Author Topic: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules  (Read 1401 times)

Offline PapaGeek

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The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« on: December 25, 2022, 11:25:25 PM »
Our neighborhood group of four recently discovered the 20th Anniversary Expansion tiles and can’t wait to try our first game with them. But the rules that interact with other expansion are not exactly clear. The Wiki page clearly says: “You can combine it with other expansions - but at your own risk – that is, there will be no official rules for these combinations.”

The rule for placing a meeple on an incomplete unoccupied feature along with the rule pairing with another meeple do not describe which meeples they are talking about; Standard meeple, Abbot, Large meeple, Phantom, Ringmaster, Mayor, and Wagon.

The rules say that you can either place your meeple on the 20th anniversary tile or follow one of the special rules.  What happens if you are using Phantoms in your game? Can you do both?

The rules talk about only allowing a paired meeple to reach a maximum of 2 meeples on a single tile; can you use the large meeple for pairing? Can you use the large meeple when you take control of an unoccupied incomplete feature?

If I place a normal tile that completes an unoccupied incomplete feature, I can place my meeple on that tile to claim it and score it.  What if my 20th Anniversary incomplete feature tile completes an unoccupied monastery or garden, can I place my meeple on the garden of monastery? OR, do I have to place the 20th Anniversary tile elsewhere, take the monastery, then complete it later?


Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6207.0
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Offline Whaleyland

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2022, 11:58:19 PM »
Welcome to the wonderful world of Hans im Glück refusing to consider or account for people playing with multiple expansions. They began doing this with promotional expansions back around 2012, but now both the 20th Anniversary Edition and Mist Over Carcassonne's "Expansion 11" Ghosts, Castles & Cemeteries also have the disclaimer you mention. Officially, that just means you have to figure it out on your own. However, previous rules clarifications, official combining expansions rules from Expansions 1-10 (excluding 7), and a few other sources allow people to figure out many of the potential conflicts.

I recommend you check the expansion on Wikicarpedia: https://wikicarpedia.com/. Members here and elsewhere have already done most of the work for you. And if there are still unresolved issues, you can ask them on the comments for the page.

Offline PapaGeek

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2022, 05:25:29 AM »
Thanks, looking closer at WikiCarPedia, it looks like the 20th Anniversary Expansion is part of the 20th Anniversary Edition, which makes using just the Expansion even more difficult! You have to buy the entire “Edition” for $49.99 or $39.99 just to get the 15 tiles for the Expansion; and we are just not that interested in the entire Edition, just the Expansion.

Looks like it is time to start the process of making our own C2 Expansion only tiles, and start developing our own house rules for this expansion!

Our group is basically a COVID group.  When the disease confined everyone, our group looked for things to do other than places to go.  That is how we discovered Carcassonne in June of 2020, so we are strictly a C2 group, and we are all completely addicted to the game.

Offline PapaGeek

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2022, 05:40:47 AM »
Wow, after looking at the WikiCarPedia page, I have another question for you.

The first example in the Placing a tile section shows how placing a meeple tile was placed with the arrow pointing away from the other tiles so that the player will score 2 points. The third example in that section shows how another player placed a normal road tile against the arrow which gives them the right to place their meeple on any unoccupied feature.

What happens if the tile they placed against the open arrow expansion tile was another expansion tile, like an extra turn tile, would they get to do both expansion features? Or what if it was a side by side tile, could they place their meeple on an unoccupied feature, then place a second meeple next to it?

Wow, this expansion gets more interesting the more you look at it!
« Last Edit: December 26, 2022, 06:30:46 AM by PapaGeek »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2022, 09:41:45 AM »
The rule for placing a meeple on an incomplete unoccupied feature along with the rule pairing with another meeple do not describe which meeples they are talking about; Standard meeple, Abbot, Large meeple, Phantom, Ringmaster, Mayor, and Wagon.

Although this action ("Add Meeple") is an homage to Exp. 1 by placing 2 normal meeples to fake a large meeple, if would would more like som kind if generic a crop circle if you allow to place any type of meeple. The current interpretation of the rules is this: add any meeple no matter their type.

For the time, HiG is not up to making a clarification about this. I have arond some leaflet from a previous Essen edition where they acknowledged you could combine the 20th Anniversary Edition with other expansions, but they refused to do so. I tried, so I learned it first hand. :'(

The rules say that you can either place your meeple on the 20th anniversary tile or follow one of the special rules.  What happens if you are using Phantoms in your game? Can you do both?

Not official clarification about this, of course. (Phantoms in C2 or newer editions? You've to be kidding! >:D).  In this case, we can stick to the phantom rules with magic portals or the flying machine: only one meeple (the wooden meeple or the phantom, when placing two of them in one turn) would be abl to benefit from the additional placement capability. The "Place Meeple" action is a homag to Exp. 3 and their magc portals, so we could also stick to their limitations for phantoms, as clarified by HiG back in the day.

The rules talk about only allowing a paired meeple to reach a maximum of 2 meeples on a single tile; can you use the large meeple for pairing? Can you use the large meeple when you take control of an unoccupied incomplete feature?

