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Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: Meepledrone on January 26, 2020, 12:23:40 AM

Title: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 26, 2020, 12:23:40 AM
Hi all,

As suggested by wolnic, I create this topic to centralize any request for corrections to WikiCarpedia (WICA). Please post here any typos, corrections, or even suggestions you may have.

Thank you for helping us improve the Carcassonne rules Wiki!  ;D

Cheers!
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on January 28, 2020, 09:25:50 AM
My first batch of suggested edits to WICA ...
_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Inns_and_Cathedrals
(formatting) existing text: "CAUTION: During final scoring, incomplete cities with a cathedral in them do not score any points."
suggested edit - bold the final "s"
_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon
(error ?) existing text: "Place the dragon on the newly placed Volcano tile. Then it is the next player's turn."
suggested edit - delete the second sentence

(typo) existing text: "Portal does no affect scoring."
suggested edit - the third word should be "not"
_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top
(clarification) existing text: " At the end of the game, ringmasters in fields or on incomplete features score ringmaster points."
suggested edit - continue the sentence, "... score ringmaster points (in addition to points for the incomplete road, city or monastery or the field which he is in.)" - this might just be me (I've never played the expansion) and I appreciate that this is what is implied by the existing text, but I think it might be useful to explicitly spell it out.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 28, 2020, 04:13:34 PM
Hi cicerunner,

Thank you for your help...

My first batch of suggested edits to WICA ...
_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Inns_and_Cathedrals
(formatting) existing text: "CAUTION: During final scoring, incomplete cities with a cathedral in them do not score any points."
suggested edit - bold the final "s"
_____

Corrected.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon
(error ?) existing text: "Place the dragon on the newly placed Volcano tile. Then it is the next player's turn."
suggested edit - delete the second sentence

I would like to discuss this one. This sentence is present in the German rules as well. The issue here for me is the following:
- You place the volcano tile
- You may not place a meeple on the volcano tile but you can move the fairy
- You may not do much but the placement of the volcano tile may trigger the scoring of one or more features so "Then it is the next player's turn." will only make sense after scoring in this case.

Therefore, what was the intention of this sentence?

(typo) existing text: "Portal does no affect scoring."
suggested edit - the third word should be "not"
_____

Corrected.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top
(clarification) existing text: " At the end of the game, ringmasters in fields or on incomplete features score ringmaster points."
suggested edit - continue the sentence, "... score ringmaster points (in addition to points for the incomplete road, city or monastery or the field which he is in.)" - this might just be me (I've never played the expansion) and I appreciate that this is what is implied by the existing text, but I think it might be useful to explicitly spell it out.

The German version is:

Game end
At the end of the game, you get these extra points for your ringmaster in the same way - both when the ringmaster is lying on the field as a farmer, and when he is standing on an unfinished building.

We can add the clarification in the main text or as a footnote. What do you think of simple adding "also"?

"At the end of the game, ringmasters in fields or on incomplete features also score ringmaster points."

I think this way the usual scoring is assumed too.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on January 29, 2020, 05:35:04 AM
Regarding the ringmaster ...
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top
(clarification) existing text: " At the end of the game, ringmasters in fields or on incomplete features score ringmaster points."
suggested edit - continue the sentence, "... score ringmaster points (in addition to points for the incomplete road, city or monastery or the field which he is in.)" - this might just be me (I've never played the expansion) and I appreciate that this is what is implied by the existing text, but I think it might be useful to explicitly spell it out.

The German version is:

Game end
At the end of the game, you get these extra points for your ringmaster in the same way - both when the ringmaster is lying on the field as a farmer, and when he is standing on an unfinished building.

We can add the clarification in the main text or as a footnote. What do you think of simple adding "also"?

"At the end of the game, ringmasters in fields or on incomplete features also score ringmaster points."

I think this way the usual scoring is assumed too.
My first response was to welcome your more concise version - it definitely provides the nudge to score the ringmaster as a normal meeple too at the end of the game. I still really like your version, but I'm going to offer this, subtly more explicit, version.

"At the end of the game, ringmasters score fields or incomplete features as normal meeples and also score ringmaster points."

I think your version is absolutely fine. And I emphasise again that I've not actually played the expansion and suspect that most people reading the WikiCarpedia will be doing so more naturally than I am now. Hence they may well have fully internalised that 'ringmasters are normal meeples too' when reading this section. I defer to you on which version is the best fit.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 29, 2020, 08:13:30 AM
I updated the paragraph with the longer version. Readers should be happier since the paragraph is quite direct..
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on February 01, 2020, 12:59:15 PM
When scoring a '2 points/meeple' Watchtower is the Builder considered (if present on one of the relevant tiles)?

I've paraphrased this question from Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Carcassonne/comments/ereiwl/question_in_the_picture_the_road_is_now_completed/) as I'm not sure that the WICA entry (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Watchtowers) adequately makes the answer clear. (For the builder or other game figures)

Sinscerly responds there and references this WICA page - http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Game\_Figures\_(1st\_edition)/en - which does answer the question, but I think it might be helpful if a significantly more concise version (just a list defining whether each game figure is a "meeple/follower" or a "special figure") was created and referenced in the footnotes of each expansion affected. (Not just The Watchtowers.)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on February 01, 2020, 01:34:03 PM
In our To Do list, there is a glossary page that should address the redefinition of various terms including "meeple", "special figure", "neutral figure", etc.

For the time being I added a clarification to "The Watchtowers" explaining what is considered a meeple.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on February 01, 2020, 03:34:05 PM
In our To Do list ... <snip> ...
For the time being I added a clarification to "The Watchtowers" explaining what is considered a meeple.
Looks good to me. Good to know there's a more global solution coming.

And I haven't forgotten about this either ...
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon
(error ?) existing text: "Place the dragon on the newly placed Volcano tile. Then it is the next player's turn."
suggested edit - delete the second sentence

I would like to discuss this one.
... I'll post again when I've collected my thoughts.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on February 02, 2020, 12:12:35 AM
_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River
(typo) existing text:
"One of the river tiles contains an inn the affects a road"
suggested edit - "the effects" should be "that affects"

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor
(typo) existing text - "12 new and tiles"
suggested edit - "and" should be "land"

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor
(clarification) existing text - "The rules for scoring an abbey are identical to those for scoring a monastery."
suggested edit - "Scoring the abbey itself, both during a game and at game end, is identical to scoring a monastery."

(clarification) existing text - "The abbey behaves like a monastery. You may choose to place a meeple as a monk onto your abbey."
suggested edit - "The abbey behaves like a monastery. Hence, you may choose to place a meeple as a monk, or an abbot, onto your abbey."

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon
(typo) existing text - "This list has been extended to included all exiting meeples"
suggested edit - "exiting" should be "existing"
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on February 02, 2020, 01:32:47 AM
_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River
(typo) existing text:
"One of the river tiles contains an inn the affects a road"
suggested edit - "the effects" should be "that affects"

Corrected

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor
(typo) existing text - "12 new and tiles"
suggested edit - "and" should be "land"



_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor
(clarification) existing text - "The rules for scoring an abbey are identical to those for scoring a monastery."
suggested edit - "Scoring the abbey itself, both during a game and at game end, is identical to scoring a monastery."

Text updated as it provides more detail.

(clarification) existing text - "The abbey behaves like a monastery. You may choose to place a meeple as a monk onto your abbey."
suggested edit - "The abbey behaves like a monastery. Hence, you may choose to place a meeple as a monk, or an abbot, onto your abbey."

Added this clarification in the "Other expansions" section.

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon
(typo) existing text - "This list has been extended to included all exiting meeples"
suggested edit - "exiting" should be "existing"

Corrected both typos  :o

(typo) existing text - "This list has been extended to included all exiting meeples"
suggested edit - "This list has been extended to include all existing meeples"

Thank you for your help!!!

+1 merit from me.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on February 02, 2020, 12:58:42 PM
Corrected both typos  :o

...

+1 merit from me.

Both! Well spotted. :)

And thanks. So how do merits work?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on February 02, 2020, 01:10:29 PM
You give merits to members who post or do something you like. It's just a token of appreciation.

You click on the "[give merit]" link you see in the block describing the author of a post... and voilà.

Check the red arrow in the image below  ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on February 03, 2020, 07:32:51 AM
_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages
(typo) existing text:
"2 Points per Farm: You score 2 points for each of your farmers."
suggested edit - "per Farm" should be "per Farmer"

(clarification) existing text:
"Then return the meeple that was on the feature"
suggested edit - "Then return only your meeple that was on the feature"
The footnote [5] makes it absolutely clear that this is what is intended, but I feel this helps users get an important piece of information that they might otherwise miss.

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch
(clarification) existing text:
"An incomplete road with both an inn and the mage on it will be worth 1 point per tile (the incomplete inn drops each tile's value to 0 points, but the mage still provides 1 point per tile in a scored feature it occupies. The mage does not grant points for coat of arms."
suggested edit - add the following sentence between the two existing sentences - "Similarly an incomplete city with both a cathedral and the mage on it will also be worth 1 point per tile."

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles
(typo) existing text:
"Then, perform to the new action"
suggested edit - delete the word "to"

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Festival_(1st_edition)
(clarification) existing text:
"This expansion has been developed for the Carcassonne basic game. All of the rules remain the same."
suggested edit - "This expansion has been developed for the Carcassonne basic game. All the basic game rules still apply."
I've seen the same existing text on the Spiel Promos too and perhaps it exists on many of the mini-expansion pages. If so, I think the following applies in those cases too.
I think that the existing text implies that there are no rule changes whatsoever. Whereas the actual situation, at least in the two examples I have found, is that there are additional rules over and above the basic game rules. Hence an alternative suggested edit - "This expansion has been developed for the Carcassonne basic game. All the basic game rules still apply in addition to the expansion rules below."
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on February 03, 2020, 12:35:59 PM
_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages
(typo) existing text:
"2 Points per Farm: You score 2 points for each of your farmers."
suggested edit - "per Farm" should be "per Farmer"

Corrected.

(clarification) existing text:
"Then return the meeple that was on the feature"
suggested edit - "Then return only your meeple that was on the feature"
The footnote [5] makes it absolutely clear that this is what is intended, but I feel this helps users get an important piece of information that they might otherwise miss.

Updated as requested.

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Mage_and_Witch
(clarification) existing text:
"An incomplete road with both an inn and the mage on it will be worth 1 point per tile (the incomplete inn drops each tile's value to 0 points, but the mage still provides 1 point per tile in a scored feature it occupies. The mage does not grant points for coat of arms."
suggested edit - add the following sentence between the two existing sentences - "Similarly an incomplete city with both a cathedral and the mage on it will also be worth 1 point per tile."

I updated the text as follows so each bullet coves a different features more clearly.

* Inns and Cathedrals:
     * An incomplete road with both an inn and the mage on it will be worth 1 point per tile (the incomplete inn drops each tile's value to 0 points, but the mage still provides 1 point per tile in a scored feature it occupies.
     * Similarly an incomplete city with both a cathedral and the mage on it will also be worth 1 point per tile. Note that the mage does not grant points for coats of arms.

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles
(typo) existing text:
"Then, perform to the new action"
suggested edit - delete the word "to"

Corrected

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Festival_(1st_edition)
(clarification) existing text:
"This expansion has been developed for the Carcassonne basic game. All of the rules remain the same."
suggested edit - "This expansion has been developed for the Carcassonne basic game. All the basic game rules still apply."
I've seen the same existing text on the Spiel Promos too and perhaps it exists on many of the mini-expansion pages. If so, I think the following applies in those cases too.
I think that the existing text implies that there are no rule changes whatsoever. Whereas the actual situation, at least in the two examples I have found, is that there are additional rules over and above the basic game rules. Hence an alternative suggested edit - "This expansion has been developed for the Carcassonne basic game. All the basic game rules still apply in addition to the expansion rules below."

I used the following version of the disclaimer when present for pages after 2016 (when HiG started to include it in their mini expansions):

"This expansion has been developed for the Carcassonne basic game. All the basic game rules still apply in addition to the expansion rules below. You can combine it with other expansions - but at your own risk – that is, there will be no official rules for these combinations."

I used a simpler version for earlier pages:

"This expansion has been developed for the Carcassonne basic game. All the basic game rules still apply in addition to the expansion rules below."


Just out of curiosity I checked if the typos were caused by a typing mistakes when editing the pages... but they come directly from the ZMG rules. They were already in the original text we copied & pasted over to WICA. :o


Thanks again for your help.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 06, 2020, 02:10:19 AM
Thanks Murphy013!

I'm still busy with the Halflings page, adding applicable clarifications from C1 Halflings. I still have to update the images I borrowed from the C1 version to make them closed to C2.

I still have to write to HiG about the mistranslations in the English rules in 2. Placing a meeple, 3. Scoring a feature and the Crop Circle actions.

Then I will have to update:
* Halflings for C1--> Update all the rules according to C2
* Castles in Germany for C1/C2--> Update clarification on scoring a monastery surrounded by German castle tiles
* Game Reference --> Update the preparation with 2 Halflings sets.
* Scoring During the Game for C1/C2/WE --> Update scoring for Monastic Buildings/German castles/Gardens/Abbot with Halflings
* Scoring After the Game for C1/C2/WE --> Update scoring for Monastic Buildings/German castles/Gardens with Halflings
* Summary of Rule Sets and Changes --> Add latest changes with Halflings (if applicable - we have some misinterpretations)

A lot of work ahead, I'm afraid.

Cheers!

When you are updating store during the game...
Is it possible to give user opportunity to sort by "rules" except "chronological order" you mentioned that is used in comments in WiCa?



Note: This post was updated to keep track of the previous discussion.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 06, 2020, 02:20:15 AM
When you are updating store during the game...
Is it possible to give user opportunity to sort by "rules" except "chronological order" you mentioned that is used in comments in WiCa?

You mean to move Watchtowers and Tollhouses to the top?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 06, 2020, 07:34:42 AM
I'm sure about Watchtowers, because some of watchtowers count Meeples arround it. So if you score road and take Meeple back, Watchtower "owner" will not get points for meeple.

About Tollkeepers I'm not sure, because rules is that in part 1 you score tollkeeper and than road, but it can be done also in reverse order.

But whan I'm looking on this scoring page...

Somebody also wrote, that he forgot to get +1 point for fairy (I guess that was you).

Maybe, it can be good to reorganize it like Order of Play -> Order of Scoring.
- there are some basic sets:
1. Scoring before playing land tile
- Fairy, Rebuing meeple in Bathhouse, ...
2. Scoring when finished road
- watchtowers, tollkeepers, market of leipzig, etc. also fairy
3. Scoring when finished city
- watchrowes, etc.
4. Finish 3x3  - Close
- take meeple from bathhouse 0 point
- finish monastery, gardens, top, acrobats, etc.
5. Features depends on place where you put a land tile
- fruits, sheppard,
- here can be mentioned, that you can return abbot and how it's scored

Problem can be, that every new expansion brings someting new (what is good and it makes Carcassone so awesome).

I like WiCa, this is our family problems solver, when we play Carcassonne ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 06, 2020, 04:39:27 PM
Thanks for your kind works about WICA. I'm glad it is helpful for you.  ;D

This is the way I'd organize the Scoring pages according to the turn sequence. Here you can see a sample. All your feedback is welcome.



Scoring During the Game

Scoring at various points
    - Tower actions (Ransoming / Prisoner exchange)
    - Messages (at the end of each round of scoring scoring - not for points payments between players: meeple ransoming, bazaar bidding, meeple payback from bathhouse)
    - Robbers (after each scoring - no rogue points)

1. Placing a tile

* Round 1A - Beginning of turn:
    - Fairy 1-point bonus

* Round 1B - After drawing tile, before placing tile:
    - Wheel of Fortune actions

* Round 1C - After drawing and placing tile:
    - Wind rose 3 points

2. Placing a meeple

* Round 2 - End of “move wood” phase:
   - Step 2A: Move the Wood (Prologue) - Before placing a figures or tokens
       - Buying meeple back from bathhouse
   - Step 2B-1: Move the Wood (Phase 1) - Instead of placing figures or tokens (skipped if removed knight with princess tile)
      - Abbot removal scoring
      - Acrobat pyramid scoring
   - Step 2B-2: Move the Wood (Phase 2) - Placing phantoms (skipped if removed knight with princess tile)
      - (No scoring here)
   - Step 2C: Resolve Move the Wood - Rest of actions
      - Shepherd after "Guide flock to the stable" action
      - Fruit-bearing tree action

3. Scoring a feature

* Round 3 - Scoring phase:
   - Bonus scoring (pre):
        - Watchtower (for Road / City)
        - Tollhouse (for Road)
        - Gingerbread Man (for City)
   - Feature scoring:
        - Road:
             - Market of Leipzig Prologue
             - Core feature scoring (Feature + German cathedral + Inn)
             - Mage/Witch Modifiers
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings + German Castles + Bathhouses + Labyrinth bonus)
             - Market of Leipzig bonus (Wainwrights quarter)
        - City
             - Core feature scoring (Feature + Cathars/Siege/Besiegers + Cathedral)
             - Mage/Witch Modifiers
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings + German Castles + Bathhouses + Darmstadtium)
             - Market of Leipzig bonus (Coiners quarter)
        - Monastic Building (with a meeple placed as a monk or a heretic)
             - Core feature scoring (Feature + Vineyards)
             - Challenge resolution
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Market of Leipzig bonus (Bookinders quarter)
        - Field with Barn (barn placement / connection to field with barn)
             - Core feature scoring (completed cities / castles + pig + pig-herd tile + Cathars/Siege/Besiegers)
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - Castle
        - Baba Yaga's Hut
             - Core feature scoring (Feature)
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - Garden
             - Core feature scoring (Feature)
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - German castle
             - Core feature scoring (Feature)
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - German cathedral
             - Core feature scoring (Roads + Inns)
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
   - Bonus scoring (post):
        - Associated to features
            (- Little Buildings: included with features above - each feature type scores deferently)
           - Darmstadt church bonus (for Darmstadt churches)
        - Associated to figures:
           (- Markets of Leipzig: included with associated features above - each feature type scores deferently)
           - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus (all features)
           - Ringmaster points (all features)
           - Teacher bonus (all features)
   - Circus scoring

4. Additional actions

* Round 4 - End of turn:
   - Catapult points
   - Bazaar points



Scoring After the Game

1. Preparing for final scoring

   - Robber removal
   - Circus scoring (before scoring after the game)

2. Scoring incomplete features

   - Bonus scoring (pre):
        - Tollhouse (for Road)
   - Feature scoring:
        - Road:
             - Core feature scoring (Feature + German cathedral + Inn)
             - Mage/Witch Modifiers
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - City
             - La Porxada prologue
             - Core feature scoring (Feature + Cathars/Siege/Besiegers + Cathedral)
             - Mage/Witch Modifiers
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - Monastic Building (with a meeple placed as a monk or a heretic)
             - Core feature scoring (Feature + Vineyard = 0)
             - Challenge resolution (incomplete)
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - Castle (=0)
        - Baba Yaga's Hut
             - Core feature scoring (Feature)
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - Garden
             - Core feature scoring (Feature)
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - German castle
             - Core feature scoring (Feature)
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - German cathedral
             - Core feature scoring (Roads + Inns)
             - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
        - Shepherd
        - Acrobat pyramid (incomplete)
   - Bonus scoring (post):
        - Associated to features
            (- Little Buildings: included with features above - each feature type scores deferently)
            - Darmstadt church bonus (for Darmstadt churches)
        - Associated to figures:
           (- Markets of Leipzig: included with associated features above - each feature type scores deferently)
           - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus (all features)
           - Ringmaster points (all features)

3. Scoring unscored figures

   - Shepherds with their sheep (0 points)
   - Acrobat pyramid (meeples + fairy)

4. Scoring end-of-game features

   - Vodyanoy tile (trapped meeples)
   - Features:
        - Feature scoring:
           - German monastery / Dutch & Belgian monastery / Japanese building (with a meeple placed as an abbot)
               - Core feature scoring (Feature + Vineyard = 0)
               - Challenge resolution (incomplete)
               - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
           - Field
               - Core feature scoring (completed cities / castles + pig + pig-herd tile + Cathars/Siege/Besiegers)
               - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
               - Market of Leipzig bonus (Tanners quarter)
       - Bonus scoring (post):
           - Associated to features
               (- Little Buildings: included with features above - each feature type scores deferently)
           - Associated to figures:
              (- Markets of Leipzig: included with associated features above - each feature type scores deferently)
              - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus (all features)
              - Ringmaster points (all features)
   - Figures:
        - Figure scoring:
           - Barn
              - Core feature scoring (completed cities / castles + Cathars/Siege/Besiegers)
              - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)

5.Resolving final scoring

   - Trade good tokens
   - King tile
   - Rober Baron tile
   - Gold ingots
   - Fruit tokens

Edit: Updated phase 2. Placing a meeple.

Edit 2: The last circus scoring happens once the game has ended (there is no active player), no messages can be received.

Edit 3: The last circus scoring happens once the game has ended, robbers should have no effect.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 07, 2020, 05:59:35 AM
WOW. WOW. WOW.

Well, I thing this has to be clarify by more players, but I guess you are one of most informed about rules.

I don't have all of expansions (yet), so I can give you feedback only for expansions which I know and play.

1. In Acrobat scoring in Round 2 will be good to write that it's not possible scoring immediately after place a meeple
2. Round 3. City - maybe double points when you have a small castle around finished - I don;t have this expansion, but it was mentioned on "big city with 3 times scoring" in one of latest topic
3. That Fairy/Ringmaster/Teacher bonus can be shoed everywhere where it's possible, it will be better for players, you finish a city, so you check rules for it, and you see, a Fairy is hire +3 point. Usually people is not looking below ;-(
4. It's missing scoring issue when rebuy meeple from bathhouse, it has to be before Round 2 becaouse rebuyed meeple can be used in same turn.
5. Maybe phase 2 can be devided to
a) place a meeple - no scoring
b) when not placing meeple, you can - remove Abbot, count sheeps (here can be written, that seeps on tiles is counted also - Halflings C2 and River III?), and mentioned Acrobats?

