Author Topic: Rules Discrepancy Frustrations  (Read 4045 times)

Offline rfielder

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Rules Discrepancy Frustrations
« on: March 17, 2014, 09:06:49 AM »
This past weekend, we visited friends who enjoy Carcassonne.  They had one expansion we did not have - The Tower.

After playing with it, we purchased a copy of The Tower yesteday (Sunday Mar 16, 2014).  The one we purchased is brand new, and is from Z-Man.

Even though this appears to be the newest edition of the game, the rules included with The Tower do not agree with some very major points in the CAR.  Specifically, if one is allowed to remove a meeple from the top of a tower - the printed rules say NO but the CAR says YES.

My frustration comes partly from finding such discrepancies even with products that are brand new and should have the latest and greatest included.

However - and even more importantly - my greatest frustration comes from trying to explain why these rules should not be followed, and explain why the CAR should be the "bible".

How do others deal with this?  What is the justification for ignoring the printed rules?  In other words - how do you deal with such situations?

Thanks in advance!

Robert Fielder
Brampton, Ontario, Canada  EST

Offline Rosco

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Re: Rules Discrepancy Frustrations
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2014, 09:16:17 AM »
I say that as long as the rules are stated before they come up, it is irrelevant if they are the official rules or not
Just lay the damn tile!

Offline Paul

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Re: Rules Discrepancy Frustrations
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2014, 11:11:56 AM »
It's remarkable that the issue of rules come up quite often. I can understand they are important if it's in a tournament or an official game.

However, when it is played amongst friends or family, it should not lead to confusion or frustration.

Rest assure, conflicts pop up when we play all sort of games but the issue did never halt the game more than a mere minute. We simply deal with it right then and there by verbal votes, if the rules that are followed within the game itself gives conflicts.

It's a matter of adjusting with whom we play with but the idea we have is to keep the game closed to the company itself, meaning we do not let the internet, rules not stated in the actual box(es) we use or someone else dictate how we want to play.
  But even this is not final. We did revert back to scoring 4 points for a  2-tiled city even though some of the versions we have says 2 points.

In your Tower case, for example if you are using the Z-man games and know it conflicts with CAR or the old rules let the others know this and decide which rules to use by a quick vote and then simply start the game.
  Should conflicts occur during game, present all the viable options and have everyone vote. If a tie, roll a dice.

And lastly, I know many of you will disagree and believe that CAR is the ultimate rulebook, but that should not be the case. I'd rather have that as a preferrable set of rules as it sounds less forced.

World record holder for a single game of Carcassonne using 10 007 tiles!

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Rules Discrepancy Frustrations
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2014, 11:59:19 AM »
The best way is to talk with your people and together decide how to play before the game starts.  ;D

I am a great fan of the CAR, because I call with the German publisher HiG if there are questions of rules.
When I get the answers from the publisher, I post the answers here in the forum and obervet put the new
clarification of the rules into the CAR.

The CAR is more actual than the officially rules at the homepages from the publisher.

Offline Carcking

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Re: Rules Discrepancy Frustrations
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2014, 05:05:22 PM »
I personally prefer to hold to the CAR as much as possible because I know it is a "syncronized" set of rules - that is, it coordinates all the expansions together, so one doesn't step on the toes of others. It transcends all the various separate expansion rule variations. If you play with the Dragon and the Tower at neighbor A's house one week and then play the same expansions at neighbor B's house the next week you could get a mixed bag of rules - depending on the publisher and even when it was printed - unless you are following the car.

Additionally, the CAR is where you will find the updated incorporations of the FAQ. If you like to play with rules questions answered officially by the Author - then you'll need the CAR.

There are some who will hold to the CAR because it holds to the official HiG rules. It typically defaults to the HiG rules and doesn't bow to the curious English publishing translations. I do not understand the reason for the English rules varying from the original HiG rules. Granted, they may be poorly translated - but how they never got proof-read by HiG prior to publishing is beyond my imagination. I mean take the basic naming of the newest expansion by Z-Man - Sheep and Hills has now become Hills and Sheep...Why?? How does that happen? What is the Global community going to call that expansion with consistency?

With all that said, barring competitive play, it still comes down to your individual game group - and your own house rules. My group for example refuses to play with the 4 point 2-tile city. A 2-tile city should be worth only 2 points. Our house rule is to hold to that original official HiG rule. Personally, I think that is one that even HiG/Wrede got wrong by changing from 2 points to 4 points.

But if the rules descrepancies are causing you to not have fun with the game then that is something else altogether.

Great inspiring question!
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline MrNumbers

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Re: Rules Discrepancy Frustrations
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2014, 01:08:09 AM »
+1 to Carcking
(except 2 points for 2-tile city)

I would say even more: when I buy a new expansion, I don't waste time on reading the included rules - I use CAR from the start, because when it comes to combining it with other expansions, all the same I will need CAR to handle all the rules combinations.
"I never lose. Either I win or I learn." (Nelson Mandela)

Offline Scott

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Re: Rules Discrepancy Frustrations
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2014, 05:27:08 PM »
Hi rfielder, this is frustrating for us too. When Z-Man got the license to print Carcassonne, I immediately reached out to them and offered our services to help with new version of the rules, but they decided to handle it internally. Since Z-Man Games is located in Montreal, I suspect most of the people who work there have French as their first language, so it's not surprising that they've made some different translation choices.

Most of the games I've played in the past were hosted at my house, and I was teaching the game, so I've never had a dispute between the printed rules versus the CAR. As others have already mentioned, the CAR is the most accurate set of English rules, and the only set of rules which includes footnotes. What I would do if I was not in a position to enforce the CAR is discuss the issue with the other players prior to the start of the game, explain to them why the CAR is better, and hope that they would agree with me. I think it's important to have one global standard for rules so that you can play with anyone in the world.

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