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Carc Central Community => The Marketplace => Topic started by: Perimones on January 01, 2016, 05:18:13 AM

Title: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Perimones on January 01, 2016, 05:18:13 AM
I've been looking for the original game (1st ed, 1st print). What I'm really interested in is the 70-point scoreboard.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on January 01, 2016, 06:43:51 AM
Best of luck with that. 70 other people here would bite a right arm off for a copy too. There are some images of the 70point score track here on the forum.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: danisthirty on January 01, 2016, 01:46:14 PM
Best of luck with that. 70 other people here would bite a right arm off for a copy too. There are some images of the 70point score track here on the forum.

Just for the record, I'd also bite off one or both legs if it's still shrink-wrapped...
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Perimones on January 01, 2016, 01:56:54 PM
You never know. A few years ago, I walked in a store and found the original version of the 1st extension (brand-new, shrink-wrapped, with the shrubless crossroad tile) which I had given up on finding.

It's really because I'm a completist (like a few others roaming on this forum). Happy New Year.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Paul on January 01, 2016, 03:35:41 PM
Closest thing I got was when I got in touch with a member on boardgamegeek.com that had the score board going up to 70. He does unfortunately not own it any longer.

I would be happy just to see a picture of it!  :(y)
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on January 01, 2016, 03:42:02 PM
So long as anyone reading this knows this is probably the hardest Carcassonne artifact to find and should see a price to match. 

Carcassonne was released in 2000, I'm not sure of the month, I suspect the print run was limited because it was not know how popular the game was goint to become.  By 2001 the 2nd edition was relelased with the grey 50 point board and also picked up by at least a French publisher.  Later in 2001 the SdJ was won and the rest is history.  So in less than 18months the game had gone through 3 iterations.

If you're a completionist have you got:

> All three print runs of Corn Circles?
> Two sets of Teacher Meeple Essen/Cundco are slighty different
> Both versions of the Russian Tiles from HobbyWorld
> All 3 versions of the Cult
> A first edition of Brazilian Carcassonne / the 2nd
> Both versions of the Gingerbread expansion
> A misprinted King tile?

These are all easier to get hold of than a first edition Carc!

Dan, I'm utilizing stemscells so I can bite of a third leg!
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: SRBO on January 01, 2016, 03:55:58 PM
So long as anyone reading this knows this is probably the hardest Carcassonne artifact to find and should see a price to match. 

Carcassonne was released in 2000, I'm not sure of the month, I suspect the print run was limited because it was not know how popular the game was goint to become.  By 2001 the 2nd edition was relelased with the grey 50 point board and also picked up by at least a French publisher.  Later in 2001 the SdJ was won and the rest is history.  So in less than 18months the game had gone through 3 iterations.

If you're a completionist have you got:

> All three print runs of Corn Circles?
> Two sets of Teacher Meeple Essen/Cundco are slighty different
> Both versions of the Russian Tiles from HobbyWorld
> All 3 versions of the Cult
> A first edition of Brazilian Carcassonne / the 2nd
> Both versions of the Gingerbread expansion
> A misprinted King tile?

These are all easier to get hold of than a first edition Carc!

Dan, I'm utilizing stemscells so I can bite of a third leg!

I read new things here?
Brazilian version?
King tile?
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on January 01, 2016, 04:03:16 PM
Sorry BC&B misprint not king tile.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Perimones on January 01, 2016, 08:56:19 PM
Corn Circles? Check
Two sets of Teacher Meeple Essen/Cundco are slightly different. I have one, what's the difference?
Russian Tiles? Got one, looking for the other one.
Cult? Check
A first edition of Brazilian Carcassonne / the 2nd? That's new to me, what so special about this?
Gingerbread? Check
BC&B misprint? What's the misprint?

Cool, new stuff to run after.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: danisthirty on January 01, 2016, 11:05:28 PM
Cool, new stuff to run after.