Fruit-bearing tree action: This action isn't be located in Round 4?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 08, 2020, 04:32:28 AM
WOW. WOW. WOW.

Well, I thing this has to be clarify by more players, but I guess you are one of most informed about rules.

I don't have all of expansions (yet), so I can give you feedback only for expansions which I know and play.

Sorry if I overwhelmed you. I love to discuss all this. All this was easy to put together combining the info here:

* Scoring During the Game:
   - Rounds of Scoring summary (summarized scoring rounds and events) 
       http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)
   - Order of Play (detail of scoring events in each step)
       
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)
   - Scoring during the Game (detail of all the scoring steps per feature and applicable bonus)
       
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game)

* Scoring after the Game:
   - Game Reference (final sequence for final scoring)
       
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Game_Reference (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Game_Reference)
   - Scoring after the Game (detail of all the scoring steps per feature and applicable bonus)
       
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_After_the_Game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_After_the_Game)

1. In Acrobat scoring in Round 2 will be good to write that it's not possible scoring immediately after place a meeple

I updated phase 2. Placing a meeple to include the steps and scorings allowed. Hope this addresses your suggestion.

2. Round 3. City - maybe double points when you have a small castle around finished - I don;t have this expansion, but it was mentioned on "big city with 3 times scoring" in one of latest topic

Castles are a feature in itself and can belong to any player. The  "big city with 3 times scoring" was like a planet alignment, were all the castles and the city belongs to the same player. Lucky him!

3. That Fairy/Ringmaster/Teacher bonus can be shoed everywhere where it's possible, it will be better for players, you finish a city, so you check rules for it, and you see, a Fairy is hire +3 point. Usually people is not looking below ;-(

This can be an option. Let me see.

4. It's missing scoring issue when rebuy meeple from bathhouse, it has to be before Round 2 becaouse rebuyed meeple can be used in same turn.

I updated phase 2. Placing a meeple to include the steps and scorings allowed. Added the bathhouse pay back. You are right. I skipped it by error.

5. Maybe phase 2 can be devided to
a) place a meeple - no scoring
b) when not placing meeple, you can - remove Abbot, count sheeps (here can be written, that seeps on tiles is counted also - Halflings C2 and River III?), and mentioned Acrobats?

I updated phase 2. Placing a meeple to include the steps and scorings allowed. Hope this addresses your suggestion.

Fruit-bearing tree action: This action isn't be located in Round 4?

Nope. this is at the end of phase 2. Placing a meeple too.

Thanks for your suggestions.  :(y)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 08, 2020, 04:41:00 AM
Thanks. Children came to Easter. We will play with some new expansions. I can check it ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 08, 2020, 07:36:27 AM
Hi stano.lacko,

After checking your comments, here you are a major revision with the following:
- All the bonus replicated for each feature
- Messages marked at the required places
- Robber actions at the required places
- Feature triggering castle scoring are also indicated

Manageable? Too much overload? Any thoughts?

Thank you in advance and have fun in Easter!

Cheers!



Scoring During the Game

Actions happening at various points
    - MESSAGES (at the end of each round of scoring - not rounds of scoring for payments between players: meeple ransoming, bazaar bidding, meeple payback from bathhouse)
    - ROBBERS / ROBBER CHOICE (after each scoring - no rogue points)

Scoring at any point during your turn (happening only once even in a double turn granted by the builder)
    - Tower actions:
         - Ransoming a meeple
              - One player adds points  + ROBBERS
              - One player subtracts points (negative points are NOT allowed)
         - Prisoner Exchange (=0)

1. Placing a tile

* Round 1A - Beginning of turn:
    - Fairy 1-point bonus
        - Score bonus + ROBBER CHOICE (there may be multiple options with acrobats)
        - Iterate as required: MESSAGES (#1A) + ROBBERS

* Round 1B - After drawing tile, before placing tile:
    - Wheel of Fortune actions
        - Score actions from the Wheel of Fortune + ROBBER CHOICE
        - Score meeples in Wheel of Fortune + ROBBER CHOICE
        - Iterate as required: MESSAGES (#1B) + ROBBERS

* Round 1C - After drawing and placing tile:
    - Wind rose 3 points
        - Score tile + ROBBERS
        - Iterate as required: MESSAGES (#1C) + ROBBERS

2. Placing a meeple

* Round 2 - End of “move wood” phase:
   - Step 2A: Move the Wood (Prologue) - Before placing a figures or tokens
       - Buying meeple back from bathhouse
           - Subtract points (negative points are allowed)
   - Step 2B-1: Move the Wood (Phase 1) - Instead of placing figures or tokens (skipped if removed knight with princess tile)
      - Abbot removal scoring
           - Score meeple + ROBBERS
      - Acrobat pyramid scoring
           - Score pyramid + ROBBER CHOICE
   - Step 2B-2: Move the Wood (Phase 2) - Placing phantoms (skipped if removed knight with princess tile)
      - (No scoring here)
   - Step 2C: Resolve Move the Wood - Rest of actions
      - Shepherd after "Guide flock to the stable" action
           - Score shephers(s) + (shared) flock including printed sheep + ROBBERS (CHOICE) (Although all players score involved the same)
      - Fruit-bearing tree actions
           - Harvest fruit + ROBBERS
           - Sell fruit + ROBBERS
      - Iterate as required: MESSAGES (#2) + ROBBERS

3. Scoring a feature

* Round 3 - Scoring phase:
   - Feature scoring:
        - Road:
             - Bonus scoring (pre):
                - Iterate Tollhouses + ROBBERS
                - Iterate Watchtowers + ROBBER CHOICE (if several meeples present)
             - Feature scoring --> on total score trigger castle (next scoring) + ROBBER CHOICE
                - Market of Leipzig Prologue
                - Core feature scoring (Feature + German cathedral + Inn)
                - Mage/Witch Modifiers
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings + German Castles + Bathhouses + Labyrinth bonus)
             - Teacher bonus (based on feature scoring) + ROBBERS
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Market of Leipzig bonus (Wainwrights quarter)  + ROBBERS
                - Ringmaster bonus points + ROBBERS
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus + ROBBERS
        - City:
             - Bonus scoring (pre):
                - Gingerbread Man (when city completed) + ROBBER CHOICE
                - Iterate Watchtowers + ROBBER CHOICE (if several meeples present)
             - Feature scoring --> on total score trigger castle (next scoring) + ROBBER CHOICE
                - Core feature scoring (Feature + Cathars/Siege/Besiegers + Cathedral)
                - Mage/Witch Modifiers
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings + German Castles + Bathhouses + Darmstadtium)
             - Teacher bonus (based on feature scoring) + ROBBERS
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Market of Leipzig bonus (Coiners quarter) + ROBBERS
                - Ringmaster bonus points + ROBBERS
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus + ROBBERS
         - Monastic Building (with a meeple placed as a monk or a heretic):
             - Feature scoring --> on total score trigger castle (next scoring) + ROBBER CHOICE
                - Core feature scoring (Feature + Vineyards)
                - Challenge resolution
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Teacher bonus (based on feature scoring) + ROBBERS
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Darmstadt church bonus (for Darmstadt churches)  + ROBBER (CHOICE)
                - Market of Leipzig bonus (Bookinders quarter) + ROBBER CHOICE
                - Ringmaster bonus points + ROBBERS
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus + ROBBERS
         - Field with Barn (barn placement / connection to field with barn)
             - Feature scoring + ROBBER CHOICE
                - Core feature scoring (completed cities / castles + pig + pig-herd tile + Cathars/Siege/Besiegers)
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Teacher bonus (based on feature scoring) + ROBBERS
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points + ROBBERS
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus + ROBBERS
         - Castle (overlapping castle fiefs will be scored with the same scoring):
             - Feature scoring --> on total score trigger castle (next scoring) + ROBBER CHOICE
                - Core feature scoring (from triggering feature)                 
             - Teacher bonus (based on feature scoring) + ROBBERS
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points + ROBBERS
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus + ROBBERS
        - Baba Yaga's Hut:
             - Feature scoring --> on total score trigger castle (next scoring) + ROBBER CHOICE
                 - Core feature scoring (Feature)
                 - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Teacher bonus (based on feature scoring) + ROBBERS
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points + ROBBERS
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus + ROBBERS
        - Garden:
             - Feature scoring --> on total score trigger castle (next scoring) + ROBBER CHOICE
                - Core feature scoring (Feature)
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Teacher bonus (based on feature scoring) + ROBBERS
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points + ROBBERS
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus + ROBBERS
        - German castle:
             - Feature scoring --> on total score trigger castle (next scoring) + ROBBER CHOICE
                - Core feature scoring (Feature)
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Teacher bonus (based on feature scoring) + ROBBERS
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points + ROBBERS
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus + ROBBERS
        - German cathedral:
             - Feature scoring --> on total score trigger castle (next scoring) + ROBBER CHOICE
                - Core feature scoring (Roads + Inns)
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Teacher bonus (based on feature scoring) + ROBBERS
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points + ROBBERS
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus + ROBBERS
   - Figure scoring:
        - Circus scoring:
             - Score big top + ROBBER CHOICE
        - Gingerbread Man scoring if moved (no city was completed):
            - Score Gingerbread Man + ROBBER CHOICE
   - Iterate as required: MESSAGES (#3) + ROBBERS

4. Additional actions

* Round 4 - End of turn:
   - Catapult points
        - Score Catapult points + ROBBERS
        - Iterate as required: MESSAGES (#4) + ROBBERS
   - Bazaar points
        - Score bazaar payments
              - One player adds points  + ROBBERS
              - One player subtracts points (negative points are allowed)



Scoring After the Game

1. Preparing for final scoring

   - Messenger removal
       - Add messenger points and remove them from scoreboard
   - Robber removal
       - Score for remaining robbers on scoreboard
   - Circus scoring (last scoring at the end of the game)
        - Score big top

2. Scoring incomplete features

   - Feature scoring:
        - Road:
             - Bonus scoring (pre):
                - Iterate Tollhouses
             - Feature scoring
                - Core feature scoring (Feature + German cathedral + Inn)
                - Mage/Witch Modifiers
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus
        - City:
             - Feature scoring
                - La Porxada prologue
                - Core feature scoring (Feature + Cathars/Siege/Besiegers + Cathedral)
                - Mage/Witch Modifiers
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus
         - Monastic Building (with a meeple placed as a monk or a heretic):
             - Feature scoring
                - Core feature scoring (Feature + Vineyards=0)
                - Challenge resolution (incomplete --> no effect)
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus
         - Castle (=0)
         - Baba Yaga's Hut:
             - Feature scoring
                 - Core feature scoring (Feature)
                 - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus
        - Garden:
             - Feature scoring
                - Core feature scoring (Feature)
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus
        - German castle:
             - Feature scoring
                - Core feature scoring (Feature)
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus
        - German cathedral:
             - Feature scoring
                - Core feature scoring (Roads + Inns)
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
             - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus

3. Scoring unscored figures

    - Remaining figure scoring:
        - Shepherd:
             - Figure scoring:
                - Score shepherds and sheep in fields, including printed sheep (0 points)
        - Acrobat pyramid:
             - Figure scoring:
                - Score acrobats in incomplete pyramids

4. Scoring end-of-game features

   - Features:
        - Vodyanoy tile (trapped meeples)
            - Subtract points to affected players
        - German monastery / Dutch & Belgian monastery / Japanese building (with a meeple placed as an abbot)
            - Feature scoring:
                - Core feature scoring (Feature + Vineyard = 0)
                - Challenge resolution (incomplete)
                - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
            - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Ringmaster bonus points
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus
        - Field:
            - Feature scoring:
               - Core feature scoring (completed cities / castles + pig + pig-herd tile + Cathars/Siege/Besiegers)
               - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)
            - Bonus scoring (post):
                - Market of Leipzig bonus (Tanners quarter)
                - Ringmaster bonus points
                - Fairy 3-point scoring bonus
   - Figures:
        - Barn:
           - Figure scoring:
              - Core feature scoring (completed cities / castles + Cathars/Siege/Besiegers)
              - Feature bonus (Little Buildings)

5.Resolving final scoring

   - Fruit tokens
   - Gold ingots
   - King tile
   - Rober Baron tile
   - Trade good tokens

Edit: The last circus scoring happens once the game has ended (there is no active player), no messages can be received.

Edit 2: The last circus scoring happens once the game has ended, robbers should have no effect.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on April 08, 2020, 08:54:52 AM
"MESSAGES (after circus scoring)". At the end of the game, the circus is not scored during a turn.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 08, 2020, 12:16:26 PM
My bad. You are right. There is no active player at that moment so no messages can be received.

Correction right away to remove the unnecessary action!

Thanks again!
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on April 08, 2020, 01:37:30 PM
But the robber can rob at the end of the game circus points?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 08, 2020, 01:47:01 PM
Is it possible to join Rebuing meeple from bathouse and buing back prisoner to the same step?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 08, 2020, 05:45:23 PM
But the robber can rob at the end of the game circus points?

When I removed MESSAGES from Preparing for final scoring, I started to remove ROBBERS but then stopped as I wanted to think it through and not follow my first impulse.

The more I ponder it, the more I think ROBBERS should be removed from Preparing for final scoring too. These transition actions are not part of the game so any normal mechanics from the game should stay behind. The big top scoring is sitting on the border but its last scoring is not happening during a normal turn, so it should be scored without robbers (the same as without messages).
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 08, 2020, 06:49:41 PM
Is it possible to join Rebuing meeple from bathouse and buing back prisoner to the same step?

As per the rules, you may buy back a meeple from a bathhouse at the very beginning of 2. Placing a Meeple so you can place it right away in the same turn.

Regarding ransoming a captured meeple, the rules do not state a specific moment. And even the official clarifications state that you can only buy back a captured meeple once during your turn (this could happened at any time), even if it is double turn. The only thing is that if you do it before placing any other meeple, you can place your recovered meeple right away during the same normal or double turn. You may need to wait until you score to buy back a meeple because you cannot have negative points as a result of paying ransom for your meeple.

So putting the captured meeple buy-back along with the meeple buy-back from a bathhouse would limit the flexibility granted to the former. The wording is very explicit in The Barer-Surgeons and whereas it is not that precise in The Tower.

You can revisit the rules here:
* The captured meeple buy back: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#2._Placing_a_meeple_or_a_tower_floor (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower#2._Placing_a_meeple_or_a_tower_floor)
* The meeple buy-back form a bathhouse:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#2._Buy_your_meeple_back (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Barber-Surgeons#2._Buy_your_meeple_back)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: totor66 on April 16, 2020, 10:38:44 AM
I was thinking about order of play when I was in the selector and I guess it could use the abbot in others for CII

Could you useful for some sequences between expansions
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 16, 2020, 04:45:33 PM
The selector shows the expansions by release date except for a few cases.

Can you give an example? Didn't understand your second sentence.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: totor66 on April 18, 2020, 11:08:46 AM
Sorry for being not so clear.

I think we should be able to tick a box to put the abbot to see the significance it can add when we mix a bunch of expansions. Now the option removing abbot early is not shown in the round of scoring and it could be useful.

Like with setup with barber surgeon for example

Edit: sorry I'm bling it is already there, I don't know where I looked the first time  :-X
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 18, 2020, 05:55:47 PM
No problem... A lot of information crammed there. ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 18, 2020, 06:02:05 PM
Hi stano.lacko and all,

Here you are a first draft of page Scoring During the Game organized following the steps in the Order of Play. You can also see that all the bonuses have been replicated in each feature so you don't have to remember the order of evaluation or when to apply messages. Messages have been explained at the top not to insert them 6 times in the same page.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test)

These are some questions for you:

1. What do you think of this format compared to the current Scoring During the Game page available here?

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game)

2. Which one do you think it is more useful during a game?

3. Which one do you find simpler to use?

4. Shall we keep both?

5. Are they targeted to different types of players?

All your comments are welcome.

Cheers!
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 19, 2020, 02:13:15 AM
Hi it's wondreful.
I think, now it's clear when and by witch rule you can get points.
Here are answers to your questions

1. What do you think of this format compared to the current Scoring During the Game page available here?
- format is very good and understable

2. Which one do you think it is more useful during a game?
- for me new one. I think also for players start to play new expansions.

3. Which one do you find simpler to use?
- absolutely new one

4. Shall we keep both?
- this is not question for me ;-)

5. Are they targeted to different types of players?
- I guess that if some player cames to WiCa, he is not clear with rules and he is going to check it. So I thing new one is more useful for this check of scoring rules.

Thank you for this update!

We are going to play now ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 19, 2020, 03:11:56 PM
Did you enjoy your game?

I think this new format is very detailed and more verbose that the previous one.

I'm thinking about additional options:
* Hidding phases with no relevant scoring events  in order to avoid the overwhelming info a beginner may not require. 
* Possibly adding some actions connected to scoring, such as:
   - Adding notes about scoring evaluation order:
       - For multiple features involving one or multiple players
       - For bonus points (pre/post)
   - Adding notes about the selection of features when:
       - Scoring one or multiple castles
       - Scoring the teacher bonus
   - Sending a meeple to a bathhouse (connected to feature scoring)
   - Deploying meeples to Carcassonne and back (connected to feature scoring)
   - Distributing goods tokens or gold ingots (connected to the scoring after the game)
   - Giving King and Robber Baron tiles to players (connected to the scoring after the game)

When all this is decided, I will make an attempt at a similar page about Scoring After the Game.  ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 19, 2020, 11:41:20 PM
Yeah, we still not finish it, because we play all expansions ;-)

With Halflings (this really slow down game, because before them every player have tile in hand from deck to prepare to his turn).

And of course we forgot to play fairy ;-) Dragon ate most of all meeple and than somebody tell, oh we have fairy on table not in game ;-)

I have suggestion on new Scoring is not described when is Dispatch of Message, that it's scoring description page, maybe it will be good to write it with description of page, when you dispatch message.

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 09:24:56 AM
Yeah, we still not finish it, because we play all expansions ;-)

With Halflings (this really slow down game, because before them every player have tile in hand from deck to prepare to his turn).

As a house rule, you could let players still have a tile in hand and place any of them (a halfling or a tile just drawn). If you place a halfling, then you don't draw a tile next turn. This way you are providing more options to the players. You could do the same for abbeys and German castles.

And of course we forgot to play fairy ;-) Dragon ate most of all meeple and than somebody tell, oh we have fairy on table not in game ;-)

We sometimes forget to score the 1-point turn start bonus.  :o

I have suggestion on new Scoring is not described when is Dispatch of Message, that it's scoring description page, maybe it will be good to write it with description of page, when you dispatch message.

The moments when you receive dispatch are detailed as last the action of their corresponding round of scoring (marked with the back of a message tile). The details of the scoring are only described once at the top. Do you mean to replicate the Dispatch scoring info at the end of the 6 rounds of scoring?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 21, 2020, 01:25:52 PM
No, maybe just put it to bold that text:
"if one of your scoring figures moved ended up on a dark space of the scoreboard, you may draw a Message tile"
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 21, 2020, 02:02:28 PM
I tried a version of your suggestion. Please check it out.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Vital Pluymers on April 22, 2020, 11:10:55 PM
Hi stano.lacko and all,

Here you are a first draft of page Scoring During the Game organized following the steps in the Order of Play. You can also see that all the bonuses have been replicated in each feature so you don't have to remember the order of evaluation or when to apply messages. Messages have been explained at the top not to insert them 6 times in the same page.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test)

These are some questions for you:

1. What do you think of this format compared to the current Scoring During the Game page available here?

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game)

2. Which one do you think it is more useful during a game?

3. Which one do you find simpler to use?

4. Shall we keep both?

5. Are they targeted to different types of players?

All your comments are welcome.

Cheers!

I like the new version also better! ????
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 24, 2020, 03:19:17 AM
I tried a version of your suggestion. Please check it out.

Perfect. Now is abosultely clear what means Dispatch of message. And it also doesn't enlarge height of page, becaouse message tile is bigger tnat current text.

But I have a question.
1. When you use princes and remove kight, you are not able to use phantom
-yes
2. When you return abbot or accrobats, only allowed placing meeple is phantom in phase 2B-2
-yes
3. You are able to to take sheeps from fields when you put meeple? Is there change between C1 and C2?
-we were playing that if not place a meeple than you are able to take sheeps from field
4. You are able to dispatch message
a) fairy bonus
b) place wind rose tile
c) before resolve finished features (affection by sheeps, acrobats, abbot, fruits)
d) when I reboy in step2 my meeple in bathhouse and I move back one of scoring meeple and goest to dark place in scoreboard I still dispatch message?
e) after resolving all of finished features and moved big top?

Now my suggestion:
I don't understand "Feature scoring -> Castle token image Teacher image" when I click to Castle or Techer link is to file.
- maybe it will be better to describe as dispatch message after fairy bonus, or others where allowed to dispatch message.
I thing castle have to be more described. When you finish city, there is no informations about multiplying scoring points by neighbour castle.

Sorry for make you more jobs, but I ask children to read it and they were sometimes confused.

We don't play Robbers becaouse we don't have this expansion, but I think there will be more questions and suggestions ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DrMeeple on April 24, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
Hi stano.lacko and all,

Here you are a first draft of page Scoring During the Game organized following the steps in the Order of Play. You can also see that all the bonuses have been replicated in each feature so you don't have to remember the order of evaluation or when to apply messages. Messages have been explained at the top not to insert them 6 times in the same page.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test)

These are some questions for you:

1. What do you think of this format compared to the current Scoring During the Game page available here?

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_the_Game)

2. Which one do you think it is more useful during a game?

3. Which one do you find simpler to use?

4. Shall we keep both?

5. Are they targeted to different types of players?

All your comments are welcome.

