Author Topic: The Phantom on Wikicarpedia (Read 929 times)

Green Builder · « **on:** March 12, 2023, 04:49:29 AM »

Since The Phantom is "the only expansion to date that is completely edition independent", shouldn't the page title be just "The Phantom" instead of "The Phantom (1st edition)"?

Also, wouldn't it be better for the table row dedicated to it in the main page table to be one single cell with the text "C1 & C2 & C3 rules" on it?

Currently it's like this:

and at first glance it may give away the idea that can be used only with C1 (I know version can be mixed together in a game but you get what I mean).

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6316.0

totor66 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2023, 05:51:16 AM »

Well, it's borderline since there was never any mention of it outside of C1

Bumsakalaka · « **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2023, 10:46:43 AM »

Quote from: totor66 on March 12, 2023, 05:51:16 AM

Well, it's borderline since there was never any mention of it outside of C1

Indeed. HiG are looking to phantom as some bad idea in Carcassonne. So it never mention it in any official C2 rules. And we know that C2 was released before prime directive

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Green Builder · « **Reply #3 on:** March 13, 2023, 11:29:06 AM »

Quote from: Bumsakalaka on March 13, 2023, 10:46:43 AM

we know that C2 was released before prime directive

What's prime directive?

NGC 54 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2023, 11:52:39 AM »

Quote from: Bumsakalaka on March 13, 2023, 10:46:43 AM

HiG are looking to phantom as some bad idea in Carcassonne.

Never before heard that. Where does HiG stated this?

Bumsakalaka · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2023, 07:22:26 AM »

Haha. It's wica's joke about how HiG are clarify other expansion interactions.

Quote

This expansion is for base game. It can be played also with other expansion, but publisher will not provide any rules for combination with other expansions.

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Meepledrone · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2023, 01:54:17 PM »

The Phantom is never mentioned in the C2 rules (and later) because it is a minor expansion, and HiG decided to not include interactions with mini expansions in their rules (except a few exceptions). This would allow them to keep their rulebooks as short as possible.

NGC 54 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2023, 02:43:38 PM »

Quote from: Meepledrone on March 14, 2023, 01:54:17 PM

This would allow them to keep their rulebooks as short as possible.

We all know that the reason is another.

DIN0 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2023, 03:26:58 PM »

Once again I have to question the usefulness of the prime directive. They put it in all rulebooks saying they are not going to make official rulings for interacions, but then proceed to do it anyway when we ask them

I'm not complining about the extra rule details of course, but if they're not going to stick to it, then why keep printing the formula into rulebooks?

Bumsakalaka · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2023, 03:43:15 PM »

Quote from: DIN0 on March 16, 2023, 03:26:58 PM

Once again I have to question the usefulness of the prime directive. They put it in all rulebooks saying they are not going to make official rulings for interacions, but then proceed to do it anyway when we ask them
I'm not complining about the extra rule details of course, but if they're not going to stick to it, then why keep printing the formula into rulebooks?

Meepledrone can tell you. Default answer is. Sorry, we will not provide clarification due to mini was designed only for base game. So they are using this prime directive to not answer any rule question about interaction between any mini-mini and/or mini-large expansions.

Only think you can ask is interactions between large expansions except Exp 11. And partialy interaction between any combinations of mini 1-7 and large 1-2 because they were released in BigBox.

Meepledrone · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2023, 03:04:16 PM »

I try to solve a expansion between major expansions, but the discussion may lead me to similar mechanics from minis. So sometimes they provide an answer for the whole lot.

On Discord, they told us that they would resolve questions interactions between expansions within the same box, but not interaction with other standalone minis. The minis in BB4/BB6/BB7 have plenty of room to explore. With this in mind, I tried to solve som open issues within the scope of BB7 twice and got no since January 2022: The turn sequence of the abbot scoring, the inteactions of Messages with Mage & Witch and the scoring sequence of Robbers keep me awake at night...

Regarding Exp. 11, some interactions need a little clarification, but their scope is irrelevant to the expansion itself. For example, does the completion of a cemetery trigger the scoring of neighboring castle (Exp. 8 ) for 0 points? Or should we assume that the completion of a cemetery is closer to the completion of an acrobat pyramid which does not trigger any neighboring castle (it is a meeple related action, not a scoring related action)?

Bumsakalaka · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2023, 03:11:24 PM »

Feature related :imp:

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Meepledrone · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2023, 03:31:22 PM »

Here we would be defining a new type of action triggered by the completion of a feature not found in any previous expansion....

The completion of a fortune teller tent triggers a bonus for the player completing the feature, but no points for the player occupying the feature (except cases like the fairy assigned to the fortune teller). Instead, the completion of the fortune teller tent cancels the ability to draw more than one tile for the occupier of the tent.

The completion of an easter nest triggers grants chocolate eggs, but no meeple can occupy the east nest symbol, so no proper scoring takes place. The rules clarify that he completion of an easter nest does not trigger the scoring of castles in its vicinity.

Could we assume that cemeteries follow the lead of easter nests?

NGC 54 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2023, 04:49:00 PM »

Quote from: Meepledrone on March 17, 2023, 03:31:22 PM

Could we assume that cemeteries follow the lead of easter nests?

But unlike the Easter nests, the cemeteries can provide (negative) points (due to ghosts) during the game to the player(s) with the majority on the them. Thus, the cemetery is a regular feature, though unusual. So the answer for the above question is no, IMHO.

Bumsakalaka · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2023, 12:34:45 AM »

We have similar feature, which is River. You can finish it but not score it, because no player can claim River by meeple.

So. My point of view is:
1. Feature can be claimed by player with any of his Meeples (including only one Meeple like Garden - Abbot)
2. Feature is finished by placement of last tile and meeples on feature are returned to player supply in phase 3. Scoring a feature
3. Feature has scoring phase defined what happened when feature will be completed during a game.

This definition excludes from Castle token triggering of score
1. Abbot taken in 2. Place a meeple from unfinished feature
2. Meeple as Abbot on Special Monastery
3. Scoring Acrobats, because they are finished, but not scored and returned automatically in 3. Scoring a feature in same turn (double-turn is not counted)

So I think. Cemetery can trigger Castle scoring also Fortune Teller, event that here is scoring 0 for feature and 3 points for player which place last tile. Ha, this can be tricky