There's always something. Always. Owning "everything" just forces you to look harder for the stuff you haven't got and get even more pedantic about the stuff you "need".
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Rosco on January 01, 2016, 11:23:58 PM
I am not even slightly bothered about trying to locate a mis-printed tile or anything like that. 
What are the differences between the different cults and the different crop circles?  I only really want the stuff which is actually different rather than just has a slightly different bush on the tile.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: danisthirty on January 01, 2016, 11:56:18 PM
I am not even slightly bothered about trying to locate a mis-printed tile or anything like that. 
What are the differences between the different cults and the different crop circles?  I only really want the stuff which is actually different rather than just has a slightly different bush on the tile.

I started off with the intention of collecting all the normal expansions, but my sense of "completeness" changed over time and shortly after I'd collected all but a few of the main expansions I started going after the spin-offs too. The quest to own every different version/ edition/ print-run hasn't really caught on with me either, but I have picked up a few rare things along the way either because I've randomly happened upon them on eBay or others have sought them out on my behalf. I don't really have the money or attention span to keep up with this though!

I believe there are 3 different versions of the cult as it has been released in 3 different ways: through the Carcassonne Almanac/ Spielbox magazine (5 tiles), through RGG's Cult, Siege & Creativity (6 tiles) and also through King & Consort (5 tiles). Although I wouldn't be surprised if there were alternative sources for this that I'm not aware of. Crop Circles has been released in 2 different ways that I'm aware of: firstly in a special edition of the basic game, then as a mini-expansion available through Cundco. I think I own both (I have an unopened box with a sticker on the outside saying that it includes Corn Circles) but I don't know how many print-runs this constitutes.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Perimones on January 02, 2016, 06:09:09 AM
There is no difference between the different versions of the cult, but for an additional tile in CS&C (the field, road, field, road tile). The two sets of the crop circles are totally different.

Actually, I do limit myself in how I collect. Only the tiles which have a different front (don't care about the back). So boxes and rulebooks are out. Since I starting collecting with the brown scoreboard (and got all the others through the years), I thought I would track down the 70-point one since it is like a big tile, but if it is that rare I won't waste my time on this. Which is not a bad thing since I play with everything I buy, and I didn't feel like adding another basic set .... again: Carcassonne, Carcassonne Ii (new look),  10-year special edition (for the Festival tiles), the Muller edition (different Cathar tiles), Wheel of Fortune (new tiles), and Big box 5 (different wheel tile). And yes our rivers are freakishly long (we made a house rule to be able to use all of them).
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: JT Atomico on January 02, 2016, 07:43:36 AM
If you're a completionist have you got:

> All three print runs of Corn Circles?
> Two sets of Teacher Meeple Essen/Cundco are slighty different
> Both versions of the Russian Tiles from HobbyWorld
> All 3 versions of the Cult
> A first edition of Brazilian Carcassonne / the 2nd
> Both versions of the Gingerbread expansion
> A misprinted King BC&B tile?

Some of these are new to me as well. Care to elaborate Decar?

I'm particularly interested in the differences between versions of Corn Circles and the Russian tiles, and also in the BC&B misprint which I have never heard about before. I think I understand the other ones.

My rough policy on these things is that I care about tiles if the art has changed. The fact that they come from a different print run or that they have a different watermark doesn't bother me.

For example, I don't feel the need to buy the Spielbox version of Shrines & Heretics since it is the same as the one that came in Count, King and Cult. However I did buy both versions of Wind Roses because the compass points (and rules) changed, and I also consider the river in BB5 to be The River III because of the added sheep!
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Halfling on January 02, 2016, 08:04:34 AM
I thought I was sad/mad/driven wanting 1 copy of everything.  I've not caught the must have multiple version bug though.  But there is still time I guess.....
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Whaleyland on January 02, 2016, 02:41:28 PM
For me, if it has different art or different watermarks, it's a different version, but pre-watermark tiles don't count for me. I like all tiles possible to have a watermark on them (except River I and other expansions that never had them).
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on January 03, 2016, 08:19:51 AM
Most of the things I've referenced have slightly different art, watermarks or even just print colours from different batches.  A lot of people call themselves completionists but give themselves contradictory rules over what they think is necessary to collect (or sleep at night); which I'll waffle on about shortly.