Cheers!

I love it too!!  ;D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 24, 2020, 05:30:57 PM
I tried a version of your suggestion. Please check it out.

Perfect. Now is abosultely clear what means Dispatch of message. And it also doesn't enlarge height of page, becaouse message tile is bigger tnat current text.

I'm glad, the approach to your suggestion was satisfactory for you.  ;)

Oooooh! Some questions next... Great!  ;D

But I have a question.
1. When you use princes and remove kight, you are not able to use phantom
-yes
2. When you return abbot or accrobats, only allowed placing meeple is phantom in phase 2B-2
-yes
3. You are able to to take sheeps from fields when you put meeple? Is there change between C1 and C2?
-we were playing that if not place a meeple than you are able to take sheeps from field
4. You are able to dispatch message
a) fairy bonus
b) place wind rose tile
c) before resolve finished features (affection by sheeps, acrobats, abbot, fruits)
d) when I reboy in step2 my meeple in bathhouse and I move back one of scoring meeple and goest to dark place in scoreboard I still dispatch message?
e) after resolving all of finished features and moved big top?

Please, find the answers in this post in order to avoid mixing stuff in the current topic, if you don't mind:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4526.msg67864#msg67864 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4526.msg67864#msg67864)

Now my suggestion:
I don't understand "Feature scoring -> Castle token image Teacher image" when I click to Castle or Techer link is to file.
- maybe it will be better to describe as dispatch message after fairy bonus, or others where allowed to dispatch message.

Each image in MediaWiki is clickable by default and usually takes you to the page describing the image file. Don't let this mislead you.

The images on the "Feature scoring" banner only emphasize that those are the points scored for the feature itself and that...
- A robber may steal after scoring the core points corresponding to that feature (each bonus is scored and stolen individually as well)
- A castle may score if triggered by this feature.
- A player may score as teacher bonus if this is feature scored first after getting the teacher.

All this effort is only to indicate that bonus points corresponding to figures (or tokens) triggered by the feature, and won't be visible to a castle or to the teacher.

Let me know if this clarifies the whole thing or you have any suggestion about it.

I thing castle have to be more described. When you finish city, there is no informations about multiplying scoring points by neighbour castle.

Castles do not multiply the points by themselves. It all depends on who the castle and who own the feature triggering the castle scoring:
* If the owner are the same, you will see it as a scoring multiplier
* If the owner is different, you will see someone taking advance of your effort to close the feature.

So the scoring of a castle does not include any of these appreciations as they are more related to the strategy during a game than to the scoring itself: you can use castles to boost your scoring or to steal points from others. 

Please let me know your thoughts.

Sorry for make you more jobs, but I ask children to read it and they were sometimes confused.

We don't play Robbers becaouse we don't have this expansion, but I think there will be more questions and suggestions ;-)

Your questions and your feedback is most welcome. It is a great exercise of proofreading and testing.

No problem if some changes are derived from this process, especially if it leads to easy-to-understand scoring reference pages.  ;D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 25, 2020, 01:20:39 AM
I tried a version of your suggestion. Please check it out.

Perfect. Now is abosultely clear what means Dispatch of message. And it also doesn't enlarge height of page, becaouse message tile is bigger tnat current text.

I'm glad, the approach to your suggestion was satisfactory for you.  ;)

Oooooh! Some questions next... Great!  ;D

Now my suggestion:
I don't understand "Feature scoring -> Castle token image Teacher image" when I click to Castle or Techer link is to file.
- maybe it will be better to describe as dispatch message after fairy bonus, or others where allowed to dispatch message.

Each image in MediaWiki is clickable by default and usually takes you to the page describing the image file. Don't let this mislead you.

The images on the "Feature scoring" banner only emphasize that those are the points scored for the feature itself and that...
- A robber may steal after scoring the core points corresponding to that feature (each bonus is scored and stolen individually as well)
- A castle may score if triggered by this feature.
- A player may score as teacher bonus if this is feature scored first after getting the teacher.

All this effort is only to indicate that bonus points corresponding to figures (or tokens) triggered by the feature, and won't be visible to a castle or to the teacher.

Let me know if this clarifies the whole thing or you have any suggestion about it.

I thing castle have to be more described. When you finish city, there is no informations about multiplying scoring points by neighbour castle.

Castles do not multiply the points by themselves. It all depends on who the castle and who own the feature triggering the castle scoring:
* If the owner are the same, you will see it as a scoring multiplier
* If the owner is different, you will see someone taking advance of your effort to close the feature.

So the scoring of a castle does not include any of these appreciations as they are more related to the strategy during a game than to the scoring itself: you can use castles to boost your scoring or to steal points from others. 

Please let me know your thoughts.

Ok. I thing that it can be described like bonus scoring (prolog) for Watchtowers or bonus scoring (epilog) for Fairy, Ringmaster etc.

Maybe it's not bonus scoring but Triggering scoring like in city
Four sections:
1. Prolog (watchtowers)
2. Feature scoring - all City, Cathar, Mage, Witch, Little Buildings, German Castles, Bathhouse, Darmstadium (it's enought)
3. Triggering scoring - new section
- Castle
 - here can be described like if castle is yours, double points
- Teacher (described in epilog)
- Robber
4. Epilog

Than that symbols on beginning not be necessary and will be understable rules for scoring. And not be forgotten ;-)

New suggection:
Why not to add symbol of robber to points table column for example:
Fairy bonus - 3 points for feature -> Triggering Robber

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 25, 2020, 06:10:33 AM
Hi!

Before reading the previous post, I was preparing a new update for the new Scoring During the Game test:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test)

I have included the following:
* Conditional visibility of empty steps in a phase if no scoring actions have to be shown.
* Changed step headers from grey to the phase color to reduce the number of grey bars.
* Updated the wording in the headers of steps 2A, 2B-1 and 2B-2.
* Added restrictions related to negative points in actions subtracting points

Thank you for all your suggestions and comments on the forum and on Slack.

Cheers! 
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 28, 2020, 10:54:44 AM
Huston we have a problem.
It's called The Land Surveyours ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 29, 2020, 08:26:30 AM
Huston we have a problem.
It's called The Land Surveyours ;-)

Hi mutated stano.lacko!!!

This is not a problem. This is just more work for the weekend! ;D

I was trying to classify the different Scoring Tiles to see where to add them in the Scoring During the Game Test page. It is wonderful HiG didn't even give hint on how these tiles would interact with Inns and Cathedrals, for starters.

This is my first try at grouping them:

A) Majority modifiers: (if included, we should include also the deployment of meeples from the City of Carcassonne and hills)
   - Citizens’ Jury (1): Majority modifier for cities (all meeples share the majority)

B) Tile count modifiers: (tiles are not considered for scoring - before any modifier)
   - Bad Neighborhood (1): Tile count decreased for cities (semicircular segments not considered in scoring)

C) Core feature scoring modified:
   - Increased/decreased conditionally points per tile:
      - Peasant Uprising (1): Points per tile decreased for roads (-1 point per tile with farmhouse)
      - Highway (1): Fixed points for roads (=5 points)
      - Hermit Monastery (1): Points per tile decreased for monasteries (-1 point per city tile with city segments)
      - Pilgrimage Route (1): Points per tile increased for monasteries (+1 point per tile with road segment)
   - Unconditional modifications:
      - Siege (1): adds extra point to coats of arms (+1 point per coat of arms)
      - Street Fair (1): adds extra scoring to road per tile (+1 point per road tile - they use "x2" instead of "[road tile] +1" to avoid confusion IMHO)

D) Feature bonus: (Applied after modifiers)
      - Wealth (2): adds bonus to city and monastery (+3 points)
      - Poverty (2): adds penalty to city and road (-3 points)

So I would include all these as part of feature scoring right after the basic points for the tiles:
- Group A) only when other majority items are considered (hills, deployment from carcassonne,...)
- Group B) affects not only the basic scoring but may affect the number of tiles considered by other modifiers and bonuses based on the number of tiles if we strictly consider the rules: "During the scoring of a city, these completing city segments are not part of the scoring and do not get you any points."
- Group C) may be added after the basic points per tile
    - For roads: Segments on German cathedrals, bridges, tunnels, labyrinths and ferries should be added before these scoring tiles
- Group D) may be added as feature bonus (they are applied after the core feature scoring is done)

Any comments?

Cheers!
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 29, 2020, 09:21:21 AM
I joined X-Men so I had to choose new name so I used the name which I use on czech CarcassonneForum.cz.

So Idea looks nice.

Anyway, how about that Castle? Why not to put it like Teacher?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Vital Pluymers on April 29, 2020, 10:20:04 AM
Hi!

Before reading the previous post, I was preparing a new update for the new Scoring During the Game test:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test)

I have included the following:
* Conditional visibility of empty steps in a phase if no scoring actions have to be shown.
* Changed step headers from grey to the phase color to reduce the number of grey bars.
* Updated the wording in the headers of steps 2A, 2B-1 and 2B-2.
* Added restrictions related to negative points in actions subtracting points

Thank you for all your suggestions and comments on the forum and on Slack.

Cheers!

Such an impressive document! Amazing work! :-)

I have a few remarks we should discuss:

1)
As multiple meeples can be present on a Watchtower, strictly speaking it should be the Robber+ symbol rather than the Robber symbol. Nevertheless, it's true that the score would be always the same whatever meeple he would rob.
The same can be said for all the Markets of Leipzig.
One could argue that it is irrelevant because the scores don't change, but the same can be stated with regards to the scoring of the Shepherds or the monks on the Darmstadt church. In these cases, a Robber+ symbol is used.

2)
i) For Ringmasters though, it is a different case. Theoretically, it is possible that a scored feature contains multiple Ringmasters. And these Ringmasters can score differently (in case of a road or a city) depending on the number of circus tiles around them. So, here it definitely should be the Robber+ symbol.
ii) The same is true for the Tollkeepers. A road can have several Tollkeepers with a different toll value. So also here it should be the Robber+ symbol.
   

3) Watchtowers with meeple symbol vs Big Top. Both mechanics give points for the number of meeples on the tile itself and the eight spaces around. What is the logic of including meeples on castles for the scoring of the Big Top, but excluding them for the scoring of the Watchtower? I think for the sake of consistency, it should be scored the same.

4) The last step of the feature scoring for roads is: Markets of Leipzig: Player sending their only meeple on the road to Leipzig -> (x0) points
If the multiplication times 0 is part of the feature scoring, it would imply that robbers, the teacher or the neighbouring castle(s) would also receive 0 points in case the player having the majority would decide to send his only meeple to Leipzig. I don't think this would be correct.

5) In the C2 rules for Robbers is written: If playing with other expansions, please take the following notes into consideration: The Messengers: If either your messenger or your scoring meeple lands on a dark space as a result of your robber stealing points from another player, draw a message tile.
i) Is this a seperate scoring event? In that case, the Messengers should be added after the Robber scoring topic.
ii) Or is it just part of the scoring round in which the robber is stealing the points? Then nothing should be changed in the scoring file as Messengers are added after every scoring round.
I think whatever is the outcome, this remark with regards to Robbers should be added to the playing rules of the Messenger expansion.

Curious for your thoughts :-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 29, 2020, 04:47:21 PM
Hi!

Before reading the previous post, I was preparing a new update for the new Scoring During the Game test:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test)

I have included the following:
* Conditional visibility of empty steps in a phase if no scoring actions have to be shown.
* Changed step headers from grey to the phase color to reduce the number of grey bars.
* Updated the wording in the headers of steps 2A, 2B-1 and 2B-2.
* Added restrictions related to negative points in actions subtracting points

Thank you for all your suggestions and comments on the forum and on Slack.

Cheers!

Such an impressive document! Amazing work! :-)

Thanks! Hope it is useful and can be useful to both newbies and experts in the subject matter.  ;)

I have a few remarks we should discuss:

1)
As multiple meeples can be present on a Watchtower, strictly speaking it should be the Robber+ symbol rather than the Robber symbol. Nevertheless, it's true that the score would be always the same whatever meeple he would rob.
The same can be said for all the Markets of Leipzig.
One could argue that it is irrelevant because the scores don't change, but the same can be stated with regards to the scoring of the Shepherds or the monks on the Darmstadt church. In these cases, a Robber+ symbol is used.

I pondered all this, and my take was the following:
* Watchtowers: I used Robber because, even if there are several multiple meeples on the watchtower tile, each meeple will score the bonus individually. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.
* Markets of Leipzig: I used Robber because, even if there are multiple meeples in Leipzig, each meeple will score the bonus individually. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.
* Shepherd: I used Robber+ because the scoring of various shepherds in the same field is triggered together. So robbers may have a choice to make between several scoring figures even if they steal the same number of points.
* Darmstadt church bonus: I used Robber+ because several meeples may share the majority and get the bonus. So robbers may have a choice to make between several scoring figures even if they steal the same number of points.

I agree with you that the case of the shepherd and the Darmstadt bonus is a case on the edge.

Do you agree?

2)
i) For Ringmasters though, it is a different case. Theoretically, it is possible that a scored feature contains multiple Ringmasters. And these Ringmasters can score differently (in case of a road or a city) depending on the number of circus tiles around them. So, here it definitely should be the Robber+ symbol.
ii) The same is true for the Tollkeepers. A road can have several Tollkeepers with a different toll value. So also here it should be the Robber+ symbol.

My take was the following following the lead of the previous block:
* Ringmasters: I used Robber because, even if there are several multiple ringmasters on the same feature, each meeple will score the bonus individually and the scoring may differ, as you say, depending on their location. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.
* Tollkeepers: I used Robber because, even if there are several multiple tollhouses at the ends of a road, each tollhouse will score the bonus individually. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.

In general, as you can see, bonus points scored individually are tagged with Robber, and those involving several figures in the same scoring are tagged with Robber+.

One of the things in my to do list was to include notes about how bonus points are scored. So far I only indicated in some of them the bonus affects a "Player" meeting certain condition, not "Players". I have to review the wording to make this consistent and add some comments.

What do you think?

3) Watchtowers with meeple symbol vs Big Top. Both mechanics give points for the number of meeples on the tile itself and the eight spaces around. What is the logic of including meeples on castles for the scoring of the Big Top, but excluding them for the scoring of the Watchtower? I think for the sake of consistency, it should be scored the same.

Ha ha ha! You finally noticed. When updating some weeks ago the rules about the interaction of castles and the big top, I realized this would be the same case for watchtowers. But of course, the Watchtowers rules do not cover anything but the base game. A shame!

I agree with you, but was keeping that debate for a little later. Now it is on the table.

I sent some question to Cundco about Exp. 10 on December 11th, before I realized about this, and I'm still waiting for an answer. I have prepared a longer list since and even I was thinking of opening a thread with open question so HiG ends up hating us deeply. We can start just collecting all the footnotes in WICA with padlock icons to start with. >:D

4) The last step of the feature scoring for roads is: Markets of Leipzig: Player sending their only meeple on the road to Leipzig -> (x0) points
If the multiplication times 0 is part of the feature scoring, it would imply that robbers, the teacher or the neighbouring castle(s) would also receive 0 points in case the player having the majority would decide to send his only meeple to Leipzig. I don't think this would be correct.

I agree that we have a problem with castles.

Let's see each case separately when you complete a road and decide to send your only meeple on it to Leipzig:
* Robbers: Since you score 0 points, a robber next to any of your scoring figures would steal nothing and would stay where it is.
* Teacher: Since you score 0 points, the teacher won't get any points either. As per the rules: "When the next feature is scored, the player with the teacher scores the same number of points."
* Castles: You score 0 points but a castle nearby could score the full points for this road, since castles score the points the feature is worth, not the points scored by the players with the majority, if any (the feature could be unoccupied and even so the castle would score for it).

I assume, I will have to figure out how to express this in a simple way since we have to dissociate:
* The points tallied by the feature, that is, the points the feature is worth
* The points scored by the player(s) with the majority (if any), that is, the points scored on the scoreboard

A mayor in a city with no coats of arms or in a castle shows this. The mayor gets 0 points but a nearby castle could score the full points for the feature.

So this means that on the table we will have to indicate:
* Points tallied for the feature --> These would go to a castle nearby too
* Points scored for the feature (if there are any special cases: mayors, meeple sent to Leipzig) --> These would go to the scoreboard, a robber, the teacher

Any comments?

5) In the C2 rules for Robbers is written: If playing with other expansions, please take the following notes into consideration: The Messengers: If either your messenger or your scoring meeple lands on a dark space as a result of your robber stealing points from another player, draw a message tile.
i) Is this a seperate scoring event? In that case, the Messengers should be added after the Robber scoring topic.
ii) Or is it just part of the scoring round in which the robber is stealing the points? Then nothing should be changed in the scoring file as Messengers are added after every scoring round.
I think whatever is the outcome, this remark with regards to Robbers should be added to the playing rules of the Messenger expansion.

The points stolen by a robber are circumscribed to the round of scoring the scoring is happening. So we are talking about option ii). That's why the message is the last action every round of scoring. You check the final location of your scoring figures if any of them moved during that round of scoring.

However, a message can generate new points and a robber can steal points from the outcome and a new message can be triggered as well, so you may enter an loop here where new rounds of scoring are generated on the fly.

Regarding additional clarifications to WICA, you have this separation of concerns:
* Mini #2 - Messages describes rounds of scoring and actions not triggering one.
   - Section on rounds of scoring: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

* Mini #6 - Robbers indicate that styling points may trigger a message if combined with Mini #2 - Messages 
   - Clarification after the red box:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#Final_scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#Final_scoring)

What would you like to add? Add to the section on rounds of scoring that any scoring moving forward on the scoreboard (including stolen points or payments received) may trigger a message?

Curious for your thoughts :-)

As a side note, revisiting the decoupling of tallied points and scored points is happening in parallel to the analysis of The Land Surveyors PnP expansion, where the tallied points for a feature is decoupled from its fundamental structure:
* German cathedrals played a bit with the concept with the independent road segments on the German cathedral vs. the tile count
* The Land Surveyors adds new mechanisms where external factors to the board alter the the standard rules for tallying points for a feature:
   - The rules for determining majority are warped
   - Tiles are ignored in the scoring
   - Points per tile are increased/decreased conditionally
   - Points per tile are increased inconditionally
   - Bonus points are added to the regular tallied points

Roads and cities require some tinkering. Monasteries are more straight forward.

For the sake of completeness, additional info should be added to the Scoring Test page, such as, actions associated to scoring that may affect majority, such as, hills or deploying meeples from Carcassonne.

I was thinking about adding some actions related to final scoring:
   - King and Robber tile assignment
   - Collecting gold ingots
   - Collecting trade goods

All your feedback is most welcome  ;)

Thank you so much!
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 29, 2020, 04:56:13 PM
I joined X-Men so I had to choose new name so I used the name which I use on czech CarcassonneForum.cz.

So Idea looks nice.

Anyway, how about that Castle? Why not to put it like Teacher?

Hello, X-Men buddy!

I've been thinking about the best way to do it all week long.... If you read section 4) of the previous post, you'll find more issues and reasons to arrange something i this line.

Users of the page will need a Carcassonne compass (or GPS) and a map to find their way in there.  :o
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on April 29, 2020, 10:57:43 PM
A couple of minor edits ...
_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top
(typo) existing text: "Therefore those meeples will not be elegible for big top points."
suggested edit - change "elegible" to "eligible"

_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor
(formatting) existing text:
"corner of each tile is a field: you may place a barn here"

(formatting) existing text:
"corners of both bottom tiles have city segments: you may not place a barn"

suggested edit - in both cases the word "you" is in bold - remove it and apply it to "may" and "may not" instead, OR if consistency requires it, extend the bold formatting to include these words
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on April 30, 2020, 12:27:39 AM
I tried a version of your suggestion. Please check it out.

Perfect. Now is abosultely clear what means Dispatch of message. And it also doesn't enlarge height of page, becaouse message tile is bigger tnat current text.

I'm glad, the approach to your suggestion was satisfactory for you.  ;)

Oooooh! Some questions next... Great!  ;D

Now my suggestion:
I don't understand "Feature scoring -> Castle token image Teacher image" when I click to Castle or Techer link is to file.
- maybe it will be better to describe as dispatch message after fairy bonus, or others where allowed to dispatch message.

Each image in MediaWiki is clickable by default and usually takes you to the page describing the image file. Don't let this mislead you.

The images on the "Feature scoring" banner only emphasize that those are the points scored for the feature itself and that...
- A robber may steal after scoring the core points corresponding to that feature (each bonus is scored and stolen individually as well)
- A castle may score if triggered by this feature.
- A player may score as teacher bonus if this is feature scored first after getting the teacher.

All this effort is only to indicate that bonus points corresponding to figures (or tokens) triggered by the feature, and won't be visible to a castle or to the teacher.

Let me know if this clarifies the whole thing or you have any suggestion about it.

I thing castle have to be more described. When you finish city, there is no informations about multiplying scoring points by neighbour castle.

Castles do not multiply the points by themselves. It all depends on who the castle and who own the feature triggering the castle scoring:
* If the owner are the same, you will see it as a scoring multiplier
* If the owner is different, you will see someone taking advance of your effort to close the feature.

So the scoring of a castle does not include any of these appreciations as they are more related to the strategy during a game than to the scoring itself: you can use castles to boost your scoring or to steal points from others. 

Please let me know your thoughts.

Ok. I thing that it can be described like bonus scoring (prolog) for Watchtowers or bonus scoring (epilog) for Fairy, Ringmaster etc.

