Author Topic: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery  (Read 1842 times)

Offline Green Builder

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A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« on: March 12, 2023, 04:00:23 AM »
This is a re-creation of a scenario that happened last night during a game.



Blue :blue-meeple: throws the dice and gets 1, so his abbot flies on the monastery that is already occupied by the blue meeple. Now my question: can the two figures be treated separately, that is, for example, by removing the abbot first, getting points for it, and then getting point for the monastery again when it gets completed (since the blue normal meeple is still on it)? I expect the answer to be YES since I can't find anything in the rules telling me otherwise but we'd like to be certain

In the actual game, both the abbot and the normal meeple remained on the monastery until this got completed, so Blue :blue-meeple: got 18 points. I expect this to be also a legal outcome.

Last doubt: can ANOTHER figure (from the same player or another) be placed on the same monastery by using another flying machine? Is there a limit on how many figures can stay on the same feature/tile?

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6315.0

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2023, 04:46:11 AM »
This is a re-creation of a scenario that happened last night during a game.



Blue :blue-meeple: throws the dice and gets 1, so his abbot flies on the monastery that is already occupied by the blue meeple. Now my question: can the two figures be treated separately, that is, for example, by removing the abbot first, getting points for it, and then getting point for the monastery again when it gets completed (since the blue normal meeple is still on it)? I expect the answer to be YES since I can't find anything in the rules telling me otherwise but we'd like to be certain

Yes, you could remove the abbot while the monastery is uncompleted and score for it and later score the monastery with the normal meeple when it is finally completed or at the end of the game as usual.

In the actual game, both the abbot and the normal meeple remained on the monastery until this got completed, so Blue :blue-meeple: got 18 points. I expect this to be also a legal outcome.

In this case, leaving both figures on the monastery until it is completed would not give you extra points. A monastery follows the same majority rules as any other feature with multiple meeples occupying it. Therefore, Blue :blue-meeple: would only score 9 points.

Last doubt: can ANOTHER figure (from the same player or another) be placed on the same monastery by using another flying machine? Is there a limit on how many figures can stay on the same feature/tile?

Yes, you can add additional meeples to a monastery by using flying machines. The expansion does not define any limits, the same as the Synod or th Change Position gift cards (The Gifts) or the equivalent Change Position card for monasteries in The Christmas Present.

* The Gifts: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Gifts#Opening_a_gift
* The Christmas Present: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Christmas_Present#Roadside_deck

However, other expansions such as the 20th Anniversay Expansion defines a limit -you can only add one meeple to an existing one with this mechanic.

* 20th Anniversary Expansion: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/20th_Anniversary_Expansion#2._Placing_a_meeple
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Green Builder

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Re: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2023, 04:53:22 AM »

In the actual game, both the abbot and the normal meeple remained on the monastery until this got completed, so Blue :blue-meeple: got 18 points. I expect this to be also a legal outcome.

In this case, leaving both figures on the monastery until it is completed would not give you extra points. A monastery follows the same majority rules as any other feature with multiple meeples occupying it. Therefore, Blue :blue-meeple: would only score 9 points.

Oh right! Good thing Blue :blue-meeple: didn't win by 9 point then ;D Thank you for the clarification!

Offline NGC 54

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Re: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2023, 05:57:49 AM »
However, other expansions such as the 20th Anniversay Expansion defines a limit -you can only add one meeple to an existing one with this mechanic.

* 20th Anniversary Expansion: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/20th_Anniversary_Expansion#2._Placing_a_meeple

From the wording of the rules (You are allowed to add your meeple next to any of your previously-placed meeples in the playing area, so there will be 2 (there can be a maximum of 2 meeples at a time).), I understand that if you have 2 meeples side-by-side due a crop circle, you cannot add a third meeple with an "Add a meeple" arrow.
I translate WikiCarpedia in Romanian (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page/ro). I have 47,200+ edits at WICA. My WICA user page: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/User:NGC_54. Romanian translation of WICA: https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Special:LanguageStats?language=ro&x=D#sortable:3=desc.

Offline Green Builder

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Re: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2023, 06:03:21 AM »
However, other expansions such as the 20th Anniversay Expansion defines a limit -you can only add one meeple to an existing one with this mechanic.

* 20th Anniversary Expansion: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/20th_Anniversary_Expansion#2._Placing_a_meeple

From the wording of the rules (You are allowed to add your meeple next to any of your previously-placed meeples in the playing area, so there will be 2 (there can be a maximum of 2 meeples at a time).), I understand that if you have 2 meeples side-by-side due a crop circle, you cannot add a third meeple with an "Add a meeple" arrow.
From want I understood, you can. You can add an unlimited number of meeples on a feature, but only a maximum of 1 by using the 20th Anniversary arrow action. But I'm not really sure.