For me, I find it interesting being aware of these differences.  All together, they tell the Story of the game of Carcassonne.  Knowing that expansions were altered and the reasons why they changed is interesting; at least, in my opinion.

Just this week we had a conversation about the 1st and 2nd Edition of the Winter Edition from Z-man games.  The first contained the Gingerbread expansion, the 2nd did not and the box art was changed to reflect this.

Some changes are unintentional.  Correcting a mistake between print runs (like the Gingerbread), or perhaps subtle changes in the factory's manufacturing process (such as the Teachers) or Crop Circles [there are 3 colour variations of CC1].

In my opinion, people who buy stuff operate at different 'levels' and swap and change between them as they feel fit. 

For example: the first level (in my opinion), is the 'rules complete' collector.  These collectors can have one of every tile, regardless of artwork and be happy knowing they can play the game and invoke all the rules as they feel fit.  In my opinion, this means they wouldn't care if they had: cathars from spielbox or the siege tiles from CSC.  Granted the rules are ever so slightly different, but the tiles permutations are identical - just with different artwork.  Similarly, these people don't care if they have a red or blue teacher meeple.   They are all the same.  Similarly, phantoms from a Red or Green meeple box are identical.

Those nuances I described above, lead to the next level of collection; which this is probably the level we are likely to reside in.  It is also the level which is hardest to quantify.  Some refer to it as the 'one-of-everything' level, but I think this is incorrect.  I like to refer to it as the 'conscious differentiator'.  You make decisions over what you need or don't need.  You're the person that needs all 5 teacher-meeples. You're the person that needs all 5-phantom boxes.  You need siege AND cathars, because they're different enough.  You needed the Russian promo-tiles, even though they're the wrong shape and have 'K's on the back.  You can probably live without: the colour variant of Crop Circles, you don't need a correct BS&B tile, you don't need the pre-corrected Inns and Cathedrals CRCr tile, with the bush, you don't need early non-watermarked expansions.  Possibly you don't need Carcassonne 2.0.

This level of collection is hard, because most of the subtle differences are accidental between publishers and print runs.  Also they're not documented very well.

You may, for some reason you NEED the 70-point score tile, even though, it makes no difference to the game.  In fact, the 70-point score track is a bit useless.  The 49-point score track is superior in a number of ways.  For a start, 49, loops back around to 0.  Also, have you noticed the low score spaces are bigger than the higher ones?  It's because you're more likely to share a score of 0-12 at the start of the game, when a small city or a road is completed early on.  Later, you're less likely to share a score of 35, when the game is underway, so you don't need to take up as much space to share meeple.   I find this level of aesthetic-engineering in a game ultra-pleasing.  There's also some psychological arguments made, that suggest players look closer than they are, between 20 and 45, to encourage the competition.  The 70-point score track is rubbish in comparison, it doesn't loop and all the spaces are the same size.  Personally though, the gray 49-point score track is my favourite, I find the scores easier to read.

Perhaps it would be nice if Hans im Gluck reprinted this scoreboard for the celebrations this year?  Would that put our collective-itch to bed?  This really takes us to that next level of collection - 'the true completionist'  (the I still need a 1st Edition collector!)

As I said the 'conscious differentiator' is the hardest collector to define.  They (myself included) are able to justify the reasons why they either need, or don't need an observed variation.

A post somewhere on here, or CarcF listed all the known releases of the base game box.  There are approximately 12 now.  The cover artwork has been changed at least 4 times, that I'm aware of:  The bearded-thief, the lady, the smiling knight and lady, and Hans (of Hans im Gluck) riding a pig in the background.  There are numerous changes to the box-back art as well, and the various iconographic changes.