Maybe it's not bonus scoring but Triggering scoring like in city
Four sections:
1. Prolog (watchtowers)
2. Feature scoring - all City, Cathar, Mage, Witch, Little Buildings, German Castles, Bathhouse, Darmstadium (it's enought)
3. Triggering scoring - new section
- Castle
 - here can be described like if castle is yours, double points
- Teacher (described in epilog)
- Robber
4. Epilog

Than that symbols on beginning not be necessary and will be understable rules for scoring. And not be forgotten ;-)

New suggection:
Why not to add symbol of robber to points table column for example:
Fairy bonus - 3 points for feature -> Triggering Robber

I used my buildin x-rays and I found it ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on April 30, 2020, 12:32:15 AM
Done for Under the Big Top.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 30, 2020, 01:17:51 AM
_____
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor
(formatting) existing text:
"corner of each tile is a field: you may place a barn here"

(formatting) existing text:
"corners of both bottom tiles have city segments: you may not place a barn"

suggested edit - in both cases the word "you" is in bold - remove it and apply it to "may" and "may not" instead, OR if consistency requires it, extend the bold formatting to include these words

Text changed to bold too although the original rules in English didn't include that.  ;)

Thanks of the suggestions.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 30, 2020, 05:58:45 AM
By the way, nobody has suggested anything about including the abbot scoring when it is placed as an abbot and removed from a special monastery...  >:D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DrMeeple on April 30, 2020, 06:28:08 AM
By the way, nobody has suggested anything about including the abbot scoring when it is placed as an abbot and removed from a special monastery...  >:D

In the WICA’s abbot page?? Isn’t there yet??  ???
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Vital Pluymers on April 30, 2020, 07:18:32 AM


What do you think?



I don't know :-)

I think that the definitions here are quite important. We have two different scoring timings:
* Six different scoring rounds (Messages): Step 1A, 1B, 1C, 2, 3 and 4.
* An enormous number of scoring events (Robbers).

In Scoring Round Step 3 "Scoring a feature" there are defined different scoring events which have consequences for Robbers:
Bonus scoring (prolog), Feature Scoring and Bonus Scoring (epilog).

The rules for Robbers state that you can choose which counting figure to steal from when multiple features are completed and scored in the same scoring round, for instance a simultanously closed road and city.

On the other hand, the rules also state that we should score every feature completely (prolog bonuses, feature scoring, epilog bonuses) step by step before scoring the next feature.

Just to be sure that I interpret this correctly:
Example: A player completes simultanously feature A (majority  :blue-meeple: ), feature B ( :yellow-meeple: ) and feature C (majority  :green-meeple: on Watchtower). My Robber is next to the scoring meeples of all three lucky ones.

The active player decides in which order the features are scored. According to the Robber rules, he now has to inform me in which order he will score all features, so that I can decide which scoring figure I want to rob.

(i) The active player decides to score respectively feature A, feature B, watchtower feature C, and finally feature C. What are my options as a robber?
Can I rob feature A ( :red-meeple:) OR feature B ( :green-meeple:) OR the watchtower of feature C ( :yellow-meeple:)?
Is this correct?

(ii) The active player decides to score respectively feature A, watchtower feature C, feature C and finally feature B.
Can I still choose between the three options above?
I would guess yes, since all scoring meeples would move for the first time in scoring round 3.


I have a few remarks we should discuss:

1)
As multiple meeples can be present on a Watchtower, strictly speaking it should be the Robber+ symbol rather than the Robber symbol. Nevertheless, it's true that the score would be always the same whatever meeple he would rob.
The same can be said for all the Markets of Leipzig.
One could argue that it is irrelevant because the scores don't change, but the same can be stated with regards to the scoring of the Shepherds or the monks on the Darmstadt church. In these cases, a Robber+ symbol is used.

I pondered all this, and my take was the following:
* Watchtowers: I used Robber because, even if there are several multiple meeples on the watchtower tile, each meeple will score the bonus individually. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.
* Markets of Leipzig: I used Robber because, even if there are multiple meeples in Leipzig, each meeple will score the bonus individually. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.
* Shepherd: I used Robber+ because the scoring of various shepherds in the same field is triggered together. So robbers may have a choice to make between several scoring figures even if they steal the same number of points.
* Darmstadt church bonus: I used Robber+ because several meeples may share the majority and get the bonus. So robbers may have a choice to make between several scoring figures even if they steal the same number of points.

I agree with you that the case of the shepherd and the Darmstadt bonus is a case on the edge.

Do you agree?


2)
i) For Ringmasters though, it is a different case. Theoretically, it is possible that a scored feature contains multiple Ringmasters. And these Ringmasters can score differently (in case of a road or a city) depending on the number of circus tiles around them. So, here it definitely should be the Robber+ symbol.
ii) The same is true for the Tollkeepers. A road can have several Tollkeepers with a different toll value. So also here it should be the Robber+ symbol.

My take was the following following the lead of the previous block:
* Ringmasters: I used Robber because, even if there are several multiple ringmasters on the same feature, each meeple will score the bonus individually and the scoring may differ, as you say, depending on their location. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.
* Tollkeepers: I used Robber because, even if there are several multiple tollhouses at the ends of a road, each tollhouse will score the bonus individually. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.

In general, as you can see, bonus points scored individually are tagged with Robber, and those involving several figures in the same scoring are tagged with Robber+.


I can understand your point, but still... Who decides in which order the bonuses are scored? Also the active player?
I don't think this is officially defined in the rules, is it?

For the first four scoring events, it seems less important as the end result will be the same anyhow.
But for the Ringmasters and Tollkeepers points, it is important.
(i) Is the active player deciding about the order of scoring the Ringmasters or Tollkeepers?
(ii) Or can the Robber just decide which of the Ringmasters / Tollkeepers he will rob as they are all scored in the same scoring event? This would be in line with his right to choose for features scored simultanously.
I would go for option (ii) and then I still believe that there should be a Robber+ symbol :-)

Analogously, the same would be valid for Watchtowers and Markets of Leipzig.




Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Vital Pluymers on April 30, 2020, 08:04:59 AM

3) Watchtowers with meeple symbol vs Big Top. Both mechanics give points for the number of meeples on the tile itself and the eight spaces around. What is the logic of including meeples on castles for the scoring of the Big Top, but excluding them for the scoring of the Watchtower? I think for the sake of consistency, it should be scored the same.

Ha ha ha! You finally noticed. When updating some weeks ago the rules about the interaction of castles and the big top, I realized this would be the same case for watchtowers. But of course, the Watchtowers rules do not cover anything but the base game. A shame!

I agree with you, but was keeping that debate for a little later. Now it is on the table.

I sent some question to Cundco about Exp. 10 on December 11th, before I realized about this, and I'm still waiting for an answer. I have prepared a longer list since and even I was thinking of opening a thread with open question so HiG ends up hating us deeply. We can start just collecting all the footnotes in WICA with padlock icons to start with. >:D


That seems like a great idea :-)
But it will be useless, I'm afraid. I am sure that HiG hates us already for years...
 :@

4) The last step of the feature scoring for roads is: Markets of Leipzig: Player sending their only meeple on the road to Leipzig -> (x0) points
If the multiplication times 0 is part of the feature scoring, it would imply that robbers, the teacher or the neighbouring castle(s) would also receive 0 points in case the player having the majority would decide to send his only meeple to Leipzig. I don't think this would be correct.

I agree that we have a problem with castles.

Let's see each case separately when you complete a road and decide to send your only meeple on it to Leipzig:
* Robbers: Since you score 0 points, a robber next to any of your scoring figures would steal nothing and would stay where it is.
* Teacher: Since you score 0 points, the teacher won't get any points either. As per the rules: "When the next feature is scored, the player with the teacher scores the same number of points."
* Castles: You score 0 points but a castle nearby could score the full points for this road, since castles score the points the feature is worth, not the points scored by the players with the majority, if any (the feature could be unoccupied and even so the castle would score for it).

I assume, I will have to figure out how to express this in a simple way since we have to dissociate:
* The points tallied by the feature, that is, the points the feature is worth
* The points scored by the player(s) with the majority (if any), that is, the points scored on the scoreboard

A mayor in a city with no coats of arms or in a castle shows this. The mayor gets 0 points but a nearby castle could score the full points for the feature.

So this means that on the table we will have to indicate:
* Points tallied for the feature --> These would go to a castle nearby too
* Points scored for the feature (if there are any special cases: mayors, meeple sent to Leipzig) --> These would go to the scoreboard, a robber, the teacher

Any comments?


I agree with everything you wrote above. There is no issue with the Robbers and the Teacher.
But for Castles, we need that split-up you proposed.

5) In the C2 rules for Robbers is written: If playing with other expansions, please take the following notes into consideration: The Messengers: If either your messenger or your scoring meeple lands on a dark space as a result of your robber stealing points from another player, draw a message tile.
i) Is this a seperate scoring event? In that case, the Messengers should be added after the Robber scoring topic.
ii) Or is it just part of the scoring round in which the robber is stealing the points? Then nothing should be changed in the scoring file as Messengers are added after every scoring round.
I think whatever is the outcome, this remark with regards to Robbers should be added to the playing rules of the Messenger expansion.

The points stolen by a robber are circumscribed to the round of scoring the scoring is happening. So we are talking about option ii). That's why the message is the last action every round of scoring. You check the final location of your scoring figures if any of them moved during that round of scoring.

However, a message can generate new points and a robber can steal points from the outcome and a new message can be triggered as well, so you may enter an loop here where new rounds of scoring are generated on the fly.

Regarding additional clarifications to WICA, you have this separation of concerns:
* Mini #2 - Messages describes rounds of scoring and actions not triggering one.
   - Section on rounds of scoring: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

* Mini #6 - Robbers indicate that styling points may trigger a message if combined with Mini #2 - Messages 
   - Clarification after the red box:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#Final_scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#Final_scoring)

What would you like to add? Add to the section on rounds of scoring that any scoring moving forward on the scoreboard (including stolen points or payments received) may trigger a message?


Indeed, I would add this to the section on rounds of scoring in the rules for the Messages and in the WICA.

Anyhow, if the Robbers are always "awarded" for their work taking into account all the scoring activities in one scoring round, ánd messages are delivered just after the end of a scoring round, then what is the added value of the sentence "[/b]: If either your messenger or your scoring meeple lands on a dark space as a result of your robber stealing points from another player, draw a message tile.[/b] ?

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 03, 2020, 02:13:49 AM


What do you think?



I don't know :-)

Fair enough  ;)

I think that the definitions here are quite important. We have two different scoring timings:
* Six different scoring rounds (Messages): Step 1A, 1B, 1C, 2, 3 and 4.
* An enormous number of scoring events (Robbers).

In Scoring Round Step 3 "Scoring a feature" there are defined different scoring events which have consequences for Robbers:
Bonus scoring (prolog), Feature Scoring and Bonus Scoring (epilog).

Yes, any feature scored in Step 3B may trigger several scoring events we can group in three blocks:
* Bonus prolog: with several scoring events scored affecting one or more figures usually individually (each tagged with Robber). The exception: the Gingerbread Man for cities (tagged with Robber+), that may trigger a scoring event for multiple players occupying the same city.
* Feature scoring: one single scoring event that may affect one or more players (tagged with Robber+). Features normally occupied by one meeple are by default tagged with Robber, but when using expansions that allow multiple meeples sharing them they are also tagged with Robber+.
* Bonus epilog: with several scoring events scored affecting one or more figures usually individually (each tagged with Robber). The exception: the Darmstadt church bonus (tagged with Robber+), that may trigger a scoring event for multiple players sharing the majority in the vicinity of a Darmstadt church.

The rules for Robbers state that you can choose which counting figure to steal from when multiple features are completed and scored in the same scoring round, for instance a simultanously closed road and city.

On the other hand, the rules also state that we should score every feature completely (prolog bonuses, feature scoring, epilog bonuses) step by step before scoring the next feature.

We have several cases when placing a tile that completes several features:
A) With base game or expansions that do not care about the scoring order:
   - Not specified in the rules: Assuming each player decides the order even when scoring features for various players.
B) Case A) plus robbers (scoring order matters when stealing points):
   - Specified in the clarifications: Each player decides the order even when scoring features for various players.
C) Cases A) or B) plus watchtowers (scoring order matters for watchtower scoring for neighboring meeples):
   - Not specified in the rules: Assuming each player decides the order even when scoring features for various players so far but the active player could have a say the same as with bathhouses.
D) Cases A) or B) or C) plus bathhouses (scoring order matters when sending meeples to bathhouses):
   - Specified in the rules: The active player decides the order even when scoring features for various players.

Special cases (for the sake of completes):
   - Teacher: the player with the teacher picks one feature from the completed ones. No scoring order is required.
   - Castles: castles score after the feature triggering their scoring. No scoring order is required for the other completed features.
      - Multiple completed features (including other castles) may trigger a castle scoring (all of them overlapping the castle fief), but the castle may only score for one.
      - If two or more castles overlap each other's castle fief, they all will be scored together. 

So trying to provide the simplest rules possible for the scoring order, we could conclude:
* Each player decides the order even when scoring features for various players.
* The active player decides the order even when scoring features for various players if some arbitration is required.

Just to be sure that I interpret this correctly:
Example: A player completes simultanously feature A (majority  :blue-meeple: ), feature B ( :yellow-meeple: ) and feature C (majority  :green-meeple: on Watchtower). My Robber is next to the scoring meeples of all three lucky ones.

The active player decides in which order the features are scored. According to the Robber rules, he now has to inform me in which order he will score all features, so that I can decide which scoring figure I want to rob.

As I mentioned earlier, it is the best option we have when the scoring can be affected by the order features are scored:
* Single-meeple scorings with bathhouses (official ruling)
* The watchtower scoring for neighboring meeples (ruling assumed from bathhouses)

(i) The active player decides to score respectively feature A, feature B, watchtower feature C, and finally feature C. What are my options as a robber?
Can I rob feature A ( :blue-meeple:) OR feature B ( :yellow-meeple:) OR the watchtower of feature C ( :green-meeple:)?
Is this correct?

Yes (if needed), these are the options we have. Feature C ( :green-meeple:) will have to be scored after the watchtower of feature C ( :green-meeple:). At that point, the robber already stole some points and was removed from the scoreboard.

In this case, we have the following step-by-step scenario:
* All features are completed by the same tile
* All the scoring meeples are on the same space with the robber
* All the points for each feature are tallied in the order defined by the active payer if some arbitration is required:
   - Points for feature A
   - Points for feature B
   - Points for watchtower of feature C
   - Points for feature C
* The scoring is organized in steps including one scoring event per player each while completing with the order of scoring required by the watchtower bonus. So player :green-meeple: is the only needing a second step:
   - Step 1: feature A, feature B, and watchtower of feature C
   - Step 2: feature C
* The owner of the robber is informed about Steps 1 and 2, if necessary
* Step 1 takes place: The points for feature A, feature B, and watchtower of feature C are scored
* The robber steals points from one scoring event taken place in Step 1 and it is removed from the scoreboard
* Step 2 takes place: The points for feature C are scored
* The scoring process is complete

So you plan the scoring beforehand. Then you perform the scoring in steps so players decide what scoring figure (if more than one) they move and robbers can do their work. Multiple steps will be necessary when:
* A player scores more than one feature
* A player has a feature with one or more bonus

Note that features scored by several players sharing the majority will have to be scored for all the players involved at the same time.

(ii) The active player decides to score respectively feature A, watchtower feature C, feature C and finally feature B.
Can I still choose between the three options above?
I would guess yes, since all scoring meeples would move for the first time in scoring round 3.

You would tally the points following that sequence (feature A, watchtower feature C, feature C and finally feature B) but you will have to score in steps so all the robbers have the option to steal points from the first scoring event from any of the three features:
   - Step 1: feature A, feature B, and watchtower of feature C --> The robber chooses one
   - Step 2: feature C

As you can see, we have several constraints that need to be accommodated:
* Multiple features: the active player may decide the order of scoring if there are conflicting side effects in the scoring that require arbitration. Otherwise each player may decide the order of scoring of their features. 
* Features with bonus: the scoring of the feature is arranged as a sequence of several scoring events that have to follow a given order during scoring. Feature C has a watchtower bonus that has to be scored before the feature itself.
* Robbers on the same space as multiple scoring figures from players scoring in the same turn: These robbers have to be able to steal points from the first scoring event they all score.

Therefore when scoring multiple features with a tile placement, you tally the points following the scoring order defined but you flatten the scoring process on the scoreboard to allow robbers to steal points properly. 


I have a few remarks we should discuss:

1)
As multiple meeples can be present on a Watchtower, strictly speaking it should be the Robber+ symbol rather than the Robber symbol. Nevertheless, it's true that the score would be always the same whatever meeple he would rob.
The same can be said for all the Markets of Leipzig.
One could argue that it is irrelevant because the scores don't change, but the same can be stated with regards to the scoring of the Shepherds or the monks on the Darmstadt church. In these cases, a Robber+ symbol is used.

I pondered all this, and my take was the following:
* Watchtowers: I used Robber because, even if there are several multiple meeples on the watchtower tile, each meeple will score the bonus individually. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.
* Markets of Leipzig: I used Robber because, even if there are multiple meeples in Leipzig, each meeple will score the bonus individually. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.
* Shepherd: I used Robber+ because the scoring of various shepherds in the same field is triggered together. So robbers may have a choice to make between several scoring figures even if they steal the same number of points.
* Darmstadt church bonus: I used Robber+ because several meeples may share the majority and get the bonus. So robbers may have a choice to make between several scoring figures even if they steal the same number of points.

I agree with you that the case of the shepherd and the Darmstadt bonus is a case on the edge.

Do you agree?


2)
i) For Ringmasters though, it is a different case. Theoretically, it is possible that a scored feature contains multiple Ringmasters. And these Ringmasters can score differently (in case of a road or a city) depending on the number of circus tiles around them. So, here it definitely should be the Robber+ symbol.
ii) The same is true for the Tollkeepers. A road can have several Tollkeepers with a different toll value. So also here it should be the Robber+ symbol.

My take was the following following the lead of the previous block:
* Ringmasters: I used Robber because, even if there are several multiple ringmasters on the same feature, each meeple will score the bonus individually and the scoring may differ, as you say, depending on their location. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.
* Tollkeepers: I used Robber because, even if there are several multiple tollhouses at the ends of a road, each tollhouse will score the bonus individually. So robbers will steal from one scoring figure at a time.

In general, as you can see, bonus points scored individually are tagged with Robber, and those involving several figures in the same scoring are tagged with Robber+.


I can understand your point, but still... Who decides in which order the bonuses are scored? Also the active player?
I don't think this is officially defined in the rules, is it?

The rules do not state anything about the order of scoring when several bonus points have to be scored:
* Watchtowers and Tollkeepers and the WE Gingerbread Man do not know each other exists.
* Markets of Leipzig, the fairy, ringmasters... do not know each other exist in most cases.

The active player may dictate a feature scoring order, but each player should be allowed to score the prolog bonuses and the epilog bonuses in the order they choose to maximize their chances to get a Message and to hinder other players' robbers...

For the first four scoring events, it seems less important as the end result will be the same anyhow.
But for the Ringmasters and Tollkeepers points, it is important.
(i) Is the active player deciding about the order of scoring the Ringmasters or Tollkeepers?
(ii) Or can the Robber just decide which of the Ringmasters / Tollkeepers he will rob as they are all scored in the same scoring event? This would be in line with his right to choose for features scored simultanously.
I would go for option (ii) and then I still believe that there should be a Robber+ symbol :-)

Analogously, the same would be valid for Watchtowers and Markets of Leipzig.

...unless there is a need for an arbitration (by the active player) because several players control the feature and they have conflicting interests with the scoring order.

As per the (lack of) rules each player could decide individually the scoring order of their prolog bonuses and epilog bonuses even if sharing the control of the feature.

Example: A road controlled by :blue-meeple: and :red-meeple: with the following:
* Watchtower bonus for :blue-meeple: and  :yellow-meeple:
* Tollhouse bonus for :yellow-meeple:
* Ringmaster bonus for  :blue-meeple: and :yellow-meeple:
* Fairy bonus for :blue-meeple:
* Wainwrights quarter bonus for :blue-meeple: and :red-meeple:

You could score it as follows:
* Step 1: Watchtower bonus for :blue-meeple: + Tollhouse for  :yellow-meeple:
* Step 2: Feature scoring for :blue-meeple: and :red-meeple: (cannot be divided) + Watchtower bonus for  :yellow-meeple:
* Step 3 Fairy bonus for :blue-meeple: + Wainwrights quarter bonus for  :red-meeple: + Ringmaster bonus for  :yellow-meeple:
* Step 4: Ringmaster bonus for  :blue-meeple:
* Step 5: Wainwrights quarter bonus for :blue-meeple:

Other sequences are valid as long as:
* The scoring events of the bonus prolog take place before their respective features
* The scoring events of the bonus epilog take place after their respective features
* The feature scoring is treated as scoring event involving several meeples (given the right conditions on the scoreboard, a robber should be able to steal points from any of them as they belong to the same scoring event)

All in all, everything comes down to the following principles:
* Players may decide the order of evaluation of their features and their bonuses (even if affecting others)
* The active player will make the decision when an arbitration is needed because:
  - Several players share majority on a feature and they don't agree on the order of evaluation (due to multiple outcomes)
  - Several players performed single-meeple scorings and there are free bathhouses

EDIT: Added example and additional clarifications
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 03, 2020, 02:49:33 AM

3) Watchtowers with meeple symbol vs Big Top. Both mechanics give points for the number of meeples on the tile itself and the eight spaces around. What is the logic of including meeples on castles for the scoring of the Big Top, but excluding them for the scoring of the Watchtower? I think for the sake of consistency, it should be scored the same.

Ha ha ha! You finally noticed. When updating some weeks ago the rules about the interaction of castles and the big top, I realized this would be the same case for watchtowers. But of course, the Watchtowers rules do not cover anything but the base game. A shame!

I agree with you, but was keeping that debate for a little later. Now it is on the table.

