Author Topic: Moving Robbers (rogue points)  (Read 4622 times)

Offline Marcellus

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Moving Robbers (rogue points)
« on: April 05, 2014, 02:24:24 PM »
hallo!
Here's my question.
Rogue points rule says that in this case robber's player scores no points and the robber moves forward with counting follower it is next to.
But what happens to my robber if it is on the same space of TWO counting followers and one of them scores points gained by robbing another player?
a) MUST I move my robber forward with that counting follower or b) can I CHOOSE either moving my robber forward with that counting follower or staying still next to the other counting follower?
 


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Offline Paul

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Re: Moving Robbers (rogue points)
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2014, 11:23:18 PM »
I've read the paper rules from my box and also the CAR 6.4 pdf available here for download, which holds the ultimate rules guide.

Had to edit a bit, some of the text got lost when I posted.  :o

The robber must ALWAYS move when one or more follower on the same square as your robber moves. You can then choose which one to follow, in this case the robber-scoring one and get no points or the other one which seems to me did a normal scoring (and thus get half the points from it.)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 11:27:57 PM by Yellow »
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Offline Marcellus

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Re: Moving Robbers (rogue points)
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2014, 12:36:14 AM »
Hallo, Yellow
In my example the second counting follower doesn't move at all.

So, if I understand well:
1) The robber MUST ALWAYS move when one counting follower on the same square moves because it scores points gained by robbing another player, even if there are other (one or more) counting followers on the same square and they don't move (I can't choose to remain on that square with the second ones);
2) robber's player can choose what do (which follower to follow or getting half points) only if there are on the same square of his robber two or more counting followers moving at the same time.

Offline Paul

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Re: Moving Robbers (rogue points)
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2014, 05:38:19 AM »
Re-editing it for the fifth time.  :P This forum hates me and my common characters.

The CAR 6.4 rules does not give an option, rather an Instead statement regarding this situation. This I believe, leaves to the conclusion that you have to move your robber if any of the opponents follower on the same square moves.
  You score not this turn, but when that same follower moves another turn later.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 05:48:18 AM by Yellow »

Offline Carcking

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Re: Moving Robbers (rogue points)
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2014, 04:44:40 PM »
If your Robber is on a space with more than one counting figure he gets to choose which figure to rob from. If that figure does not move for scoring while the others on that space do, the Robber is not obligated to score for those others. He may wait until his targeted figure moves for scoring. He may wait till all but one counting figure moves then he must take the scoring of the last figure.

The Robber is only obligated to take the next scoring if he is on a space with only one scoring figure. Then he has no option.
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Offline Marcellus

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Re: Moving Robbers (rogue points)
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2014, 09:58:38 AM »
Rules say that "the robber is placed ON THE SAME SPACE as at least one counting follower of another player" and not next to one specific counting follower.
Then rules add that "a robber must always take the first allowable points awarded" and "he may not wait for a larger score later".
It seems to me that there is no doubt that you HAVE TO SCORE half points of the first counting follower that moves (and the owner of the robber can choose only in the event that more than one counting followers - standing on the same space of his robber - score points on the same turn).

My question is indeed only about "rogue points". In this case rules do not mention explicity that you are obliged to move your robber forward with the first counting follower that moves (if your robber is on the same place as more counting followers).
Yellow suggest that "you have to move your robber if any of the opponents follower on the same square moves", so you are obliged to move with the first one in the same way you have to take the first half points.
I could agree with him but is this the official rule?


Offline obervet

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Re: Moving Robbers (rogue points)
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2014, 10:57:31 AM »
My opinion is that the robber has to move with the counting follower in this case, but it's a complex situation that isn't explicitly covered by the rules / CAR at this point.

Here's my reasoning:
1) The first bullet point in the "Other Rules" section states that a robber does not score "rogue points" but moves forward with the counting follower to rob later. The opening condition for this is "If the robber is next to a counting follower that scores points gained by robbing another player...". Since this is the case here, this bullet point applies and the robber must move.
2) The second bullet point doesn't apply, since there are no available points awarded, so it's not really a matter of waiting or not.
3) The third bullet point also doesn't apply, since it is only applicable when "more than one of these followers scores points on the same turn". Only one is scoring points in this example, so there is no choice to be made.

In short, there is no allowance for choosing a counting follower to stand beside -- the only choice is if 2 or more followers score simultaneously. Since only 1 is scoring, the robber must latch onto that one, either by scoring the points or (in this case) following along.

Offline Carcking

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Re: Moving Robbers (rogue points)
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2014, 05:56:12 PM »
Yes, I see it now. If the Robber is on a space with two or more counting figures, and one of them scores while the other does not, the Robber must take the half score immediately. He cannot wait for the other figure to score.

We've been playing it wrongly. We've been playing that if Red enters his Robber on Blue's counting figure, and Blue's figure moves onto Yellow due to Robber points, Red's Robber is now on a space with Blue and Yellow counting figures. Even if Yellow then scored, Red would have the option to score half of Yellow's score or stay with the Blue figure because that was his original intended target. I see now that that is wrong.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Now to the point - I also agree that in no case then can the Robber decide to wait. He must move with the first figure that moves - either by scoring, or by taking Robber points. The last sentence in the second bullet says "He may not wait in order to get more points with a later robbery." He simply may not wait in any case.

Offline Scott

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Re: Moving Robbers (rogue points)
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2014, 10:38:53 AM »
I get the impression that a clarifying footnote is needed.

Offline obervet

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Re: Moving Robbers (rogue points)
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2014, 10:26:45 AM »
I get the impression that a clarifying footnote is needed.

I agree. I've put it on the big list of questions.


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