These changes, are insignificant to the game, but as I said before, tell the story behind the game of Carcassonne.  I assume the thief was changed to a female to appeal to female gamers.  I find these sort of changes interesting.  I'm not sure about the reason for the pig riding.

To finish of my incoherent ramble - I hope in the coming months and years we'll have a better archive of all these minor variations, so that collectors at all levels can review their collection and identify what they own (or have the potential to own, if they desire) all these subtle variations.

+1 for HiG reprinting the 70-point score board too, for Essen this year  :(y)
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Paul on January 04, 2016, 04:20:27 PM
kettlefish was kind enough to find a (somewhat blurry) image of the 70 score board track!

Source: http://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=188&t=2530 (http://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=188&t=2530)
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Paul on January 04, 2016, 04:24:27 PM
I spoke too soon. Now she gave me an even better image!

(not sure you have to be logged in to be able to view them)

Source:
http://www.carcassonne-forum.de/gallery/album.php?album_id=97 (http://www.carcassonne-forum.de/gallery/album.php?album_id=97)
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Whaleyland on January 04, 2016, 05:03:17 PM
I love how the 70-point board just dead-ends, like players will never get more points than that in the basic game. I think my record for points in a basic game is something link 148 or thereabouts. Definitely more than 70.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: danisthirty on January 05, 2016, 01:01:24 AM
I love how the 70-point board just dead-ends, like players will never get more points than that in the basic game. I think my record for points in a basic game is something link 148 or thereabouts. Definitely more than 70.

I suppose it all depends on what he thought would be the usual number of players per game. 70 is a poor score for a 2-player game, but it's not so bad in a 5 or even 4-player game. Carcassonne is good for up to 5 players after all.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Paul on January 05, 2016, 01:32:38 AM
I love how the 70-point board just dead-ends, like players will never get more points than that in the basic game. I think my record for points in a basic game is something link 148 or thereabouts. Definitely more than 70.

It's rare but sometimes you get that perfect tile. Mine is 145 points in a 5 player (basic) game that we played just a few days ago in a cafe. Owning the entire field at the end of the game is just... awesome.  8)

Lied down followers on the scoreboards have 50+ score.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: jungleboy on January 05, 2016, 01:40:45 AM

Lied down followers on the scoreboards have 50+ score.

Old school - nice! I am about to make another order with Basically Wooden and I can't wait for the score tokens so I don't have to use the 50/100 tiles anymore.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: danisthirty on January 05, 2016, 01:48:07 AM
Is it worth asking Basically Wooden to produce some 70/ 140/ 210 score track tokens for those lucky enough to own the 70-point score track? :D
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on January 05, 2016, 01:57:49 AM
An excellent idea Dan!

I recently got to use BWs tokens on the scoreboard on the back of their travelbox.  Together they workreally nicely  :(y) 

We only managed to score about 80points that game, it was really messy - but sliding the tokens around was great fun!
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: quevy on January 05, 2016, 01:58:44 AM
Is it worth asking Basically Wooden to produce some 70/ 140/ 210 score track tokens for those lucky enough to own the 70-point score track? :D

 :D :D :D
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2qk5c1d.jpg)
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: danisthirty on January 05, 2016, 04:13:58 AM
Great work quevy! If there's a "140" to go on the reverse I'd be tempted to make a dozen or so of these purely for the awkwardness of having to award these every time someone reached 20 on their second lap of the standard score track... :@
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on January 05, 2016, 06:55:28 AM
You might need a 141 counter, on the other side!
If you score 1 point and move from 70 points to 0 points; you'll have scored 141 points by the time you get to 70 for the second time.

This is why the 49-point track is so much better  :(y)
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on February 04, 2016, 06:55:40 AM
Recent acquisition (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1205.msg34314#msg34314)  :(y) :(y)
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: totor66 on February 15, 2016, 04:12:01 AM
Arf

Thought I found one but turns out it was just a second edition I think. If Box has not a logo spiel des Jahr 2001 it doesn't mean automaticaly that it is a First version ?

