Author Topic: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)  (Read 1457 times)

Offline NGC 54

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EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« on: December 09, 2022, 03:04:23 PM »
One of the 6 tiles from the area of a castle (from Exp. 8) is a cemetery tile (from Exp. 11). The cemetery is completed in a later turn. The castle is occupied by 1 meeple. The cemetery is the only feature that can be chosen by the castle owner. The cemetery is scored as usual, if occupied, but what happens with the castle?

a) Nothing special; a castle does not consider cemeteries. The meeple stays on the castle. The meeple is not returned to its owner, and does not score points for now.

b) A completed cemetery always grants 0 points to a castle; the owner of the castle scores 0 points, and the meeple placed on the castle is returned to its owner.

c) A completed cemetery always grants 1 guard meeple to a castle, if one is available; the owner of the castle scores 0 points but receives 1 guard meeple in their color (if there are no longer any guard meeples in their color in the supply, nothing happens), and the meeple placed on the castle is returned to its owner.

The option c) seems to me the logic one.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6194.0
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 03:29:06 PM by NGC 54 »
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Offline Doom_Shark

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2022, 03:53:56 PM »
Hm. I think we would need an official clarification to indicate option C. By an exact reading of the rules, the castle would score 0 points and the meeple is returned to its owner, as in option B. From WiCa: "Both you and the player who would normally score points for that feature score its full points." The full points of a cemetery being 0, the castle scores 0. An official clarification would still be nice.

Offline NGC 54

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2022, 04:44:36 PM »
Hm. I think we would need an official clarification to indicate option C. By an exact reading of the rules, the castle would score 0 points and the meeple is returned to its owner, as in option B. From WiCa: "Both you and the player who would normally score points for that feature score its full points." The full points of a cemetery being 0, the castle scores 0. An official clarification would still be nice.

When the rules for Exp. 8 were written, the all features were scoring points only.

Offline Doom_Shark

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2022, 08:12:21 PM »
Hm. I think we would need an official clarification to indicate option C. By an exact reading of the rules, the castle would score 0 points and the meeple is returned to its owner, as in option B. From WiCa: "Both you and the player who would normally score points for that feature score its full points." The full points of a cemetery being 0, the castle scores 0. An official clarification would still be nice.

When the rules for Exp. 8 were written, the all features were scoring points only.

Yes; however, when the rules for expansion 3 were written, you could only move one figure per turn. Then the phantom came along, and they took the original wording of the rules for the princess tiles and decided that it was different than any other "move wood" action - while other "move wood" actions allow the player to place their phantom afterwards, using the princess tile's ability does not. Without a clarification from HiG, I don't see how this situation with castles and cemeteries would be different than the old ruling on the princess and the phantom.

Edit: that said, nothing is stopping you from using house rules and playing with your option "C"
« Last Edit: December 09, 2022, 08:14:01 PM by Doom_Shark »

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2022, 12:25:29 AM »
When the rules for Exp. 8 were written, the all features were scoring points only.


Not really true. Because you can score "0" points for feature in Challenge Cult Place - Monastery.
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Offline DIN0

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2022, 01:51:06 AM »
Not to mention the cities with Mayor but no pennants, and also other castles scoring 0 points.

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2022, 08:44:20 AM »
Not to mention the cities with Mayor but no pennants, and also other castles scoring 0 points.

Exactly. But I think this becomes just in clarifications and not in original rule set of Exp 8

Offline Scott

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2022, 11:34:14 AM »
If a mayor in a city with no pennants can cause a Castle Lord to score zero points, then a cemetery would work the same.

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2022, 01:22:41 PM »
Well. I do not agree.


Cemetery feature is not scoring feature, it is feature, which can be completed but not scored.
When it is completed and there is meeple, them meeple is returned to player supply and player get extra guard meeple, if still available.


Castle with Mayor is scored, but Mayor had not good day with his current player, so power of Mayor on castle is 0 so also final score of castle can be only 0.


But Castle is scored because it's scoreable feature.
Cemetery is not.




Offline corinthiens13

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2022, 01:37:03 PM »
This last interpretation seems logical to me too. A cemetery isn't scored, so it's not part of the strict "scoring a feature" phase and can't trigger the scoring of a castle. But indeed an official clarification would be welcome  :yellow-meeple:

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2022, 01:47:03 PM »
This last interpretation seems logical to me too. A cemetery isn't scored, so it's not part of the strict "scoring a feature" phase and can't trigger the scoring of a castle. But indeed an official clarification would be welcome  :yellow-meeple:
As I know HiG and when you read rule book of Exp. 11 - there will be no clarifications by HiG about Exp. 11 and other expansions. So only think we can do make that interactions "consistent" with other expansions and publish on WiCa as new version of CAR and play by that interactions woldwide.

Offline NGC 54

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2022, 02:45:54 PM »
This last interpretation seems logical to me too. A cemetery isn't scored, so it's not part of the strict "scoring a feature" phase and can't trigger the scoring of a castle. But indeed an official clarification would be welcome  :yellow-meeple:

A cemetery IS scored. See https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Ghosts,_Castles_and_Cemeteries#cite_note-9 (you can score -2/-4 points for a cemetery, or even -6 and so on if you have multiple cemetery keepers on the same cemetery, placed via flying machines).
« Last Edit: December 10, 2022, 03:11:54 PM by NGC 54 »

Offline NGC 54

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2022, 03:08:40 PM »
If a mayor in a city with no pennants can cause a Castle Lord to score zero points, then a cemetery would work the same.

False. See https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4954.msg73554#msg73554.

Offline NGC 54

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Re: EPIC: Castles (Exp. 8) and cemeteries (Exp. 11)
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2022, 08:49:26 AM »
WICA should answer to these questions.


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