Offline NGC 54

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Re: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2023, 07:42:57 AM »
However, other expansions such as the 20th Anniversay Expansion defines a limit -you can only add one meeple to an existing one with this mechanic.

* 20th Anniversary Expansion: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/20th_Anniversary_Expansion#2._Placing_a_meeple

From the wording of the rules (You are allowed to add your meeple next to any of your previously-placed meeples in the playing area, so there will be 2 (there can be a maximum of 2 meeples at a time).), I understand that if you have 2 meeples side-by-side due a crop circle, you cannot add a third meeple with an "Add a meeple" arrow.
From want I understood, you can. You can add an unlimited number of meeples on a feature, but only a maximum of 1 by using the 20th Anniversary arrow action. But I'm not really sure.

In my example above, I understand that the player could place a third meeple with a flying machine, another crop circle, and so on, but not with an "Add a meeple" arrow because You are allowed to add your meeple next to any of your previously-placed meeples in the playing area, so there will be 2 (there can be a maximum of 2 meeples at a time). (see https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/20th_Anniversary_Expansion#Summary).

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2023, 02:16:47 PM »
The Add Meeple action has is capped and you can only use it once per meeple placed normally in the base game. This can be a bit confusing, but bear in mind that this action was designed to emulate the conversion of a normal meeple into a large meeple by allowing the placement of a second meeple next to one previously placed (this would grant 2 majority votes).

We are talking base game here as the original context. If we extend this action to other expansions, you would achive 2 majority votes for most meeples but the major and the large meeple may accumulate more majority votes than that.

Other expansions like crop circles or flying machines don't present this limitation. So any meeple deployed by direct placement, a magic portal, a flying machine o even a Place Meeple action (from the 20th Anniversary expansion) could benefit from the Add Meeple action.

The only limitation is that you cannot use the Add Meeple action twice on the same meeple.

You may try to "fool the system" by using, for example, Change Position gift cards to move a meeple to a field and back to the feature and then use the Add Meeple action on it, but I don't know if in a real game you would be so lucky to chain that many events to trick the game and get an extra meeple into a juicy city, for example. Would be need to mark somehow those meeples deployed with an Add Meeple action?

Offline NGC 54

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Re: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2023, 04:52:03 AM »
The Add Meeple action has is capped and you can only use it once per meeple placed normally in the base game. This can be a bit confusing, but bear in mind that this action was designed to emulate the conversion of a normal meeple into a large meeple by allowing the placement of a second meeple next to one previously placed (this would grant 2 majority votes).

We are talking base game here as the original context. If we extend this action to other expansions, you would achive 2 majority votes for most meeples but the major and the large meeple may accumulate more majority votes than that.

Other expansions like crop circles or flying machines don't present this limitation. So any meeple deployed by direct placement, a magic portal, a flying machine o even a Place Meeple action (from the 20th Anniversary expansion) could benefit from the Add Meeple action.

The only limitation is that you cannot use the Add Meeple action twice on the same meeple.

You may try to "fool the system" by using, for example, Change Position gift cards to move a meeple to a field and back to the feature and then use the Add Meeple action on it, but I don't know if in a real game you would be so lucky to chain that many events to trick the game and get an extra meeple into a juicy city, for example. Would be need to mark somehow those meeples deployed with an Add Meeple action?

So in your opinion, which one is the correct version?

  • If you have 2 meeples side-by-side due a crop circle, you cannot add a third meeple with an "Add a meeple" arrow.
  • If you have 2 meeples side-by-side due a crop circle, you can add a third meeple with an "Add a meeple" arrow.

The rules say You are allowed to add your meeple next to any of your previously-placed meeples in the playing area, so there will be 2 (there can be a maximum of 2 meeples at a time)., so the first would seem the correct one, but if you take into account Instead of placing a meeple on the tile just placed, you may add it next to another of your meeples anywhere on the game board, so now there will be two meeples side by side. This means that you have one more meeple on the feature for its scoring and you may be able to secure the points (single-handedly). Note: You may not use this action to add a third meeple to the two already placed side by side. and the Base game-centrism, the correct option would seem the second one.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 05:08:50 AM by NGC 54 »

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Re: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2023, 09:52:17 AM »
Simplicity is the solution.

And meeplel can used only in situations when meeple is standalone.

When meeple is multiplied by any existing expasbion including add meeple then add meeple cannot be used.



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Offline Meepledrone

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Re: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2023, 03:36:37 AM »
I sent HiG a question last week. Let's see if we got an answer... I agree that the simpler the better...

Offline NGC 54

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Re: A normal meeple and an abbot on the same monastery
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2023, 05:08:12 AM »
Still, I think that you cannot add a third meeple with the "Add a meeple" arrow whatever, so I incline to agree with Bumsakalaka.


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