I sent some question to Cundco about Exp. 10 on December 11th, before I realized about this, and I'm still waiting for an answer. I have prepared a longer list since and even I was thinking of opening a thread with open question so HiG ends up hating us deeply. We can start just collecting all the footnotes in WICA with padlock icons to start with. >:D


That seems like a great idea :-)
But it will be useless, I'm afraid. I am sure that HiG hates us already for years...
 :@

Man of little faith!  >:D

4) The last step of the feature scoring for roads is: Markets of Leipzig: Player sending their only meeple on the road to Leipzig -> (x0) points
If the multiplication times 0 is part of the feature scoring, it would imply that robbers, the teacher or the neighbouring castle(s) would also receive 0 points in case the player having the majority would decide to send his only meeple to Leipzig. I don't think this would be correct.

I agree that we have a problem with castles.

Let's see each case separately when you complete a road and decide to send your only meeple on it to Leipzig:
* Robbers: Since you score 0 points, a robber next to any of your scoring figures would steal nothing and would stay where it is.
* Teacher: Since you score 0 points, the teacher won't get any points either. As per the rules: "When the next feature is scored, the player with the teacher scores the same number of points."
* Castles: You score 0 points but a castle nearby could score the full points for this road, since castles score the points the feature is worth, not the points scored by the players with the majority, if any (the feature could be unoccupied and even so the castle would score for it).

I assume, I will have to figure out how to express this in a simple way since we have to dissociate:
* The points tallied by the feature, that is, the points the feature is worth
* The points scored by the player(s) with the majority (if any), that is, the points scored on the scoreboard

A mayor in a city with no coats of arms or in a castle shows this. The mayor gets 0 points but a nearby castle could score the full points for the feature.

So this means that on the table we will have to indicate:
* Points tallied for the feature --> These would go to a castle nearby too
* Points scored for the feature (if there are any special cases: mayors, meeple sent to Leipzig) --> These would go to the scoreboard, a robber, the teacher

Any comments?


I agree with everything you wrote above. There is no issue with the Robbers and the Teacher.
But for Castles, we need that split-up you proposed.

I will work on it.

5) In the C2 rules for Robbers is written: If playing with other expansions, please take the following notes into consideration: The Messengers: If either your messenger or your scoring meeple lands on a dark space as a result of your robber stealing points from another player, draw a message tile.
i) Is this a seperate scoring event? In that case, the Messengers should be added after the Robber scoring topic.
ii) Or is it just part of the scoring round in which the robber is stealing the points? Then nothing should be changed in the scoring file as Messengers are added after every scoring round.
I think whatever is the outcome, this remark with regards to Robbers should be added to the playing rules of the Messenger expansion.

The points stolen by a robber are circumscribed to the round of scoring the scoring is happening. So we are talking about option ii). That's why the message is the last action every round of scoring. You check the final location of your scoring figures if any of them moved during that round of scoring.

However, a message can generate new points and a robber can steal points from the outcome and a new message can be triggered as well, so you may enter an loop here where new rounds of scoring are generated on the fly.

Regarding additional clarifications to WICA, you have this separation of concerns:
* Mini #2 - Messages describes rounds of scoring and actions not triggering one.
   - Section on rounds of scoring: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)

* Mini #6 - Robbers indicate that styling points may trigger a message if combined with Mini #2 - Messages 
   - Clarification after the red box:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#Final_scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#Final_scoring)

What would you like to add? Add to the section on rounds of scoring that any scoring moving forward on the scoreboard (including stolen points or payments received) may trigger a message?


Indeed, I would add this to the section on rounds of scoring in the rules for the Messages and in the WICA.

Anyhow, if the Robbers are always "awarded" for their work taking into account all the scoring activities in one scoring round, ánd messages are delivered just after the end of a scoring round, then what is the added value of the sentence "[/b]: If either your messenger or your scoring meeple lands on a dark space as a result of your robber stealing points from another player, draw a message tile.[/b] ?

Done! I added the following paragraph:

"In order to trigger a Message, the landing on a dark space will take into consideration any scoring moving forward a scoring figure on the scoreboard (including stolen points or payments received). No backwards movements of scoring figures landing on a dark space (due to payments) will be considered."

You can see the result here for C2 (I added a footnote in C1):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Rounds_of_Scoring)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 03, 2020, 07:11:58 AM
Following the discussion I posted two messages earlier (Reply #59 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4489.msg68122#msg68122[/url)), I prepared the following example:

(https://i.imgur.com/3rZhDwc.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/7zDcipa.jpg)

No matter the "scoring order" defined for the monastery, the city and the road (the latter with different outcomes for the Watchtower scoring per neighboring meeples), the points for all the features closed with this single tile placement will have to be noted on the scoreboard at once, so robbers can properly pick which scoring meeple to steal from.

As you can see, the tallying order will be as follows:
1. Tally the  :pink-meeple: monastery, the  :red-meeple: city (including the watchtower for :red-meeple:) and the :orange-meeple: road (including the watchtower for :orange-meeple: and the tollhouse for :black1-meeple:) in the selected order.
2. The :blue-meeple: castle will be tallied next as its scoring is triggered by the :orange-meeple: road and the :pink-meeple: monastery.
3. The :yellow-meeple: castle will be tallied last as its scoring is triggered by the :blue-meeple: castle, the :red-meeple: city and the :pink-meeple: monastery.

The scoring should take place as follows:
* Step 1A - scoring: note tallied points for :pink-meeple: monastery, :red-meeple: watchtower, :orange-meeple: watchtower, :black1-meeple: tollhouse, :blue-meeple: castle and :yellow-meeple: castle.
* Step 1B - robbers: :blue-meeple: robber and :yellow-meeple: robber steal points from chosen scorings and than they are removed from the scoreboard.
* Step 2: note tallied points for :red-meeple: city and  :orange-meeple: road.

The same logic has to be applied no matter, the scoreboard initial configuration. Here you are another example.

(https://i.imgur.com/EH9c2Se.jpg)

EDIT: Just a reminder - :blue-meeple: robber cannot steal from :blue-meeple: meeple and :yellow-meeple: robber cannot steal from :yellow-meeple: meeple.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 03, 2020, 02:05:42 PM
Added some slight updates to the Scoring During the Game Test:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Carcassonne_Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Carcassonne_Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence)

Step 2B-1:

* Abbots:
  - Added abbot scoring when removing an abbot placed as an abbot on a special monastery

Step 3B:

* Roads:
   - Split German cathedrals separating points per road segment from bonus to roads (preliminary change to simplify the inclusion of The Land Surveyors)
   - Updated Markets of Leipzig so separate tallied points from scored points

EDIT: Updated link to final page.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 03, 2020, 11:09:47 PM
Added some slight updates to the Scoring During the Game Test:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test)

Step 2B-1:

* Abbots:
  - Added abbot scoring when removing an abbot placed as an abbot on a special monastery


Hmm. Interesting how to get a lot of points. I didn't know that is possible. I thought that it's possible only with standard or big meeple.

I knew that this change will be useful!

+1000 merit to me ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 04, 2020, 12:44:57 AM
This is the result of a number of circumstances not covered in the rules (of course) but that may happen:
* You can place any meeple as an abbot on a special monastery
* An abbot meeple is a meeple  :o
* An abbot meeple can be removed and scored
Ergo, you should be able to remove an abbot meeple placed as an abbot on a special monastery.

Lovely, isn't it?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DrMeeple on May 04, 2020, 01:13:30 AM
This is the result of a number of circumstances not covered in the rules (of course) but that may happen:
* You can place any meeple as an abbot on a special monastery
* An abbot meeple is a meeple  :o
* An abbot meeple can be removed and scored
Ergo, you should be able to remove an abbot meeple placed as an abbot on a special monastery.

Lovely, isn't it?
It is very succulent but also controversial. After meditating it, I think that what you are commenting on is the best option, but I understand that it may have another interpretation when it comes to punctuating the abbot according to what circumstances. emoji code48]


Sent from my iPad Pro using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 04, 2020, 01:59:37 AM
This is the result of a number of circumstances not covered in the rules (of course) but that may happen:
* You can place any meeple as an abbot on a special monastery
* An abbot meeple is a meeple  :o
* An abbot meeple can be removed and scored
Ergo, you should be able to remove an abbot meeple placed as an abbot on a special monastery.

Lovely, isn't it?

Yeah, this is beauty of HiG - "however this has not yet been tested and you’d have to try it at your own risk, without any official rules".

But you're right. Abbot can be places only to Monastery and to Garden. "Special" monastery is regular monastery when you place meeple by standard way. When you lie it on side, then is "abbot". Other logical conlusions you wrote before in you comment. ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 05, 2020, 04:42:09 PM
Hi all!

First version of the new Scoring Duting the Game page integrating The Land Surveyors.

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_per_Feature_-_Test

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Carcassonne_Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Carcassonne_Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence)

Your feedback most welcome.

Cheers!

Edit: Renamed test page to final name
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 06, 2020, 05:36:54 AM
Nice.
But is it necessary to devide scoring tiles to two sections for The Land Surveyors?:

1. Land surveyor action for road/city tiles
2. Land surveyor action for roads/cities
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 06, 2020, 05:47:27 AM
I wish we could have only one section like for Monasteries, but some scoring tiles apply to individual tiles and some other to the feature as a whole. So you need to split them into groups depending on the moment they should be applied when combined with other expansions.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 07, 2020, 10:44:27 AM
I moved the posts about the interpretation and the combination of some Land Surveyor tiles to this other thread:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4641.0 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4641.0)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 07, 2020, 01:56:30 PM
I wish we could have only one section like for Monasteries, but some scoring tiles apply to individual tiles and some other to the feature as a whole. So you need to split them into groups depending on the moment they should be applied when combined with other expansions.
Ok. By the nature of that scoring cards and in which step is used for scoring, your division is better for scoring.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on June 04, 2020, 03:18:03 AM
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Farmers

(typo) existing text - "The yellow farmer has not impact since he occupies another field."
suggested edit - change "not" to "no"
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Sinscerly on June 04, 2020, 12:12:55 PM
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Farmers

(typo) existing text - "The yellow farmer has not impact since he occupies another field."
suggested edit - change "not" to "no"
I see that Carcassonne93 has already tackled this typo. Thanks for pointing  O0
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on June 04, 2020, 12:24:42 PM
 :(y)

Thanks to ZMG we have plenty of work ahead  >:D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on June 07, 2020, 04:24:24 AM
I see that Carcassonne93 has already tackled this typo. Thanks for pointing  O0
So Carcassonne93 now has edit access to WikiCarpedia?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on June 07, 2020, 05:52:37 AM
Yep!

He asked to join the WICA team! He is doing a great job translating contents to Romanian and proofreading C2 pages as he translates them...

You can see a huge number of additional questions in the Comments section  of the pages he is reviewing too.

If you want to join too, just let me know  ;D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on July 14, 2020, 04:51:05 PM
Following the discussion I posted two messages earlier (Reply #59 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4489.msg68122#msg68122[/url)), I prepared the following example:

(https://i.imgur.com/3rZhDwc.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/7zDcipa.jpg)

No matter the "scoring order" defined for the monastery, the city and the road (the latter with different outcomes for the Watchtower scoring per neighboring meeples), the points for all the features closed with this single tile placement will have to be noted on the scoreboard at once, so robbers can properly pick which scoring meeple to steal from.

As you can see, the tallying order will be as follows:
1. Tally the  :pink-meeple: monastery, the  :red-meeple: city (including the watchtower for :red-meeple:) and the :orange-meeple: road (including the watchtower for :orange-meeple: and the tollhouse for :black1-meeple:) in the selected order.
2. The :blue-meeple: castle will be tallied next as its scoring is triggered by the :orange-meeple: road and the :pink-meeple: monastery.
3. The :yellow-meeple: castle will be tallied last as its scoring is triggered by the :blue-meeple: castle, the :red-meeple: city and the :pink-meeple: monastery.

The scoring should take place as follows:
* Step 1A - scoring: note tallied points for :pink-meeple: monastery, :red-meeple: watchtower, :orange-meeple: watchtower, :black1-meeple: tollhouse, :blue-meeple: castle and :yellow-meeple: castle.
* Step 1B - robbers: :blue-meeple: robber and :yellow-meeple: robber steal points from chosen scorings and than they are removed from the scoreboard.
* Step 2: note tallied points for :red-meeple: city and  :orange-meeple: road.

The same logic has to be applied no matter, the scoreboard initial configuration. Here you are another example.

(https://i.imgur.com/EH9c2Se.jpg)

EDIT: Just a reminder - :blue-meeple: robber cannot steal from :blue-meeple: meeple and :yellow-meeple: robber cannot steal from :yellow-meeple: meeple.

These castles can rob from any of these 3 features (the city, the monastery and the road)?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on July 14, 2020, 11:43:27 PM
The :blue-meeple: castle can recieve points from one of these features: the :orange-meeple: road or the :pink-meeple: monastery.
The :yellow-meeple: castle can receive points from one of these features: the :blue-meeple: castle, the :red-meeple: city or the :pink-meeple: monastery.

The :orange-meeple: road is worth 4 points (4 tiles x 1 point / tile).
The :pink-meeple: monastery is worth 9 points.
The :red-meeple: city (3 tiles x 2 points / tile + 4 points for the bathhouse).

If deciding to score for the most points:
* The :blue-meeple: castle will score for the :pink-meeple: monastery, that is 9 points (instead of 4 points for the :orange-meeple: road).
* The :yellow-meeple: castle will score for the :red-meeple: city, that is 10 points (instead of 4 points for the :orange-meeple: road or 9 points for the :pink-meeple: monastery).

But this decision may change depending on they want to deal with the robbers.  ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on July 15, 2020, 06:03:23 AM
That means that in the same turn these 3 castles can score 3 different features?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on July 15, 2020, 07:36:12 AM
Yes, but maybe more ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on July 15, 2020, 03:28:59 PM
That means that in the same turn these 3 castles can score 3 different features?

(http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4489.0;attach=12889;image)

The :red-meeple: castle and the :yellow-meeple: castle overlap each other's fief so they will always score the same points for a feature triggering the scoring of any of them.

The :blue-meeple: castle is overlapping the :red-meeple: castle fief but not vice versa. This means that any feature triggering the scoring of the :blue-meeple: castle will trigger the scoring of the :red-meeple: castle and therefore the :yellow-meeple: castle as well. In this case, all the three castles (:blue-meeple:, :red-meeple:, :yellow-meeple:) will score the same points.

However, a feature may trigger the scoring of the :red-meeple: castle and the :yellow-meeple: castle without triggering the scoring of the :blue-meeple: castle, since neither the :red-meeple: castle nor the :yellow-meeple: castle overlap the :blue-meeple: castle fief. In this case, the :blue-meeple: castle may score different points than the :red-meeple: castle and the :yellow-meeple: castles.
Title: WikiCarpedia to do list
Post by: NGC 54 on July 20, 2020, 04:33:06 AM
WikiCarpedia to do list:
1. Create "South Seas", "South Seas Base Game", "South Seas Friday", "Amazonas", "Amazonas Base Game", "Amazonas Amazon River Bonus Tiles", "Star Wars", "Star Wars Base Game", "The Castle", "The Castle Base Game", "The Castle Falcon", "The City", "The City Base Game", "The Discovery", "The Discovery Base Game", "My First Carcassonne", "Cardcassonne", "The Dice Game", "Over Hill and Dale", "Over Hill and Dale Base Game".
2. Complete the Glossary page.
3. The "Spin-offs" section from the Main Page can be rearranged:
* [[Winter Edition|Winter Edition]]: [[Winter Edition Base Game|Base Game]], [[Winter Edition The Gingerbread Man|The Gingerbread Man]], [[Winter Edition Die Kornkreise|Crop Circles]]
* [[South Seas|South Seas]]: [[South Seas Base Game|Base Game]], [[South Seas Friday|Friday]]
* [[Gold Rush|Gold Rush]]: [[Gold Rush Base Game|Base Game]], [[Gold Rush The Sheriff|The Sheriff]]
* [[Amazonas|Amazonas]]: [[Amazonas Base Game|Base Game]], [[Amazonas Amazon River Bonus Tiles|Amazon River Bonus Tiles]]
* [[Hunters and Gatherers|Hunters and Gatherers]]: [[Hunters and Gatherers Base Game|Base Game]], [[Hunters and Gatherers Scout|Scout]]
* [[Star Wars|Star Wars]]: [[Star Wars Base Game|Base Game]], [[Star Wars Expansion 1|Expansion 1]]
* [[The Castle|The Castle]]: [[The Castle Base Game|Base Game]], [[The Castle Falcon|Falcon]]
* [[The Ark of the Covenant|The Ark of the Covenant]]: [[The Ark of the Covenant Base Game|Base Game]]
* [[The City|The City]]: [[The City Base Game|Base Game]]
* [[The Discovery|The Discovery]]: [[The Discovery Base Game|Base Game]]
* [[New World|New World]]: [[New World Base Game|Base Game]]
* [[My First Carcassonne|My First Carcassonne]]
* [[Cardcassonne|Cardcassonne]]
* [[The Dice Game|The Dice Game]]
* [[Over Hill and Dale|Over Hill and Dale]]: [[Over Hill and Dale Base Game|Base Game]]
* [[Safari|Safari]]: [[Safari Base Game|Base Game]], [[Spiel Doch Safari Promo|Spiel Doch! Promo 02/2018]]
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia to do list
Post by: Meepledrone on July 20, 2020, 05:14:44 AM
Two more pages needed:

4. Complete the dynamic Tile Reference
5. [[Accessories and Gadgets|Accessories and Gadgets]]
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia to do list
Post by: NGC 54 on July 22, 2020, 02:31:03 PM
4. Add about the blue bag from the Traders and Builders.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia to do list
Post by: Meepledrone on July 23, 2020, 04:19:43 AM
[6.] 4. Add about the blue bag from the Traders and Builders.

This was already requested in the comments section on WICA. It was in my to-do list along with some aesthetic changes to the page.  ;)

7. Add additional info found on this FAQ about the River I and II available on ModernJive:
* http://modernjive.com/carcassonne/carcassonnetheriver.htm (http://modernjive.com/carcassonne/carcassonnetheriver.htm)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia to do list
Post by: Meepledrone on July 26, 2020, 04:49:05 AM
4. Add about the blue bag from the Traders and Builders.

Done! ... along with some improvements in layout and the addition of information in section The Double Turn.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Le Merlin Fou on July 27, 2020, 03:37:19 AM
Could I suggest to continue the French traduction ?

I can read and understand the English part but some of my friends can't ^^

Thank you

(If you want I can take a part of the job but I don't know about programming )


Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on July 27, 2020, 04:31:11 AM
Hi Le Merlin Fou,

If you want to join the team, you are more than welcome.

Black Bear is working on the French translation, so you can team up and organize the work as you please.

No coding involved. The pages use a simple notation all of us had to understand to edit and translate the contents. I can get send you some basic readings so you can see what I am talking about.

Cheers!
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Le Merlin Fou on July 27, 2020, 05:41:30 AM
Yes if you could send me this ;)

Ok I'll see with him.

I don't promess I'll work every day but time to time ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on August 15, 2020, 04:45:54 AM
Hi all,

I'm testing a new concept for some C2 pages on WICA with the idea so simplify the reading of pages, grouping related information together in an organized way and providing better traceability of the clarifications.

This update is based on the following principles:
* Clarifications to the main text should address issues related to the rules and should avoid mixing interactions with any expansions, unless necessary. So, these clarification related to interactions would be included in a separate section and organized by expansion.
* Clarifications to the main text are grouped in note boxes close to the text sections they refer to. This way we try to avoid scrolling all the way down to the end of the page, since you can find the clarification nearby and make the reading experience more fluid.
* Discrepancies between rules versions (for example, standalone version vs. Big Box 6 version) are grouped in an additional section.
* Discrepancies related to translations by publishers are kept as end footnotes, since they are language-dependent and do not affect all languages
* All clarifications are tagged with a unique identifier for WICA and keeps track to the source CAR footnote, if any. These identifiers are shown as a link in brackets that can be copied and pasted anywhere so link back to the clarification. Currently, the addition of a new clarification may affect the numbering of the exiting clarifications on a page and therefore the links pointing back to them.

Here you are a couple of WIP examples:
* The C2 Base game (new approach): http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Base_Game_-_Test_Inline (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Base_Game_-_Test_Inline)
* The C2 Messages (new approach):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/New_Messages_-_Test (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/New_Messages_-_Test)

The original pages are next so you can compare:
* The C2 base game (current version):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Base_game (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Base_game)
* The C2 Messages (current version):
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages)

As you can see, the base game now includes a number of clarification addressing concepts modified or expanded by later expansions so you may take them into account as required. The point here is that the original wording is limited to the scenarios found in the base game, so concepts like "majority in a feature" are explained in a simplified way that may apply to the base game but falls short when adding the large meeple or a mayor. You get the idea.

All your comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 15, 2020, 05:01:22 AM
Well Carcassonne is very simple game with simple rules and simple mechanism.
On testing page for Basic Game, I doesn't look like simple game ;-)
Approach on Messages is fine, this expansion is usualy bought by experienced players, so new page looks me more informative.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on August 15, 2020, 06:12:11 AM
Would you then prefer to move sections 4.9 Interactions with expansions to a separate page targeted at advanced players? What about section 4.8 Rules differences with Big Box 6?