As I said before, I would allow it... Imagine deploying a mayor onto a large city with a zillion coats of arms! Devastating!!!  >:D

If I place a normal tile that completes an unoccupied incomplete feature, I can place my meeple on that tile to claim it and score it.  What if my 20th Anniversary incomplete feature tile completes an unoccupied monastery or garden, can I place my meeple on the garden of monastery? OR, do I have to place the 20th Anniversary tile elsewhere, take the monastery, then complete it later?

If you are using the "Place a Meeple" action (the homage to the magic portal), you cannot deploy a meeple on another tile if the feature is completed by the tile just place. This is a constraint imposed by magic potals (Exp. 3). The rules fo the 20th Anniversary Expansion consider this limitation too.

However, if yoy are using the "Add a Meeple" action (the homage to Exp. 1), there is no limitation as per the rules. You can increase your majority votes on any feature even if it is completed by the tile just placed.

Hope this helps.
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2022, 09:50:28 AM »
Wow, after looking at the WikiCarPedia page, I have another question for you.

The first example in the Placing a tile section shows how placing a meeple tile was placed with the arrow pointing away from the other tiles so that the player will score 2 points.

Correct, you don't activate the symbol on the tile just placed, so you score 2 points fo it.

The third example in that section shows how another player placed a normal road tile against the arrow which gives them the right to place their meeple on any unoccupied feature.

Correct, you acivate a symbol on an adjacent tile. Remembr that even if you activate a symbol, you may decide not to use it to place a meeple on anothe tile, for example. You are entitled to that possibility, but it is not mandatory to use the action. If you are granted a double turns, there is no provision to discard it (Who would do that?).

What happens if the tile they placed against the open arrow expansion tile was another expansion tile, like an extra turn tile, would they get to do both expansion features? Or what if it was a side by side tile, could they place their meeple on an unoccupied feature, then place a second meeple next to it?

Only one symbol can be activated per tile placement. So you have to choose which one you will activate. If you don't choose the symbol on the tile just placed, you wll receive 2 points in addition to the chosen action..

Wow, this expansion gets more interesting the more you look at it!

He he he! Enjoy it!

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2022, 09:51:29 AM »
We can decide to include some of these clarifications to WICA. Not all the combinations have been explored and analuzed yet.  ^-^

Offline PapaGeek

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2022, 04:56:12 PM »
There is one item on WICA that is a bit confusing

The Other expansions section for Traders & Builders says:

Extra turn and the builder: During a double turn, if you activate an extra turn arrow symbol and you get an extra turn, you will finish your double turn in full before executing your extra turn.

What if I have my builder on a large city?  On my turn, the tile I draw is the 20th expansion extra turn tile with the curved road. I place the tile in a position where I get the extra turn and then I draw a city tile which I add to my builder’s city. Reading the exact Trader & Builder quote, I have to “finish my double turn in full before executing my extra turn”. Does this mean that I don’t get my builder second turn because I have already taken my extra turn?

If I understand what is being said, if during my turn I am allowed generate one builder second turn and one 20th expansion extra turn for a total of three turns no matter what order the turns occur.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2022, 02:45:46 AM »
When the builder grants you a double turn, what you get is a single turn with two parts, so you extend your current turn and can place two tiles and go through all the steps twice, but it is a single turn. The Exp. 2 does not allow you to convert this double turn into a triple turn.

If during this double turn you receive an additional extra turn by activating an "Extra Turn" symbol from the 20th Anniversary Expansion, your will perform a new turn after the double turn is completed. This new turn can become a new double turn if you extend the feature with your builder again.

Note: Other new turns you may receive from other expansions while you are the active player may also become double turns. Check expansions such as Mini #2 - The Messengers or the Saint Nicholas Scoring Board.

Offline PapaGeek

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2022, 05:59:56 AM »
When the builder grants you a double turn, what you get is a single turn with two parts, so you extend your current turn and can place two tiles and go through all the steps twice, but it is a single turn. The Exp. 2 does not allow you to convert this double turn into a triple turn.

If during this double turn you receive an additional extra turn by activating an "Extra Turn" symbol from the 20th Anniversary Expansion, your will perform a new turn after the double turn is completed. This new turn can become a new double turn if you extend the feature with your builder again.

Note: Other new turns you may receive from other expansions while you are the active player may also become double turns. Check expansions such as Mini #2 - The Messengers or the Saint Nicholas Scoring Board.
So you are basically saying that while you are the active player, with just the builder, you can actually draw and place up to four tiles! PLUS, even more if you are also playing with the Messengers or Saint Nicholas!

This sounds like overkill, so I think that our personal group will probably decide to limit the tiles drawn by any combination of Builders, Anniversary, Saint Nick, or Messengers to a maximum of 3 tiles for the single turn of the current active player!

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2022, 06:07:20 AM »
Technically, this is possible; in real life, this might never happen...

Don't get me started on how to combine all this with a bazaar round... ;)

Offline PapaGeek

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2022, 09:03:53 AM »
LOL:

Isn't this the reason for unofficial house rules!

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: The 20th Anniversary mini-Expansion rules
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2022, 02:27:06 AM »
A safety blanket in this case.... >:D


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