Phantom in the iOS app rules.

[Drodo]

So I've read in the "official" expanded rules that the Phantom meeple can be used after any "move wood" action is taken. This includes using the phantom after placing pieces such as the builder, the fairy, using a meeple on a tower, etc.

Is this really the official rule? In practice this sounds VERY overpowered.

The way I understand, the Carcassonne meeples are divided in 2 groups:

1) Meeples that can be placed on features, even if they have restrictions. Regular Meeples, Big Meeple, Abbot, Mayor, Cart, Farm, Pig, Sheepherd and Ringmaster.

2) Meeples/Figures that can only be placed/moved *IF* a regular meeple was not placed during this turn. Builder, Fairy, Tower Meeples, Wheel of Fortune Meeples and scoring an incomplete Abbot can only be done if no regular meeple is placed.

In the iOS Carcassonne app, the Phantom could only be placed after option 1).

If you wanted to place a builder, move the fairy or score an abbot, you were not allowed to use the phantom in that turn too. This is how I've always played it too and it makes sense. It doesn't sound very fair to let a player take the fairy AND place the phantom on a feature in the same turn.

Also Magic Portals could only let you use 1 meeple in that turn. No phantom.


Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4756.0

[Meepledrone]

Hi Drodo,

The phantom may be a very powerful ally but it has its limitations too. (Yesterday I played a game and my phantom spent half the game trapped in a semicircular city I wan't able to complete.  )

The basic rules (designed for the basic game only) where clarified a number of times to explain the interaction with older and newer expansions than The Phantom. All these clarifications may be found here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Phantom_(1st_edition)#Other_expansions

One of them says:

Question: Does the phantom have to be second to a wooden follower, or can it be placed in addition to a non-follower piece?
Answer: The phantom may also be placed as a second piece in addition to the builder, pig, or any other "Move Wood" piece such as movement of the fairy or placement of a tower piece.

Note: Just in case, C1 uses the term "follower" that is equivalent to the use of "meeple" in C2. They mean the same.   

So it seems at first sight that the implementors of the iOS App rules made their own interpretation of the rules, maybe to make their lives easier

JCloisterZone (jcloisterzone.com) implements the rules of The Phantom according to the clarifications, for example.

Regarding magic portals, you also have a clarification from 1/2013:

A phantom can use a magic portal. However, both a wooden follower AND the phantom cannot go through the magic portal – you must choose one or the other. This is because the magic portal is treated as a feature and the phantom is effectively a normal follower. If the first follower is placed on the magic portal, it is claiming that portal (then is moved to a feature on another tile). The phantom cannot be placed on that portal because it is a claimed feature. (1/2013)

So in this case, if placing a tile with a magic portal:
* If deploying one meeple, the meeple can use the magic portal no matter it is is a wooden meeple or a phantom.
* If deploying two meeples (a wooden meeple and your phantom), only one of them can use the magic portal. 

Regarding limitations:

* The order of deployment is important: you may deploy a pig or a builder followed by the phantom, but not the other way round. You cannot use the phantom as supporting meeple of an unoccupied feature by deploying the phantom first and then the pig or builder.

You can check this clarification in this regard:

The phantom cannot be placed, then followed by a builder or pig on the same feature on the same turn. The builder [or pig] must be placed as the second figure in a feature [i.e. placed after a follower], but the phantom is always the last piece placed on a turn. If the phantom is the first piece placed on a turn, another figure cannot then be placed. Thus, if a phantom is placed [as the primary follower] on a feature, the builder could at the earliest be placed on the next turn.

* The princess rules: You cannot use a princess tile to vacate a city and occupy it with your phantom.

You can check this clarification in this regard:

The placement of a princess tile with removal of a knight from the city cannot be used as a first "follower move" and be followed by placement of the phantom (e.g. into the now-vacated city). As per the rules for the princess, "if a knight is removed from the city, the player may not deploy or move any other figure." [This combo would be too powerful in allowing city stealing – ed.]

However, you could do this with the help of a tower. Check the clarification about "The Phantom" here:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#Other_expansions


If you want a list of all the actions that can happen before a phantom is deployed, please check Step 2B-1 of the Order of Play after selecting all available expansions for C1 and C2 (WE will be irrelevant in this case). Step 2B-2 will list all the placement options you may have for the phantom.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play

What do you think?

[Drodo]

I think I still like the iOS "can only place a phantom after a follower" rule more. It just sounds more fair.

The restriction from the Princess tile that "no followers can be placed during this turn" should be the same for the fairy, builder, tower, wheel of fortune or score abbot.

You either place followers, or you don't. It doesn't make sense to me that you take a "no follower placed" action such as moving the fairy and then you STILL place a follower anyway (phantom).

It's also harder to explain to new players. I usually say "if you don't place a meeple in this turn, you can do this or that". Telling them that the phantom is an exception to so many rules it just confusing for everyone.

[Meepledrone]

The phantom is not that complex... but I agree that putting too many new elements in one game can make the learning curve steeper for the newcomers.

If you prefer to add restrictions to the phantom, please do. The objective is to enjoy the game. House rules or variants are always welcome in a game if you feel it makes it funnier. 

[Vital Pluymers]

I think I still like the iOS "can only place a phantom after a follower" rule more. It just sounds more fair.

The restriction from the Princess tile that "no followers can be placed during this turn" should be the same for the fairy, builder, tower, wheel of fortune or score abbot.

You either place followers, or you don't. It doesn't make sense to me that you take a "no follower placed" action such as moving the fairy and then you STILL place a follower anyway (phantom).

It's also harder to explain to new players. I usually say "if you don't place a meeple in this turn, you can do this or that". Telling them that the phantom is an exception to so many rules it just confusing for everyone.

Really have no idea why it should sound more fair. In my humble opinion, placing a phantom after another follower is in most cases much more powerful than to place it after a fairy, builder or pig. The fact that the phantom can claim a second interesting feature on the same tile, that's powerful.

If you play with the Tower though, then I agree the phantom can be powerful. But then again, he is powerful for all players. Everyone starts with one phantom and an identical amount of tower pieces. So, the battle should be balanced anyway.

[Meepledrone]

I agree. Everyone has the same advantage... and a bad placement that blocks your phantom can also happen.