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 15, 2020, 06:55:11 AM
Big Box 6 difference is fine, I like it.
Interraction, well maybe hide it by default when click, show it by css) ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on August 16, 2020, 04:47:43 PM
Add about wagon movement when the wagon is placed in a castle from Bridges, Castles and Bazaars.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia to do list
Post by: Sinscerly on August 25, 2020, 12:59:36 AM
WikiCarpedia to do list:
1. Create "South Seas", "South Seas Base Game", "South Seas Friday", "Amazonas", "Amazonas Base Game", "Amazonas Amazon River Bonus Tiles", "Star Wars", "Star Wars Base Game", "The Castle", "The Castle Base Game", "The Castle Falcon", "The City", "The City Base Game", "The Discovery", "The Discovery Base Game", "My First Carcassonne", "Cardcassonne", "The Dice Game", "Over Hill and Dale", "Over Hill and Dale Base Game".
2. Complete the Glossary page.
3. The "Spin-offs" section from the Main Page can be rearranged:
* [[Winter Edition|Winter Edition]]: [[Winter Edition Base Game|Base Game]], [[Winter Edition The Gingerbread Man|The Gingerbread Man]], [[Winter Edition Die Kornkreise|Crop Circles]]
* [[South Seas|South Seas]]: [[South Seas Base Game|Base Game]], [[South Seas Friday|Friday]]
* [[Gold Rush|Gold Rush]]: [[Gold Rush Base Game|Base Game]], [[Gold Rush The Sheriff|The Sheriff]]
* [[Amazonas|Amazonas]]: [[Amazonas Base Game|Base Game]], [[Amazonas Amazon River Bonus Tiles|Amazon River Bonus Tiles]]
* [[Hunters and Gatherers|Hunters and Gatherers]]: [[Hunters and Gatherers Base Game|Base Game]], [[Hunters and Gatherers Scout|Scout]]
* [[Star Wars|Star Wars]]: [[Star Wars Base Game|Base Game]], [[Star Wars Expansion 1|Expansion 1]]
* [[The Castle|The Castle]]: [[The Castle Base Game|Base Game]], [[The Castle Falcon|Falcon]]
* [[The Ark of the Covenant|The Ark of the Covenant]]: [[The Ark of the Covenant Base Game|Base Game]]
* [[The City|The City]]: [[The City Base Game|Base Game]]
* [[The Discovery|The Discovery]]: [[The Discovery Base Game|Base Game]]
* [[New World|New World]]: [[New World Base Game|Base Game]]
* [[My First Carcassonne|My First Carcassonne]]
* [[Cardcassonne|Cardcassonne]]
* [[The Dice Game|The Dice Game]]
* [[Over Hill and Dale|Over Hill and Dale]]: [[Over Hill and Dale Base Game|Base Game]]
* [[Safari|Safari]]: [[Safari Base Game|Base Game]], [[Spiel Doch Safari Promo|Spiel Doch! Promo 02/2018]]

1.  Carcassonne Star Wars I'm currently working on. I will also focus on the expansion.
1... If anyone wants to start on another spin off, let me know :)
2.  Feel free to help out  8)
3. Yes, that's the arrangement that was already planned for most.
3. -- We have created hub sections for spin offs where there are expansions for. So example the winter edition. As hill and dale has no expansions we had thought to add no hub behind it. Just some thinkings. ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on October 07, 2020, 11:57:23 PM
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor
(typo) existing text: "A barn not be placed using a magic portal."
suggested edit - "A barn may not be placed using a magic portal."
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on October 08, 2020, 03:26:02 AM
Resolved: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php?title=Abbey_and_the_Mayor&diff=87112&oldid=83220.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on November 30, 2020, 07:40:06 AM
Consistency of major expansion naming

The titles of most of the major expansions as listed in WikiCarpedia are different to the titles as shown on the box art included. This relates to use of "and" instead of "&" and an insertion of an unnecessary "the"! The following changes would make WikiCarpedia consistent with the box art.

1. Inns and Cathedrals > Inns & Cathedrals
2. Traders and Builders > Traders & Builders
3. The Princess and the Dragon > The Princess & the Dragon
4. The Tower
5. Abbey and the Mayor > Abbey & Mayor
6. Count, King and Robber > Count, King & Robber
8. Bridges, Castles and Bazaars > Bridges, Castles & Bazaars
9. Hills & Sheep
10. Under the Big Top
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on November 30, 2020, 02:38:54 PM
This is in our to-do list... We found a way to do this without changing the URLs... We just need to tweak all the required pages...  ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on December 01, 2020, 03:16:12 PM
Thanks Meepledrone

It is "Abbey and the Mayor" which bothers me most! :yellow-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on December 01, 2020, 03:19:40 PM
It is a permanent exercise of self-control in order to keep my OCD under control...  :o
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on December 03, 2020, 05:03:35 AM
Well. What do you thing abount combining Order of Play with Scoring During Game Turn Sequence.
A lot of rules for play are directly in Scorign During Game and also scoring references are in order of play.
Hmm?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on December 03, 2020, 06:22:09 AM
Actually, the Scoring During the Turn Sequence was a first approach to combine Scoring During the Game with the Order of Play... I hid some steps dealing with direct scoring in Step 3B (Computing the majority -affected by Scoring Tiles- and some other preliminary actions...)

At this point, I was pondering if adding more features (options in the Filters tab) to the Tile Reference or stating a new experiment: a visual Order of Play... I envy the summary tables at the end of the Big Box rulebooks... They look so cool and easy to follow, but then check  the Scoring Reference pages at WICA... They become clattered with so many expansions, details, dependencies and overlapping expansions  >:D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on December 03, 2020, 07:40:32 AM
Cool, so I'm waiting for result ;-)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on December 29, 2020, 02:17:32 PM
Hi,

A note on the interaction of wagon and bathhouses is missing on Barber-surgeons and on exp. 5 pages.


Situation 1
If a feature containing only a wagon is closed and there is at least one free bathhouse :


Situation 2
And also... When a bathhouse containing a wagon is completed, can the wagon be placed to an adjacent feature?
I guess no as the rule says
Quote
the Meeple placed in the bathhouse can be taken back immediately and for free

A note on WICA about both those situations would be nice  ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on December 29, 2020, 05:29:21 PM
Hi,

A note on the interaction of wagon and bathhouses is missing on Barber-surgeons and on exp. 5 pages.


Situation 1
If a feature containing only a wagon is closed and there is at least one free bathhouse :
  • Bathhouse action first, wagon second but blocked: The wagon moves to a free bathhouse and is stuck there (the correct answer according to my understanding of the rules)
  • Wagon action first, bathhouse second: The wagon may move to an adjacent feature and if he does so, he doesn't go to a free bathhouse as he's not on the closed feature anymore (seems odd)
  • Bathhouse action first, wagon second: The wagon moves to a free bathhouse and can then move to a feature adjacent to the bathhouse  :)) (seems very odd!)

In general terms, checking if a meeple has to be trapped in a bathhouse should happen first, otherwise you remove the meeple as usual. However for wagons, removing the meeple after scoring may be traded for moving the wagon to another feature, if possible.

The second option, deciding to send a wagon to a bathhouse if it cannot be moved, seems odd, as you mention. Trapping a meeple is unconditional for one-meeple scorings, there is no way to escape from it unless there are no free bathhouse. However, moving the wagon is an alternative (when possible) to returning it to its owner's supply.

The third option would not make sense either. If your wagon is trapped, it cannot move.

The first option is the one considered in the Order of Play (select Exp. 5 and Baber-Surgeons and check step 3B):
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Order_of_Play)

Situation 2
And also... When a bathhouse containing a wagon is completed, can the wagon be placed to an adjacent feature?
I guess no as the rule says
Quote
the Meeple placed in the bathhouse can be taken back immediately and for free

A note on WICA about both those situations would be nice  ;)

When a meeple trapped in a bathhouse is freed (the batthouse is surrounded in 1. Placing a tile or you bought back the meeple in 2. Placing  a meeple, Step 2A) it goes straight to your supply, even the wagon (there is no feature scoring involved here, as required by the wagon to move). Then you can place it in 2. Placing  a meeple, Step 2B-1.

Scenario 1 may use a clarification in The Barber Surgeons. Scenario 2 is just applying the rules, so maybe a clarification wouldn't be necessary.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on December 29, 2020, 06:06:54 PM
On short, which is the correct option? 1, 2 or 3?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on December 29, 2020, 06:12:49 PM
For Situation 1? The first one. The action sequence would be as follows:
1. If meeple has to be trapped in bathhouse, do so
2. If not, if it is a wagon and can be moved, decide if you want to do so
3. Otherwise, return meeple to owner
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on December 29, 2020, 09:55:08 PM
Scenario 1 may use a clarification in The Barber Surgeons. Scenario 2 is just applying the rules, so maybe a clarification wouldn't be necessary.

Agreed, thanks  ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 11, 2021, 06:42:50 AM
Ok. I found some glitch.
When opening for example Scoring during turn sequence. I select mine expansion. When going back, and again to this page, selection is stored and all mine (requested) expansions are checked. When going to Order of play, selection is used from previous page.

But when opening page in another tab, selection is lost.

It's pitty, when wanted to open Scoring during turn sequence and Order of play in two tabs, I have to select all expansions. because in second tab, selection is lost ;-(

Also when going to page again in different tab (means next day after closing browser).
Before, selection was stored in cookies I guesss, and it was easy to check without select all of expansions. Currently need's to go to Filter, swtich also C1 version, go to First / Second and third tab to select all expansions.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 11, 2021, 06:58:36 AM
Please try now!

The pages with the Game Reference, Order of Play and Scoring summaries are using cookies again...  ;)

The Tile Reference use too much information to be stored in cookies, so it will continue to use local storage.

It seems Local Storage has a more compartmentalized behavior than cookies.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 11, 2021, 08:07:41 AM
Cool. It works as expected ;D
And it share it also in Game figures.
Great.

Selection for Tile reference uses different selections based on versions of expansions and it's dificult to shere selection there.

Thank you for quick response.

I was printing to PDF offline version of game sequences because of new expansions and new rules and I was confusing, that It was working before! ;-D

+1 Merit
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 11, 2021, 08:16:35 AM
Thanks!

Yep! The Game Reference shares the same selector, based on expansion rulesets and components.

Luckily, I left everything prepared to easily switch between both behaviors as required...  ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on January 16, 2021, 03:08:15 PM
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Special:AllComments
Also, the reference pages should consider Carcassonne Maps and Spin-offs.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 17, 2021, 03:47:36 AM
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Special:AllComments

Yes, I have to address some comments I couldn't address yet.

Also, the reference pages should consider Carcassonne Maps and Spin-offs.

Regarding Carcassonne Maps, do you mean creating an additional set of Reference Pages with the basic game plus Map Chips only? Or do you suggest to mix everything from Carcassonne Maps in the current Reference Pages set?

Spin-Offs would require separate Reference Pages sets per game rather vanilla in most cases when no expansions are to be considered. 
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on January 17, 2021, 03:56:41 AM
Carcassonne Maps should be included in the currently Order of Play, because Carcassonne Maps can be played with other normal expansions (like Inns and Cathedrals). But you should be able to select only one map and to select the optional option "Map-Chips".
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on January 17, 2021, 04:01:18 AM
Also "Saint Nicholas Scoring Board".
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 17, 2021, 05:00:37 AM
Carcassonne Maps should be included in the currently Order of Play, because Carcassonne Maps can be played with other normal expansions (like Inns and Cathedrals). But you should be able to select only one map and to select the optional option "Map-Chips".

Yes, this can happen, although it is not recommended by HiG.

But, who cares! When I have the opportunity, I'd like to player the USA Maps with one river ending at each coast...  >:D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 17, 2021, 05:48:21 AM
Also "Saint Nicholas Scoring Board".

Ha ha ha! I was looking at this request a few days ago. It would require to add a paragraph to the intro part and a new tag to each spot where a scoring can happen. Something like ST.NICHOLAS.

The intro would explain the rules to get an additional turn, that would happen. But there are some open issues:
* Base Game:
   - Several players meet the conditions at the same time for the "6" or the "24" space: Do all get the double turn or the active player decides the order of scoring and only one gets the extra turn?
   - A player meets both conditions at the same time for the "6" and the "24" space: Does extra turns stack and the player gets two extra turns?
   - Several players meet the conditions at the same time for the "6" and the "24" space: Do all get the double turn or the active player decides the order of scoring and only one gets the extra turn(s)?
* Exp. 2 -  Traders & Builders:
   - How should we handle a anew turn when a double turn is taking place? Should we wait until the whole double turn is complete?
* Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles & Bazaars:
   - How to deal with a new turn when bazaars is involved?  Should we wait until the whole bazaar round is complete?
* Mini #2 - Messages:
   - Should we consider the last scoring figure for the "6" space and the first one for the "24" space?
   - How to deal with a new turn during with Message #7? Should the additional turn happen at the end of the current turn or right after Message #7's turn?
* Exp. 4 - The Tower / Exp. 8 - Bridges, Castles & Bazaars / The Burber-Surgeons / The Peasant Revolts:
   - Points payments may allow scoring figures to go backwards and land or pass the "6" space after it granted an additional turn. Can we assume that the "6" space cannot grant more than one additional turn?

EDIT: Added last question.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: TGD on January 29, 2021, 02:34:46 AM
Shouldn't it be „Each time you do not place a meeple …”? Peasant revolts page
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 29, 2021, 08:46:44 AM
Thanks for the heads up! Carcassonne93 corrected the typo already.  :(y) :(y)

EDIT: Not even 1.5h after your tip.  :o
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Dkmvs on January 29, 2021, 12:49:17 PM
At the Festival tiles, we see this info;

(https://ibb.co/q75tz4n)

The same could be said for meeple caught in bath houses.

Edit: the pic doesn’t load, so..

https://ibb.co/q75tz4n (https://ibb.co/q75tz4n)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 29, 2021, 01:01:46 PM
The Festival can remove one of your figures placed on a tile, including a meeple trapped in a bathhouse.

You cannot remove meeple captured by a tower because it is not placed on a tile but in a opponent's supply off the playing area (the rules are referring to this case). However, you would be able to remove one of your meeples placed on a tower.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Dkmvs on January 29, 2021, 01:34:10 PM
The Festival can remove one of your figures placed on a tile, including a meeple trapped in a bathhouse.

You cannot remove meeple captured by a tower because it is not placed on a tile but in a opponent's supply off the playing area (the rules are referring to this case). However, you would be able to remove one of your meeples placed on a tower.

Ah like That, thanks for the clarification! I haven’t got the tower, and seeing reviews, I’m not interested, so I don’t know the rules/mechanics.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on February 08, 2021, 11:03:04 PM
Hi,

The order or play mentions that "If a volcano symbol is on the tile, place the dragon on this tile." (step 1c).

It should also mention that "If the lake with volcano symbol is on the tile, place the dragon on this tile and go back to step 1b".  :yellow-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: qwe45 on March 08, 2021, 09:59:41 PM
Hi Meeple

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Tower_(1st_edition) should have a line what happen if you do not have enough points to ransom a follower . I checked both RGG and ZMG and both said that if you do not have enough points, you can't ransom a follower.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on March 09, 2021, 03:04:18 AM
Thanks for the heads-up! Update made.  ;D

This sentence was missing in the CAR since it was not included in the original German rules (I checked the expansion rules and Big Box 1 rules). It seems that this clarification was added later in 2006 and some other publishers included this sentence from that moment on: RGG, Devir, Filosofia, ZMG...
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on March 23, 2021, 02:53:00 PM
@Meepledrone. I found interesting sentense in rules today (my Mini 2 Messages are czech C1 design). But in BigBox 6 are written:

EN: CAUTION: You can only draw message tiles when your meeple and messenger are alone. If another player's
meeple or messenger is on a dark space when you land there, you do not draw a message tile.

DE: WICHTIG: Du kannst nur dann Depeschen erhalten, wenn du selbst am Zug bist. Landet eine deiner Zählfiguren
im Zug eines anderen Spielers durch eine Wertung auf einem dunklen Feld, bekommst du keine Depesche.

In Scoring is written, that this is only for Z-Games version. But this is also in german version.
So that this is page is related to C2 rules, it will be good to add it directly to: Dispatch: One of your scoring figures moved and ended up on a dark space of the scoreboard and other players have no one meeple on this space.

This situation is not mentioned on Scoring During Game Turn Sequence https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence in Dispatches section. It will be good to mention it.

Funny thing: Czech Rules of BigBox6 has not this rule. We are still different (because it will be also in Slovak rules :D)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on March 23, 2021, 05:35:20 PM
If you check the translation of the German rules you will see ZMG did a creative translation:

Original rules in German:
Quote
WICHTIG: Du kannst nur dann Depeschen erhalten, wenn du selbst am Zug bist. Landet eine deiner Zählfiguren im Zug eines anderen Spielers durch eine Wertung auf einem dunklen Feld, bekommst du keine Depesche.

Original rules translated into English:
Quote
IMPORTANT: You can only receive messages when it is your turn. If one of your scoring figures lands on a dark space during another player's turn, you do not receive a message.

ZMG version:
Quote
CAUTION: You can only draw message tiles when your meeple and messenger are alone. If another player's meeple or messenger is on a dark space when you land there, you do not draw a message tile.

IMHO ZMG mistranslated the whole paragraph and several other snippets here and there in the BB6 rules to my dismay. You may check some of the mistranslation affecting Minis #2, #6 and #7 here (please check all the rows referencing footnotes 12 and 13):
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Summary_of_Rule_Sets_%26_Changes (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Summary_of_Rule_Sets_%26_Changes)

So WICA sticks to the German wording in this case. That's why this extra restrictions are not considered in the Reference Pages.



Additional comments

ZMG translates each paragraph, so it may seem correct but sometimes you may be surprised by some of them. Precisely earlier today on Discord I mentioned another case that caught my eye regarding Exp. 2 in Big Box 6. The rules in Big Box 6 are include additional text and examples not included in the standalone version of the rules for the base game, Exp. 1 and 2. So the proud owners of a Big Box 6 can enjoy richer rules and more discrepancies provided by ZMG. >:D

Check the following discrepancy regarding the pig in Big Box 6:

Original paragraph in German:
Quote
Falls dein Schwein durch Entfernen von Bauern (was durch manche Erweiterungen möglich ist) auf einer Wiese steht, auf der keiner deiner Bauern mehr liegt, nimmst du es in deinen Vorrat zurück.

Same paragraph translated into English:
Quote
If your pig, due to removal of farmers (which is possible with some expansions), is left standing during the game in a field where none of your farmers are left, return it to your supply.

Translation provided by ZMG:
Quote
If your pig is removed from the field, return it to your supply.

So you can see that ZMG replaced the original wording in the paragraph by something unrelated that provides almost no information in this case. They missed the point: the removal of a pig because its supporting farmers are gone.

If anyone comes across any additional discrepancy not reflected properly in WICA yet, please let me know. They usually hide in plain sight waiting for someone to notice them. Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on March 24, 2021, 04:06:49 AM
I see. Understood

Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on March 24, 2021, 04:57:53 AM
Actually, back in the day, I included the restriction you mentioned as a general rule for C2 but I removed it shortly after I realized it was just an addition by ZMG.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on April 28, 2021, 12:26:49 AM
Something's strange on the Easter in Carcassonne page.

It says:
Quote
If an Easter Nest is completed with a dragon tile, the movement of the bunny takes place after the dragon has been moved, if it is still on the tile.

But... An easter nest completition doesn't trigger a bunny movement ? It triggers an easter nest scoring. Shouldn't it be:

"If an Easter Nest is completed with a dragon tile, the scoring of the easter nest takes place after the dragon has been moved, so meeples eaten by the dragon won't get any easter egg, even if they were adjacent to the easter nest" ?

And for
Quote
The dragon eats the Easter bunny figure (a dragon can't miss that).
This is important only to the fact that the bunny cannot hop on a tile with the dragon. Anytime else, since the bunny is played only when a bunny tile is placed (cannot occur alongside with a dragon tile), and no matter where the bunny is (in play or not, eaten or not), we have to place it on the bunny tile, having the bunny eaten by the dragon doesn't change anything?

Or did I miss something ?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 28, 2021, 04:57:34 AM
Something's strange on the Easter in Carcassonne page.

It says:
Quote
If an Easter Nest is completed with a dragon tile, the movement of the bunny takes place after the dragon has been moved, if it is still on the tile.

But... An easter nest completition doesn't trigger a bunny movement ? It triggers an easter nest scoring. Shouldn't it be:

"If an Easter Nest is completed with a dragon tile, the scoring of the easter nest takes place after the dragon has been moved, so meeples eaten by the dragon won't get any easter egg, even if they were adjacent to the easter nest" ?

And for
Quote
The dragon eats the Easter bunny figure (a dragon can't miss that).
This is important only to the fact that the bunny cannot hop on a tile with the dragon. Anytime else, since the bunny is played only when a bunny tile is placed (cannot occur alongside with a dragon tile), and no matter where the bunny is (in play or not, eaten or not), we have to place it on the bunny tile, having the bunny eaten by the dragon doesn't change anything?

Or did I miss something ?

I've been revisiting the comments on CarcF about the fan expansion rules and there were some comments about this interaction with the dragon. The rules indicate that a dragon tile completing an Easter nest triggers an extra Easter Bunny phase. Some forum members thought this extra Easter bunny phase was undeserved but it finally made it into the rules.

You can also see that the Easter bunny wasn't originally eaten by the dragon. In the end, the HiG rules changed this and allowed the dragon to eat the bunny. However the wording was not totally updated as it reads the following (the words highlighted in red make no sense if the dragon eats the dragon):

Quote
The dragon eats the Easter bunny figure (a dragon can't miss that). The bunny can be on the same tile as the fairy and the dragon. If an Easter Nest is completed with a dragon tile, the movement of the bunny takes place after the dragon has been moved, if it is still on the tile.

So the rules in WICA are okay. The issue is that the wording may be misleading since an Easter Nest triggering additional Easter Bunny rounds is not something aligned with the basic rules of the expansion. The wording seems to reinforce or clarify something happening as a consequence of the rules instead of adding a new action.

