:
This expansion was developed for the CARCASSONNE - base game, therefore the basic rules stay the same!
You can play The Wonders of humanity in combination with other expansions but there won't be any official rules.
 ;)

So the WICA could make assumptions of how these kind of interactions work, but it won't be clarified by HiG, and WICA can only guide as good as previous rules have been. I.e., if a certain situation has been ruled a certain way in a previous expansion, it can be assumed the same logic can be used.
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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2023, 06:42:10 AM »
I have a very important question, about the rules of Wonder of Humanity, why when you reach the score of 10 or more are the meeeples removed? Both of them? And are all the others advanced? So my questions is, how are be  scored the points .if there is no longer a meeple on the scoreboard?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 06:45:32 AM by davide »

Offline NGC 54

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2023, 07:04:26 AM »
I have a very important question, about the rules of Wonder of Humanity, why when you reach the score of 10 or more are the meeeples removed? Both of them? And are all the others advanced? So my questions is, how are be  scored the points .if there is no longer a meeple on the scoreboard?

You have misunderstood the rules...
 
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#Preparation.

At the start of the game, each player has 6 normal meeples in their supply, 2 normal meeples nearby the 10 space of the scoring board and 1 scoring meeple on the 0 space of the scoring board. The first player who reaches or crosses the space 10 with their scoring meeple takes a wonder tile and their 2 normal meeples that are located nearby the space 10 and places them in their supply. Then, the remaining 2 normal meeples (those that belong to the other players) are moved nearby the 15 space of the scoring board.

During their next turn, the player who reached/crossed the 10 space will place the wonder tile and also 1 of those 2 normal meeples that were previously nearby the 10 space of the scoring board on the wonder as "marking" meeple. After placing the wonder tile and the "marking" meeple (both during 1. Placing a tile), that player can perform the action 2. Placing a meeple as usually, but them may place up to 2 meeples on the wonder tile (placing 2 meeples is allowed only in a turn during which you have placed a wonder tile).

Online davide

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2023, 07:40:27 AM »
tks so much!!

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2023, 08:23:15 AM »
sorry,I have another question,If I interpret the example correctly, notredame only gives bonuses for tiles marked around the monasteries, this means that if I mark a tile inside notredame, near the monastery, it does not give me bonus points, correct?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2023, 11:48:57 AM »

Stuff that has to be discussed (and should be clarified by WICA): :o
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonderIf you complete one or more roads that score points during the gameIn other words, you do not receive the 3 points bonus from Stonehenge if you complete an unoccupied road, isn't it? But you score this 3 points bonus only if you complete an occupied road, occupied whether by you and/or somebody, whether who has the majority of the road, isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#PreparationTo mark your wonder later, we recommend you to take another (marker) meeple in your color. You can also use something else in your color as a marker.If you use a normal meeple as a marker meeple, can you remove it from the wonder with the festival and use it later to place it on, say, a road? If you use "something else in your color as a marker", you cannot use it later as a normal meeple, isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#cite_note-3Some wonder tiles include multiple cities spreading across multiple square spaces. Each space should be counted like a separate tile.A meeple placed on a wonder is not placed on a particular tile. As such, meeples placed on wonders cannot be eaten by the dragon, captured by towers, removed by plague... isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#cite_note-3Some wonder tiles include multiple cities spreading across multiple square spaces. Each space should be counted like a separate tile.A meeple placed on a wonder is placed in a special area (like the City of Carcassonne, the City of Leipzig and the Wheel of Fortune). As such, ghosts and the fairy cannot be assigned to meeples placed on wonders, isn't it?
  • https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#cite_note-3Some wonder tiles include multiple cities spreading across multiple square spaces. Each space should be counted like a separate tile.A meeple placed on a wonder is not placed on a particular tile. As such, you cannot move a wagon on a wonder; or use a portal, a flying machine, a "Change position" gift card, a 20th Anniversary "Add a meeple" symbol, or a 20th Anniversary "Place a meeple" symbol" to place a meeple on a wonder, isn't it?

Using a list with automated numbring makes a bit complicated to reply inline, so I'll reply in blocks.

1. No, as per the German rules you only get the bonus for occupied roads.

The wording of the German rules indicate that you need to complete at least one occupied road, it doesn't matter who owns them. If so, you will get the 3 bonus points per occupied completed road. So completing unoccupied roads will not trigger this bonus.

Note: The English rules seem to be mistranslated as they indicate that you need to score some points from the tile placement additionally to completing one or more occupied roads.



2. No, the meeple placed a a marker becomes a token to indicate the player placing the wonder. It is not actually a meeple with a role.

The idea is that the meeple, figure or token placed as a marker on the wonder cannot be removed by any means. It shows the player who placed the wonder and benefits from the wonder. Thay should have provided some cubes, discs or something you cannot relate to a meeple and avoid any ambiguities depending on the piece that you use a a marker. This would be a similar case as removing a scoring meeple from the scoreboard because a catapult Knock Out token fell next to it.