Thanks in advance :)
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on February 15, 2016, 04:16:38 AM
Nope. Nor does having a picture of the 70point score tile on the back. Youll probably get a nice stone scoretrack though!
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: JoeSesquipedalian on February 15, 2016, 10:31:59 AM


Nope. Nor does having a picture of the 70point score tile on the back. Youll probably get a nice stone scoretrack though!

Decar, you are saying that if a 70-point scoreboard is pictured on the back, it may not come with one?  If this is the case, how can you distinguish a first edition version from others just by looking at the box?
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: JT Atomico on February 24, 2016, 09:19:41 AM
I found one! See the I love the postman... (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1205.msg35331#msg35331) thread for more details and for pictures.

All I will say hear is that this was really tough to find, so good luck to anybody searching!

Oh, and I can also confirm that there is no way to tell whether an edition contains an old scoreboard from the box alone. I compared the box I got today with another old edition I found (with the grey scoreboard) and the exterior of the boxes were identical. So that means that you can never be certain that you have a first edition if it is new and shrink-wrapped.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: SRBO on February 24, 2016, 02:12:41 PM
So if the back shows a grey board,
it could be both a 70.. or a grey board be, right?
or also a normal one?

A little question..

Can there be a line in the profile for these scoreboards?
We have a 1-Tile count line also!
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: JT Atomico on February 24, 2016, 02:19:18 PM
So if the back shows a grey board,
it could be both a 70.. or a grey board be, right?
or also a normal one?
No, sorry if I wasn't clear. If the back shows a grey board it is definitely not a 70-point board, but if the back shows a 70-point board it could just be a grey one.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: SRBO on February 25, 2016, 03:28:43 AM
So if the back shows a grey board,
it could be both a 70.. or a grey board be, right?
or also a normal one?
No, sorry if I wasn't clear. If the back shows a grey board it is definitely not a 70-point board, but if the back shows a 70-point board it could just be a grey one.

Ah thanks!
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Andrew the Ambo on April 09, 2016, 08:25:01 PM
Are all First Edition games only put out by HiG, or did Rio Grande put one out?

I am aware of an early copy in NZ, sealed, that includes the River Expansion. It is dated 2000, but on the back includes the SdJ2001 icon. On the front is a gold sticker on the plastic wrap saying "Winner Game of the Year".

The back shows the 70 point scoreboard though.

Is it worth getting?

Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: SRBO on April 09, 2016, 11:36:43 PM
Are all First Edition games only put out by HiG, or did Rio Grande put one out?

I am aware of an early copy in NZ, sealed, that includes the River Expansion. It is dated 2000, but on the back includes the SdJ2001 icon. On the front is a gold sticker on the plastic wrap saying "Winner Game of the Year".

The back shows the 70 point scoreboard though.

Is it worth getting?

Is it a woman or a soldier on the front?
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: jungleboy on April 09, 2016, 11:38:30 PM
Is it worth getting?

Depends how crazy you are :)
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on April 09, 2016, 11:47:33 PM
Only the first edition from 2000 edition has the 70point score track. The Spiel das Jahre was awarded in 2001.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Andrew the Ambo on April 10, 2016, 12:42:47 AM
I then thought about it, and went into the roof to find the box my version came in. It was the same.

Oh well...
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on April 10, 2016, 04:18:18 AM
I thought you were going to say: ...and it already had a 70point score track inside. That would have been funny!
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: SRBO on April 26, 2016, 03:12:26 PM
Just out of curiosity.. how much would you pay for it..
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Andrew the Ambo on April 26, 2016, 05:14:58 PM
That copy was NZ$40. Which is about 25 Euro.

Just ask Udo Schmidt what he thinks of prices for games here. $40 for  a shrink wrapped copy is about par for the course.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: SRBO on April 27, 2016, 12:11:57 AM
I found one yesterday.
Title: Re: WTB: First Edition, First Print with 70-point scoreboard
Post by: Decar on April 27, 2016, 01:52:37 AM
I know it's exciting!  Welcome to the club SRBO ;)