I added a clarification in this regard to WICA.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on April 28, 2021, 05:20:45 AM
The footnote 11 makes it clearer, though it seems too far fetched to add this bunny phase...  :-\

Don't you think "If an Easter Nest is completed with a dragon tile, the movement of the bunny takes place after the dragon has been moved, if it is still on the tile." was just the result of the authors writing the rules to late at night and confusing bunny tiles and nest tiles?  :yellow-meeple:

Footnote 11 is still lacking some informations though. Do we place the bunny on the dragon tile, just like if it was a bunny tile? Or does the bunny starts its phase from the tile wher it stopped at the end of the last bunny phase?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 28, 2021, 06:43:03 AM
It sounds odd to me too, but they discussed this particular point on CarcF, as you can see in the thread containing the following post showing the disagreement about this particular edge case:

https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=1000&start=110#p13218 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=1000&start=110#p13218)

And, after all the debate, it made it to the final rules.

Note the original fan expansion rules assumed the dragon could not eat the Easter bunny, but this ruling was reverted in the final HiG rules (although the wording of the rules contained the incoherence I mentioned earlier).
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on April 28, 2021, 07:01:57 AM
Ok, and do you know, for that specific edge case, if we place the bunny on the dragon tile, just like if it was a bunny tile? Or does the bunny starts its phase from the tile where it stopped at the end of the last bunny phase?
If there's an answer to that, it should be added to footnote 11 too  :yellow-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 28, 2021, 08:09:32 AM
Ok, and do you know, for that specific edge case, if we place the bunny on the dragon tile, just like if it was a bunny tile? Or does the bunny starts its phase from the tile where it stopped at the end of the last bunny phase?
If there's an answer to that, it should be added to footnote 11 too  :yellow-meeple:

Good point.

There is no specific clarification for this case, but the bunny is only placed or moved when an Easter Bunny tile is placed. This means that the bunny starts to move from its last position. If the bunny is not still in play or was eaten by the dragon, the Easter Bunny phase may not take place.

I extended the clarification in WICA to reflect all this. I also updated the Order of Play accordingly for this edge case.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on April 28, 2021, 08:26:12 AM
Thanks, seems good on WICA now  :yellow-meeple:

And still, I'll not play that awkward rule  ;D

And I won't include it in my French order of play :o :o :o >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on April 28, 2021, 08:33:35 AM
Mon Dieu. Ce n'est pas possible !  :o

Ha ha ha! It's a superfluous edge case in my humble opinion too, but the author wanted to include it in the rules...  :-\
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on April 28, 2021, 08:49:14 AM
Mon Dieu. Ce n'est pas possible !  :o
Ha ha  ;D ;D

Ha ha ha! It's a superfluous edge case in my humble opinion too, but the author wanted to include it in the rules...  :-\

Very edged case, 99% chance to miss it the one time it may occur out of 50 games, and very odd rule  :yellow-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Whaleyland on July 21, 2021, 04:22:51 AM
I just realised that there is no mention of Games Quarterly 11 expansion at all on https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River). I feel some mention is required, especially since playing with it obviously entails removing a Spring tile from one of the other expansions.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on July 21, 2021, 04:24:46 AM
CutCassonne could be mentionned and added to the tile distribution too  :yellow-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on July 21, 2021, 06:03:25 AM
Should tiles that do not actually exist as tiles be included in the tile distribution?  ???
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on July 21, 2021, 06:09:54 AM
I'd say any tile that's official (CutCassonne is present on WICA and has its own tile distribution section, like any other tile based expansion)  :yellow-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on July 21, 2021, 11:59:48 AM
As suggested, I updated the following pages. Hope you like it:

* C1: River:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition) (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition))

* C2 River:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River)

Any additional comments?  :)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: corinthiens13 on July 21, 2021, 12:55:08 PM
+1 merit for good and fast work!  :yellow-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on July 21, 2021, 01:17:55 PM
My pleasure! Thanks a lot!  ;D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on July 21, 2021, 02:13:40 PM
Quote
I'd say any tile that's official (CutCassonne is present on WICA and has its own tile distribution section, like any other tile based expansion)
Fair enough. It's just funny when you say it out loud like that  ;D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on July 24, 2021, 07:41:54 AM
On Crop Circles page the text says: Crop Circles I was originally released by Hans im Glück in 2010.
However, in visual timeline the base game with Crop Circles I shows it being released in 2009. So shouldn't CCI be released in 2009?
Or is the date of release of the box incorrect?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on July 24, 2021, 08:04:50 AM
Crop Cricles I first appeared in Germany as a bonus expansion shrinkwrapped to the Carcassonne base game in 2009, and was later available directly from the publisher Hans im Glück in 2010.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on July 24, 2021, 10:00:59 AM
Yes I know, what I am asking is why isn't it then stated as first released in 2009?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on July 24, 2021, 10:25:29 AM
Because it wasn't available as a standalone mini until 2010.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on July 24, 2021, 11:12:10 AM
Is that a requirement for an expansion to be released in a standalone form to be considered released for the first time?
If so, why is it not applied everywhere? For example Shrines and Heretics is correctly stated to: Heretics and Shrines (or Shrines and Heretics) was originally released by Hans im Glück in 2007 as part of Count, King and Robber. ; despite being only released as a standalone in 2008.

I think the Crop Circle page should include a sentence similar to the one in S&H page. Something like: "Crop Circles I was originally released by Hans im Glück in 2009 included with the base game in some German versions of the game. It was later made available as a standalone expansion in 2010."
That is, after all, the year it was first available and actually first released.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on July 24, 2021, 02:02:38 PM
Rearranged intro of C1 Crop Circles. Thanks for the suggestion!  :(y) :(y)

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles_(1st_edition) (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles_(1st_edition))
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on July 24, 2021, 04:06:06 PM
Nice, thanks!  :orange-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on January 28, 2022, 10:47:42 AM
    There is a something interesting I have noticed in the Historical perspective of scoring  page, more specifically in the
A summary of changes over time section. The entire page only takes german and english publishers into consideration and the information reflects that. However, publishers in different countries have editions not corresponding to those present in the A summary of changes over time section. For example a Czech/Slovak edition from circa 2002/2003 has the following configurations (following the format of the section):

    Scoreboard – 50 points, brown
    Small (2-tile) City – 2 points
    Farmer – stands up (tip: place farmer lying down)
    Farmer scoring – 2nd edition[/li][/list]

I propose to include a disclaimer on the page regarding this issue, something like "The information about release differences is derived from german and english editions only and does not necessarily relfect the situation in countries with different publishers."
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 28, 2022, 11:20:46 AM
Thanks for the heads-up.

I added a disclaimer with a similar idea. Let me know if it works for you.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition) (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition))
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on January 28, 2022, 01:20:31 PM
That seems appropriate. Great, thanks! There are in fact other similar cases in the expansion rules such as different points of meeple vs figure distinction recognition or small city score. I suspect those all stem from the source used for translation of the rules and subsequent consistency.

One notable thing (which I am not sure if present in any other publishers or languages) is that Czech/Slovak C1 Exp. 8 rules, constituted the first time the 2-point small city was changed into 4-point small city - and even then the wording implied it was only to be used when playing with that expansion (presumably to make the decision between grabbing the city or converting to castle something actually worth considering).
I could go on and on about these curiosities, but it is no longer relevant - every C2 release is up to date with the 3rd edition rules and figure vs follower distinction.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 28, 2022, 01:36:58 PM
What a mess!!! This is true gaslighting with the rules...
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on February 02, 2022, 04:44:59 AM
A small typo on the page of Scout expansion for H&G footnote 9:
Question: Once I have placed the hut on the Agriculture tile, can anyone place a hunter in that meadow? Answer: No. But of course you may connect two (ore more) meadows later in the game, as usual. Then you could have a hut getting points for the size of the meadow and a hunter scoring for the animals.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on February 02, 2022, 04:51:39 AM
Thank you for letting us know. Typo corrected!  ;D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Doom_Shark on February 06, 2022, 09:39:42 PM
I've just found a couple minor typos in the German Castles page, in the section concerning Dragon movement:

"The dragon affects the whole tile when it lands on it, but it may represents to steps in its movement."

"Represent" has an "s" added to it, and the wrong "two" is used.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on February 07, 2022, 12:04:18 AM
Thanks for the heads-up!

Typos corrected! ;D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on May 10, 2022, 11:03:02 AM
The River page contains the following typo at the begginning: The 1st. Edition of River was release in 2001.
The sentence should read: The 1st. Edition of River was released in 2001.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 10, 2022, 11:33:11 AM
Typo corrected!

Thank you so much for the heads-up. ^-^
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on May 10, 2022, 12:47:14 PM
Thanks! Here's another one: The Labyrinths was originally release by Spiel Doch! in 2016.
Corrected: The Labyrinths was originally released by Spiel Doch! in 2016.

Also, it seems the terms 1st and 2nd edition are not consolidated throughout the WICA. Sometimes they are written as 1st. Edition/2nd. Edition, and other times 1st edition/2nd edition. There are possibly other versions. The term New Edition is also quite prevalent, but now that C3 is apparently here, what is truly the "new edition"? Is it the most recent edition or any non-C1 edition, or should the term be abandoned?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 11, 2022, 12:23:06 AM
Thanks! Here's another one: The Labyrinths was originally release by Spiel Doch! in 2016.
Corrected: The Labyrinths was originally released by Spiel Doch! in 2016.

Typo corrected! Thanks again.

Also, it seems the terms 1st and 2nd edition are not consolidated throughout the WICA. Sometimes they are written as 1st. Edition/2nd. Edition, and other times 1st edition/2nd edition. There are possibly other versions. The term New Edition is also quite prevalent, but now that C3 is apparently here, what is truly the "new edition"? Is it the most recent edition or any non-C1 edition, or should the term be abandoned?

Yep. We have to address this. The references to C1 and C2 weren't consistent in the CAR and the C1/C2/C3 convention was adopted later, so we would need to retrace our steps a bit and do a little housekeeping in this regard. Not only the references you mention are inconsistent, but you may find 1st Edition, Carcassonne I, C I... Always waiting for the right moment to and the right approach to address all this. :-\
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on May 11, 2022, 01:38:24 PM
Hopefully this will be worked out in the future for the sake of consistency.

Meanwhile here is another thing I found. The following answer lacks the text for actual answer:

Question: If you don't extend the road with the Solovei Razboynik tile but you manage to place a follower on it, does this action trigger the follower capture automatically?

Answer: (11/2021)


Text to be added:  Correct, if there is a meeple appearing on a road, the Solovei Razboynik tile is triggered and you resolve the capture again.

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 11, 2022, 02:43:37 PM
Thank you for the heads-up. :(y) :(y)

Missing answer added.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Halfling on May 11, 2022, 11:20:02 PM
Hi Meepledrone,

At what point does New Edition become 2nd Edition and the c3 become New Edition, or more likely straight to 3rd Edition in WikiCarc?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 12, 2022, 12:34:35 PM
C3 starts with Peasant Revolts... But there is not so much contents to make a full split... It would be odd for the visitor to the home page. (C3 is just a step forward from what you could find in the CAR v7.4 about C2)

@Bumsakalaka and I are testing some new concepts on this WIP version of the home page, where there is only one list and you can see which rules stride across editions for the time being.

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page_Test (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page_Test)

All your comments are welcome...
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Scott on May 13, 2022, 06:40:34 AM
@Bumsakalaka and I are testing some new concepts on this WIP version of the home page, where there is only one list and you can see which rules stride across editions for the time being.

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page_Test (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page_Test)

All your comments are welcome...

I like it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: barth on May 13, 2022, 07:40:07 AM
C3 starts with Peasant Revolts... But there is not so much contents to make a full split... It would be odd for the visitor to the home page. (C3 is just a step forward from what you could find in the CAR v7.4 about C2)

@Bumsakalaka and I are testing some new concepts on this WIP version of the home page, where there is only one list and you can see which rules stride across editions for the time being.

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page_Test (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page_Test)

All your comments are welcome...

This looks great, way better than the current Home Page version!

As for the suggestions, I think it would look better without the bullet points, and the expansion icons/logos could be in their own table column (with "Logo" heading maybe?) rather than share the same column with the expansion name ("Edition").
Such column will reserve an empty space for logo, so even if the logo picture is missing the expansion names will all be aligned.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 13, 2022, 08:57:42 AM
Yep. Bullets could go away....

Regarding a separate column with the expansions symbols, it could be a valid option. They are fake bullets I copied over just to see the effect.

We were assigning default symbols to expansions that have one... For example: the base game uses the Carcasssonne "C". There are some expansions such as The river or The Abbot that use a symbol that is not represented on its tiles, if any. So there are interesting cases that we use as a reference. Some other expansions, such as The School or The Land Surveyours to name a couple, may use a tile image or something to represent them. Let's see what we come up with.

Currently we are testing some new templates created by
@Bumsakalaka that can generate logos + name and links to the correct page depending on the version. This would mean that all the cross references between expansions would be translated only once and be updated everywhere. That's why you see some red test untill the whole thing is finished.

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on May 13, 2022, 11:01:36 AM
I think if you are going to use other images for the expansions which do not have a symbol, it should be clear that they are not symbols. What I mean by this is that any pictures used to represent the expansion should be ideally colored instead of just being a silhouette to differentiate them from actual watermarks.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 13, 2022, 12:11:50 PM
Yes, it would be a small version of a tile in full color. Let's see if it works.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Halfling on May 13, 2022, 12:57:20 PM
I like it, an explanation of C1, C2 and C3 would be useful.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 13, 2022, 01:52:56 PM
It was part of the plan...

I was thinking about including one tile sample per edition and spin-off as a visual cue. Let's see how it looks.

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on May 15, 2022, 07:25:33 AM
I have one question - in the visual timeline of releases, are the items ordered chronologically within the years? They do seem to be in roughly chronological order going from top of the cells to bottom, but is there a real attempt to do this?If yes, how sure are we of the correct order (especially of some older items) and am I correct to assume the left to right top to bottom reading order as old to recent (within the year cell)?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 15, 2022, 08:05:05 AM
In the Visual Timelines, the idea is to list items in chronological order within each year (left to right and top to bottom). We had to combine info from different sources so if you detect any discrepancies, please let us know and we will reorder the items accordingly. Even the CAR and BGG may contain some inaccuracies, as you already spotted.

Thanks for your help. ^-^
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on May 15, 2022, 08:39:08 AM
Thanks! I did not find any discrepancies yet, but should I detect any in the future I'll let you know  :(y)

I did find the following misinformation though on the crop circle page (1st ed.):
"Crop Circles I was originally released by Hans im Glück in 2010 as an independently packaged expansion included in a limited edition of the German base game of Carcassonne. It was later made available as a standalone expansion the same year."

It should read:
Crop Circles I was originally released by Hans im Glück in 2009 as an independently packaged expansion included in a limited edition of the German base game of Carcassonne. It was later made available as a standalone expansion the next year.

We discussed this before actually (p11) and you even corrected the page, so someone had to made a different change since then. This was either by mistake, or if this was an actual correction what is the source for this?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 15, 2022, 10:19:33 AM
I updated the info according to the Comments povided by LaPorxada on WICA. Check this page at the very bottom:

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles_(1st_edition) (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Crop_Circles_(1st_edition))
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on May 15, 2022, 10:48:36 AM
Thanks, that is exactly the type of thorough evidence/report I was hoping for! That finally puts this particular chronology to rest. In that case, the visual timeline should be updated to having the base+CCI edition in the 2010 cell.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 15, 2022, 10:54:55 AM
The surprising thing is that the expansion page mentioned 2009 but the Timeline pages stated 2010. :o
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on May 15, 2022, 11:20:13 AM
Well, in the visual timeline, currently I see the base game+crop circles I in the 2009 cell and the standalone version in 2010 cell. Both should be in 2010.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 15, 2022, 11:46:24 AM
Sorry, I only checked the Crop Circles mini but not the Limited Edition set. No moved to the right placed on the Visual Timeline and the global Timeline.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on May 15, 2022, 12:08:36 PM
Great! I have to say I was originally responsible for adjusting the BGG date from 2010 to 2009 (based on our previous discussion), but now with this new information it needs to be reverted. I will see to that.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 15, 2022, 12:42:01 PM
Nice! Thanks for taking care of that.

Entropy is being reduced step by step. ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 15, 2022, 02:44:52 PM
Nice! Thanks for taking care of that.

Entropy is being reduced step by step. ;)
Haha, sometimes is increasing, for example when creating new module or new system :D  (Testing mention @Meepledrone)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on May 15, 2022, 03:54:02 PM
Correction was put forward on BGG, we'll see how long it takes to approve... last time it was 6 months  :o

EDIT: It has already been approved!  :yellow-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: totor66 on May 16, 2022, 02:53:08 AM
I was playing zamek the other day and we had a small disput how to score 2 separe scoring on the same turn (it was 2 points and 4 points)

It mattered to end up on a corner with a bonus round thingy. It wasn't explained clearly, I looked on original the castle rules and there it was specified that we do scoring separately, so we could indeed take the bonus tile (in case of 6 points straight, it wouldn't be possible)

Maybe a footnote at the end also ?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 16, 2022, 09:05:23 AM
Clarification added to Zamek. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 16, 2022, 03:16:46 PM
I like it, an explanation of C1, C2 and C3 would be useful.

Small intro about the editions included and also a table with a visual cue fo each spin-off at down below.

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page_Test (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page_Test)

All your comments are welcome... ^-^
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DrMeeple on May 16, 2022, 03:27:09 PM
I like it, an explanation of C1, C2 and C3 would be useful.

Small intro about the editions included and also a table with a visual cue fo each spin-off at down below.

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page_Test (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page_Test)

All your comments are welcome... ^-^
Beautiful and amazing visual job! Love it! Very satisfying to have each spin off. The falcon of Zamek version is coming soon…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 24, 2022, 05:41:12 AM
In Game Reference in upper table is table with phases and activities during game.
But then visitor scrolls down, and when finished preparation of game, next chapter is final scoring.
So as this page is called Game Reference, I think it will be good to add between Preparation and final scoring also section for Order of play with links to proper pages because user can be confused.
So idea is to make better UX
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 24, 2022, 05:44:56 AM
Another UX request is, if it's possible to make popup or tooltip for ROBBERS or ROBBER CHOISE on mouse over. this will be better for players didn't know this expansion and start to play with this expansion.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 24, 2022, 05:53:03 AM
3. Maybe use same figure image in Order of play for robbers and robber choice like used in Scoring During Turn Sequence to be consistent on page. And also use that popup/tooltip on Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence page.

4. Same popup/tooltip for Castle token.

5. It is confusing that there are two different scoring during game pages Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence and Scoring_During_the_Game, I know that's based on CAR, but we can move on and use that new style, which is more detailed.

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 24, 2022, 06:14:36 AM
What do you think @Meepledrone?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: wolnic on May 24, 2022, 07:42:48 AM
The falcon of Zamek version is coming soon…

Did you mean on WICA, or the Test Page? It's been on WICA for a few months ...
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 24, 2022, 11:21:07 AM
In Game Reference in upper table is table with phases and activities during game.
But then visitor scrolls down, and when finished preparation of game, next chapter is final scoring.
So as this page is called Game Reference, I think it will be good to add between Preparation and final scoring also section for Order of play with links to proper pages because user can be confused.
So idea is to make better UX

Maybe it would be better to split the page in three, so the actual Game Reference (global structure of the game), the Preparation (setup sequence) and Final Scoring (final sequence) are separate pages.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 24, 2022, 12:02:32 PM
Another UX request is, if it's possible to make popup or tooltip for ROBBERS or ROBBER CHOISE on mouse over. this will be better for players didn't know this expansion and start to play with this expansion.

I think ROBBER CHOICE is an unneeded construct that stems from the need to make compatible the order of evaluation of the features according to their dependencies (e.g. castles and features completed in their fief) and the order the points are scored on the scoreboard (e.g. robbers and messengers)...

Normally we try to score using one loop driven with the points noted on the scoreboard to control robbers, messages, the teacher and meeples bathhouses... The order of scoring decided by players may clash 100% with the order features should be evaluated according to their dependencies and scoring rules (castles, watchtowers, tollhouses...).

If you are allowed to separate the evaluation of features from the scoring of the associated points in two separate steps when required (two independent loops for the most complex cases so to speak), you could accommodate any complex situation involving constraints. (I tried to discuss this with the HiG reps, but they couldn't cope with so much complexity... :'()

This separation may need you to jot down the points as you evaluate each feature and then each player may decide their order of scoring to manage everything happening on the scoreboard and its consequences with a global perspective:
* Figures to move on the scoreboard
* Points stolen by robbers
* Landing on dark spaces to receive messages
* Points to be received by the Teacher
* Meeples to be sent to a bathhouse (no loop needed, just designating the meeples affected)
Meeples would be removed when the points are finally noted on the scoreboard (second loop), not when features are evaluated (first loop). This would also avoid any issues when evaluating watchtowers scoring for meeples.

All in all, this is a change I've been thinking to reflect for a while so the ROBBER CHOICE artifact goes away.

Any comments? ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 24, 2022, 12:19:35 PM
3. Maybe use same figure image in Order of play for robbers and robber choice like used in Scoring During Turn Sequence to be consistent on page. And also use that popup/tooltip on Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence page.

4. Same popup/tooltip for Castle token.

Another project is doing the Order of Play more visual, like the one in the Big Box rulebooks... ;)

5. It is confusing that there are two different scoring during game pages Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence and Scoring_During_the_Game, I know that's based on CAR, but we can move on and use that new style, which is more detailed.

The former requires some updates as soon as HiG confirms when following scorings take place:
* The Abbot (The C3 rules in German seem to indicate Step 3A although no other language includes this detail - previously, this would happen in Step 2B-1 according to Georg Wild)
* Shepherd flocks (Step 2C or Step 3A?)
* Acrobat pyramids (Step 2B-1 or Step 3A?)
* Fruit Actions (Step 2C or Step 3A?)