3. Yes, but you have to follow the grid of square spaces.

You always have an underlying grid made out of square spaces. The dragon, the tower, the flying machines... follow the grid to determine their movement, their ranges, their trajectories.... the same as with German castles. A meeple placed in a city on a wonder tile will be implicitly located in a square space.

All this will not matter for the dragon or a tower, since the whole wonder tile will be affeced by the dragon as soon it lands on any space the wonder tile occupies (only the player marker on the wonder itself is safe from the dragon). The same will happen with tower ranges: as soon any square space of the wonder tile is in rage from a tower, any meeple on the wondr tile can be captured (the player marker on the wonder itself cannot be captured no matter if you used a meeple or another figure for it)

Flee tokens will have to follow the grid too. But you will have to allow multiple flea tokens to occupy the wonder tile. This would happen with double-sized tiles too for the plague to spread smoothly. As with the dragon, the first flea token places on a wonder tile will remove all the meeples on it. However, the player marker will stay put.



4. Yes, the wonder itself is a special area, but the marker placed on it is not acting as a meeple. (It could be a token similar to a tollhouse, but HiG didn't provide it ;) )

Therefore, even if you use a meeple as a player marker on a wonder, no ghosts or the fairy can be assigned to it.



5. Yes, you can use all those mechanics if you follow the grid.

You can do all of this if you stick to the grid. We are just extrapolating from the clarifications given for 1x2 and 2x2 tiles.
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Matisek

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2023, 04:02:06 AM »
I know that the expansion has not yet been released and will not be sold. But the idea that I should sacrifice another piece to mark the card. So I thought of creating a Position. to indicate that it belongs to the player. I used a template from a watermark

Personally, I like the one with the pedestal.
I apologize if I put this in the wrong thread.

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2023, 04:06:45 AM »
Cool I like it! I think that I have a lot of fan expansion stuff, I'm preferring flat (2D) style or marker, from wood of course :)
Check JCloisterZone Add-ons with fan expansions and also some Slovak sci/fi projects in English https://www.scifi.sk/en/

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2023, 06:38:38 AM »
I was thinking of wooden discs in the player colors with the expansion symbol as a sticker... The poor man's approach!  ^-^

Offline NGC 54

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2023, 04:30:12 PM »
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity#3._Scoring_a_wonder

After reading the updated rules, I saw this:

If you complete one or more occupied roads during your turn (not when playing the Stonehenge wonder tile itself), you immediately score 3 points for each road you complete (even if you don't have a meeple on the road yourself).

So, if you complete 2 occupied roads with the same tile, you receive 6 points, isn't it? This can be pretty OP.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2023, 10:18:39 AM »
Yes, that is right.

This sentence was one of the changes included v2 of the rules to address the comments I sent them.

BTW they just updated the rules and v3 is out on Cundco. The tile images show better the field connectivity. In v1 and v2 of the rules the tiles were presented with the printing bleed, so the fields seemed connected in all corners. The bottom row shows actual field connectivity.

PS: Still discussing the red circle on the Notre-Dame tile.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 01:50:30 PM by Meepledrone »

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2023, 10:19:58 AM »
The fourth version of the rules was made available today on Cundco after several corrections and updates to include necessary clarifications. Field connectivity on the wonder tiles hasn't been included to accommodate posible discrepancies due to poduction variations.

The image below shows the original intent, but the field strips on some versions of the tiles may be very narrow such us the left field strip to the left of Notre-Dame. The die-cutting of the tiles may interrupt those fields if not aligned as desired. In these cases, player may be required to agree the field connectivity to consider, if any of them notices the discrepancy from the original intent.

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2023, 11:44:58 AM »
Two more questions sent to HiG...  :o

I'll keep you posted.

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Re: The Wonders of Humanity – Rules
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2024, 04:25:45 PM »
Hi, sorry to reopen the thread after more than two months but we saw that the WikiCarpedia Wonders of Humanity page doesn't reference the Princess & Dragon expansion at all, so we had a couple doubts during our latest game that involved both. The situation:



We assumed that:
  • the dragon can't ever eat the "marker meeple", since that's not linked to a specific tile: the player will always maintain "ownership" of their selected Wonder
  • the dragon can eat any meeple placed on any of the Wonder's five tiles (not in this case since the only meeple there is protected by the fairy)

Is this correct? In our game the dragon moved to 1, then to 3, then left and then down to the monastery, eating the abbot.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2024, 04:27:25 PM by BBG »


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Started by meepleater

52 Replies
19828 Views
Last post July 10, 2017, 12:40:58 AM
by Whaleyland
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My 7 Wonders collection

Started by Squiffything

8 Replies
3297 Views
Last post June 23, 2017, 07:19:56 AM
by Decar
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7 Wonders: Duel

Started by danisthirty

6 Replies
4833 Views
Last post March 25, 2016, 11:43:35 AM
by Decar