So far, I'm keeping the C2 approach for the sake of consistency until HiG clarifies this whole thing. Waiting since 11/2020 for a clear answer.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on May 27, 2022, 12:45:50 AM
Ok. Land Surveyoras simulator.
I know that setup there is by rules. But it can be more UX when it will be divides to two rows
1. current scoring tiles
2. Upcomming scoring tiles.
And maybe on button add some text like Active player scores feature(s) - Choose next scoring tiles

Something like this:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Land_Surveyors_Simulator/sk

Maybe it will be good to add some description about current scoring tiles, how this affect scoring.
But this will be maybe good to created over translatable templates which will be included here, and also on Land Surveyors page. To share "exact same" translation of explanation of each scoring card.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on May 28, 2022, 08:40:35 AM
I stuck with the rules layout to make it fit in a cell phone screen: scoring tiles + buttons at a glance.

The layout you suggest requires me to scroll up and down when displayed on landscape. I cannot see the next tiles and the buttoms at the same time.

Including the description of the tile could be done in a collapsible box... But we would need a workaround for the Mobile View, since it disables the standard collapsible elements.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on June 08, 2022, 11:15:03 AM
On Easter of Carcassonne, there is table with differences between original and HiG rules.
In Bunny placement there is sentence for original rules:
Bunny placement - Placed on Easter Nest tile (only placed on Easter Bunny tile if bunny not in play)
I think that I don't understand and can not correctly to translate it.
I understand that Bunny is placet to Easter Nest tile.
But that () part?
Only placed on Easter Bunny tile if bunny not in play - this has to rewritten somehow.
It can be placed immediately next turn player if there is at least Easter Bunny tile, or when Easter Bunny tile is placed and bunny is not in game, as bring back bunny as quick as possible, or something else?

Thanks :D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on June 09, 2022, 12:43:47 AM
There are two possible scenarios:

1) An Easter Nest has been placed before the first Easter Bunny tile: the Easter bunny placed on the Easter Nest starts to move..
2) No Easter Nest has been placed before the first Easter Bunny tile: the Easter bunny is not placed on the board yet, so the rules tell you to place it right away on the Easter Bunny tile and move it from there.

The Easter Nest is similar to the volcano tile for the dragon and the Easter Bunny tile is similar to the dragon tile. The difference is that an Easter Bunny tile drawn before an Easter Nest is placed as usual and serves as an implicit Easter Nest tile. No Easter Bunny tiles are set aside until the first Easter Nest tile is placed as opposed to the dragon tiles drawn before a volcano for the dragon.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on June 10, 2022, 02:13:06 AM
Understand. I will expand this in translation. But maybe it will be good to explain this in rules.
Thanks
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on June 16, 2022, 02:48:48 PM
I noticed an inconstistent useage of "medieval" and "mediaeval" throughout WICA. Both are technically correct, but it may confuse some people.
I would recommend sticking to more commonly used form "medieval", which search would indicate currently has 41 uses, rather than lesser used "mediaeval" with only 9. 
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on June 18, 2022, 01:08:15 AM
On Easter in Carcassonne reference that Bunny can be on same tile as fairy is about dragon and bunny on same tile.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Easter_in_Carcassonne_(1st_edition)#cite_note-14
No mention about faire there
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on June 20, 2022, 08:47:02 AM
On Easter in Carcassonne reference that Bunny can be on same tile as fairy is about dragon and bunny on same tile.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Easter_in_Carcassonne_(1st_edition)#cite_note-14
No mention about faire there

The issue here is that the Easter bunny cannot share the tile with the dragon if the dragon can eat it.

The Easter bunny sharing a tile with the fairy is not an issue. Do you want to stress anything in this regard?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on June 20, 2022, 12:12:14 PM
It's ok. But reference is placed to sentence with fairy. So if it's bad placement it (reference) has to be placed to correct rule sentence.

Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on June 20, 2022, 12:34:28 PM
The footnote is in the right place. It clarifies that the original rules read:

Quote
The bunny can be on the same tile as the fairy and the dragon.

But the part in red was removed from WICA because it contradicted the previous sentence in the same paragraph:

Quote
The dragon eats the Easter bunny figure (a dragon can't miss that).

Question: How could the Easter bunny be on the same tile as the dragon if it is eaten? Therefore, the part in red must have been a mistake in the final rules.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on June 20, 2022, 03:57:34 PM
Btw Meepledrone, this probably got buried in the conversiation, although it is nothing urgent:
Quote
I noticed an inconstistent useage of "medieval" and "mediaeval" throughout WICA. Both are technically correct, but it may confuse some people.
I would recommend sticking to more commonly used form "medieval", which search would indicate currently has 41 uses, rather than lesser used "mediaeval" with only 9. 
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on June 21, 2022, 01:00:42 AM
Btw Meepledrone, this probably got buried in the conversiation, although it is nothing urgent:
Quote
I noticed an inconstistent useage of "medieval" and "mediaeval" throughout WICA. Both are technically correct, but it may confuse some people.
I would recommend sticking to more commonly used form "medieval", which search would indicate currently has 41 uses, rather than lesser used "mediaeval" with only 9. 

Fixed.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on June 21, 2022, 04:49:47 AM
Btw Meepledrone, this probably got buried in the conversiation, although it is nothing urgent:
Quote
I noticed an inconstistent useage of "medieval" and "mediaeval" throughout WICA. Both are technically correct, but it may confuse some people.
I would recommend sticking to more commonly used form "medieval", which search would indicate currently has 41 uses, rather than lesser used "mediaeval" with only 9. 

Fixed.

Thanks both...

I was keeping an eye on your messages. Nice to see it has been taken care of. ;)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on June 21, 2022, 05:00:26 AM
Thanks!
The last one is remaining in Gold Rush:
"...but moves it from mediaeval France to the American Wild West. "
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on June 21, 2022, 05:10:01 AM
Thanks!
The last one is remaining in Gold Rush:
"...but moves it from mediaeval France to the American Wild West. "

Marked it for translation to remove last reference.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: tolstukha286 on July 11, 2022, 05:06:51 PM
Hi everyone!

I've been researching history of releases of Carcassonne in Russia and I spotted a couple of mistakes on Wiki about one of the compilations.

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Variants#Russian_Compilation_2

"Noble towers" is not the right translation of box's name. The right one is "Nobles and towers" (that's obviously a typo, it's called the right way in other places.

Also, that compilation doesn't contain "Count, King & Robber" in it's entirety. Instead, it contains three separate parts of that expansion:
- The Count
- River II
- Heretics and Shrines - Spielbox version with 5 tiles and pentagon symbol

That makes sence as King is included in Compilation 1.
There's the link to the box's rules for proof: https://www.mosigra.ru/image/data/mosigra.product.other/550/047/carc_tower.pdf
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Willem on July 12, 2022, 03:46:05 AM
Hey Tolstukha286!

Thanks, despite having all the boxes, I didn't spot it yet!
 I'll have a look to update later this week once I'm back home

It can also be interesting to hear what you've found about the Russian releases.
I've managed to collect most of the C1 releases that I'm aware of, but there can always be new things we didn't know off
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: tolstukha286 on July 12, 2022, 01:58:28 PM
Hey Tolstukha286!

Thanks, despite having all the boxes, I didn't spot it yet!
 I'll have a look to update later this week once I'm back home

It can also be interesting to hear what you've found about the Russian releases.
I've managed to collect most of the C1 releases that I'm aware of, but there can always be new things we didn't know off

Well it's good to be useful  :D

I found info on wikiCarcpedia the most complete on the web. The only mistakes I found are what I mentioned above.

Also, there were few recent releases not mentioned in wiki

Bix Box (equivalent to BB6) https://hobbyworld.ru/karkasson-big-box
Carcassonne C3 https://hobbyworld.ru/karkasson-novoe-izdanie
Carcassonne Junior 2nd edition https://hobbyworld.ru/karkasson-junior
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on July 13, 2022, 04:03:40 AM
Hi @tolstukha286 !

Welcome to the forum!!!

Thanks for letting us no about this mistakes and the new releases.

Thanks for your kind words, we try to cover as much as possible. ;)

BTW, if you have any suggestions for the wording of the Russian Promos (name of the expansion(s), for example) please let us know. Sometimes the translations we rely on may miss some nuances. I've seen the expansion called some times "We go to Carcassonne" or "Russian Fairy Tales"... I'd like to know what would be the best way to call them beyond the current neutral name used on WICA.

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition) (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition))

The page includes some clarifications we got from Hobby World and don't know if they are well known to the community.

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Willem on July 13, 2022, 07:41:14 AM
I've updated the description of the 2nd Russian Compilation with the above information :)

Also, i've added the Russian 2nd edition Kids of Carcassonne, Russian BB6 and several C3 base games to the Collections&Expansions page  ;D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: tolstukha286 on July 13, 2022, 02:39:59 PM
Hi @tolstukha286 !

Welcome to the forum!!!

Thanks for letting us no about this mistakes and the new releases.

Thanks for your kind words, we try to cover as much as possible. ;)

BTW, if you have any suggestions for the wording of the Russian Promos (name of the expansion(s), for example) please let us know. Sometimes the translations we rely on may miss some nuances. I've seen the expansion called some times "We go to Carcassonne" or "Russian Fairy Tales"... I'd like to know what would be the best way to call them beyond the current neutral name used on WICA.

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition) (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition))

The page includes some clarifications we got from Hobby World and don't know if they are well known to the community.

Thanks in advance!

Thanks Meepledrone!

Regarding "Russian promos".

There's a page of the publisher's website https://hobbyworld.ru/news/promo-serija-russkie-skazki-dlja-nastolnoj-igri-karkasson
Its caption reads as "'Russian Fairy Tales' promo-batch" so I think this title can be viewed as the official one.
The article below states it as "4 mini-expansions"

I was surprised to find out from one of the links in comments that the first version of the expansion was on sale as just a "Scoreboard Bag". Only details on the product's page revealed that it also includes "exclusive tiles 'Izbushka' and 'Bogatyr'".

BTW, there's C2 "Scoreboard Bag" on sale - unfotunately, without any tiles. https://hobbyworld.ru/meshok-schetchik-karkasson-2-e-rus-izd

The inscription on the drawstring bag reads as "All roads lead to Carcassonne" and that looks more as a slogan then a title for the expansion.
"We go to Carcassonne" was written on the coasters mentioned in the comments on the page. Those coasters and that slogan has little connection to the expansions.



Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Willem on July 14, 2022, 12:01:17 AM
Ah the bag is available again.
Thanks to
@Decar placing a bulk order a few years (!) ago, some people here managed to get one. Nice to see that they have a new batch of them, as I like the look of mine!
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: LaPorxada (aka BigBoss) on July 14, 2022, 02:00:09 AM
sorry, but before wrong expectations might be caused.
The newer cloth bag has also not been on sale from Hobbyworld for quite a long time.

Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: tolstukha286 on July 14, 2022, 02:08:35 AM
sorry, but before wrong expectations might be caused.
The newer cloth bag has also not been on sale from Hobbyworld for quite a long time.

Sorry, by bad. Didn't check the availability
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on July 15, 2022, 05:23:48 AM
Added reference to "Russian Fairy Tales promos." Thanks!
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: LaPorxada (aka BigBoss) on July 16, 2022, 07:46:19 PM
sorry, but before wrong expectations might be caused.
The newer cloth bag has also not been on sale from Hobbyworld for quite a long time.

Sorry, by bad. Didn't check the availability

Hey, no problem!
Thank you for your important corrections and thus your contribution to the WikiCarpedia.
 :gray-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: DIN0 on August 26, 2022, 01:09:46 PM
Summary of rule sets and changes includes the following mistake:
In crop circle section the two options are both "adding a follower action". One of them should be remove follower action.

Wagon movement rules change includes the following mistakes:
the title should read "Wagon movement rules changes" (unless this was deliberate for some reason?)
"Since a field (farm) is also an feature" → Since a field (farm) is also a feature
"Moving the dragon depends entirely on feature adjacency" → Moving the wagon depends entirely on feature adjacency
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on August 28, 2022, 01:22:04 AM
Summary of rule sets and changes includes the following mistake:
In crop circle section the two options are both "adding a follower action". One of them should be remove follower action.

This is okay. Both changes affect the "adding a follower action." No change is required.

Wagon movement rules change includes the following mistakes:
the title should read "Wagon movement rules changes" (unless this was deliberate for some reason?)

This was deliberate, since there is only one big change. Does it sound too odd? I changed to its plural just in case.

"Since a field (farm) is also an feature" → Since a field (farm) is also a feature
"Moving the dragon depends entirely on feature adjacency" → Moving the wagon depends entirely on feature adjacency

Ooooops! Mistakes corrected.

Thanks for your support! ^-^
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on September 04, 2023, 04:43:12 PM
On this page - https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition) (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition)) - in the first section "A Brief History of Farmers" there is a tile illustration with three text boxes headed "first score", "second score" and "third score". In the first two the word "even" should be replaced with "even though".
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on September 05, 2023, 04:04:44 AM
@cicerunner –  :(y) Done: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php?title=Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition)&diff=285975&oldid=208555.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: oldbonz on September 23, 2023, 12:49:21 AM
how do we obtain the printable files of “Covid 19”?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Black Bear on September 23, 2023, 02:40:56 AM
FR
Salut Oldbonz,
J’ai vu passer le post à propos de l’extension COVID-19 et ta réponse sur le Facebook des joueurs de Carcassonne. Bumsakalaka m’a informé que le serveur du forum tchèque était hors-ligne et on ne peut plus obtenir le PDF par ce biais, pour le moment. J’ai laissé un post sur la page Facebook. Il faudrait trouver quelqu’un qui a déjà téléchargé le PDF.

EN
Hi Oldbonz,
I saw the post about the COVID-19 expansion and your reply on the French Carcassonne players' Facebook. Bumsakalaka has informed me that the Czech forum server is offline and you can't get the PDF from there at the moment. I've left a post on the Facebook page. We'll have to find someone who has already downloaded the PDF.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: oldbonz on September 23, 2023, 03:22:59 AM
OK thank you, if you have any information in the future, let me know
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Chmura on September 27, 2023, 12:25:56 AM
The extension for Carcassonne Covid-19 can be downloaded again from the Czech carcassonne forum! It's up and running again! :(y)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on October 20, 2023, 10:28:53 AM
This page - https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Count,_King_and_Robber - includes the text, "Closing a city with trade goods is not does not stop you from sending a meeple to the city of Carcassonne."
The words emphasised in bold by me should be deleted.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on October 20, 2023, 10:53:17 AM
Typo corrected!

Thank you so much for letting us know. ^-^
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on November 23, 2023, 05:34:20 AM
A suggestion re this page:
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Count,_King_and_Robber#General_info_and_comments (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Count,_King_and_Robber#General_info_and_comments)

This sentence:
This page contains all the information for this major expansion but the River II, that is described on a separate page dedicated to the New Edition River expansions.


Could perhaps be better as:
This page contains all the information for this major expansion except the River II, which is described on the separate River page.
(where the underlining indicates a hyperlink to that page -
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/River (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/River))
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on November 23, 2023, 06:07:38 AM
A suggestion re this page:
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Count,_King_and_Robber#River_II (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Count,_King_and_Robber#River_II)

These sentences:
Even if you complete more than one feature at the same time, you may not receive any points for any of them, so you can use this option. You may place a maximum of one meeple in the city of Carcassonne per turn. [5]

You can only place your Abbot in the cathedral in Carcassonne. [6]


Could possibly be better as:
To use this option when you complete multiple features at the same time, you must not gain points for any of them. You may place a maximum of one meeple in the city of Carcassonne per turn. [5]

In the city of Carcassonne, you can only place your Abbot in the cathedral. [6]
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 23, 2023, 08:11:59 AM
A suggestion re this page:
In the city of Carcassonne, you can only place your Abbot in the cathedral. [6][/i]

This is not good and correct. Because when you will bread it, it means, that in to Cathedral can be placed only Abbot. Which is not correct. Because in Cathedral can be placed also any other meeple, which can be placed on Monastery.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on November 23, 2023, 11:48:16 AM
A suggestion re this page:
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Count,_King_and_Robber#General_info_and_comments (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Count,_King_and_Robber#General_info_and_comments)

This sentence:
This page contains all the information for this major expansion but the River II, that is described on a separate page dedicated to the New Edition River expansions.


Could perhaps be better as:
This page contains all the information for this major expansion except the River II, which is described on the separate River page.
(where the underlining indicates a hyperlink to that page -
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/River (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/River))

Thanks for the suggestion. I extended the text based on your suggestion a bit:

Quote
This page contains all the information for this major expansion except the River II, which is described on the separate River page along with other river expansions.

What do you think?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on November 23, 2023, 12:10:11 PM
Requested updates included as follows:

Quote
To use this option when you complete multiple features at the same time, you must not gain points for any of them. You may place a maximum of one meeple in the city of Carcassonne per turn. [5]

In the city of Carcassonne, your Abbot can only be placed in the cathedral. [6]
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 23, 2023, 01:11:01 PM
In the city of Carcassonne, your Abbot can only be placed in the cathedral. [6]
[/quote]
Ok, this is good.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on November 30, 2023, 05:27:40 AM
Re, "What do you think?"
Yes, all the updates look good to me as implemented. :)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on November 30, 2023, 03:17:12 PM
Thanks!  ^-^
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on December 01, 2023, 01:31:21 AM
Ok. I found possible 2 "logical" bugs in Expansion Selector.

1st situation:
We are playing Base game with Under the Big Top (Exp 10), but only Ringmaster. So we are playing all tiles from base game, and all tiles from Expansion 10.
So when I score Feature with Ringmaster, then I have to score also 2 points per Acrobat space and per Circus space.

But if I don't have checked Circus or Acrobats space in expansion selector, I will not have rules for scoring Ringmaster in Game references page.

I think it's wrong, because if I checked Circus means, that I have a circus game mechanics in a game. The same for Acrobats.

2nd situation:
Opposite situation is, in Expansion 11. I can play tiles, but none of Cemetery, Ghosts, Guard meeplese. But there is a mist. How to handle this?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on December 01, 2023, 08:46:45 AM
Ok. I found possible 2 "logical" bugs in Expansion Selector.

1st situation:
We are playing Base game with Under the Big Top (Exp 10), but only Ringmaster. So we are playing all tiles from base game, and all tiles from Expansion 10.
So when I score Feature with Ringmaster, then I have to score also 2 points per Acrobat space and per Circus space.

But if I don't have checked Circus or Acrobats space in expansion selector, I will not have rules for scoring Ringmaster in Game references page.

I think it's wrong, because if I checked Circus means, that I have a circus game mechanics in a game. The same for Acrobats.

This extra condition was added on purpose, assuming that no acrobats/circus meant no acrobat/circus spaces either. I could relax this constraint... Not an issue.


2nd situation:
Opposite situation is, in Expansion 11. I can play tiles, but none of Cemetery, Ghosts, Guard meeplese. But there is a mist. How to handle this?

For the logic, ghosts and mist go together. If no ghosts, no mist.

Do you prefer a separate option for mist? 
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on December 02, 2023, 09:52:30 AM
Ok. I found possible 2 "logical" bugs in Expansion Selector.

1st situation:
We are playing Base game with Under the Big Top (Exp 10), but only Ringmaster. So we are playing all tiles from base game, and all tiles from Expansion 10.
So when I score Feature with Ringmaster, then I have to score also 2 points per Acrobat space and per Circus space.

But if I don't have checked Circus or Acrobats space in expansion selector, I will not have rules for scoring Ringmaster in Game references page.

I think it's wrong, because if I checked Circus means, that I have a circus game mechanics in a game. The same for Acrobats.

This extra condition was added on purpose, assuming that no acrobats/circus meant no acrobat/circus spaces either. I could relax this constraint... Not an issue.
This is important for me, because in JCZ you can play Ringmaster, but not play Circus and Acrobats. Then Ringmaster is still getting 2 points, because tiles are playing.

2nd situation:
Opposite situation is, in Expansion 11. I can play tiles, but none of Cemetery, Ghosts, Guard meeplese. But there is a mist. How to handle this?

For the logic, ghosts and mist go together. If no ghosts, no mist.

Do you prefer a separate option for mist? 

Yes, it will be fine. I know also situation which I will handle with this possibility.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on December 11, 2023, 01:39:56 PM
Update of Order of play need to be updated in step 1B.
Quote
If you chose to draw extra tiles for your fortune teller(s), you must choose a valid tile from the ones left, if any. Discard and re-shuffle the rest.
it will be good to rewrite to something like
Quote
If you chosen to draw extra tiles for your fortune teller(s) in first part of double turn, you must choose a valid tile from the ones left, if any. Discard and re-shuffle the rest.



This will be more clear for players.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: wolnic on December 11, 2023, 03:39:48 PM
Update of Order of play need to be updated in step 1B.
Quote
If you chosen to draw extra tiles for your fortune teller(s) in first part of double turn, you must choose a valid tile from the ones left, if any. Discard and re-shuffle the rest.

If you have chosen ... in the first part of a double ...
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on December 12, 2023, 11:50:50 AM
Update applied!
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on December 12, 2023, 03:02:27 PM
Ok. I found possible 2 "logical" bugs in Expansion Selector.

1st situation:
We are playing Base game with Under the Big Top (Exp 10), but only Ringmaster. So we are playing all tiles from base game, and all tiles from Expansion 10.
So when I score Feature with Ringmaster, then I have to score also 2 points per Acrobat space and per Circus space.

But if I don't have checked Circus or Acrobats space in expansion selector, I will not have rules for scoring Ringmaster in Game references page.

I think it's wrong, because if I checked Circus means, that I have a circus game mechanics in a game. The same for Acrobats.

This extra condition was added on purpose, assuming that no acrobats/circus meant no acrobat/circus spaces either. I could relax this constraint... Not an issue.
This is important for me, because in JCZ you can play Ringmaster, but not play Circus and Acrobats. Then Ringmaster is still getting 2 points, because tiles are playing.

2nd situation:
Opposite situation is, in Expansion 11. I can play tiles, but none of Cemetery, Ghosts, Guard meeplese. But there is a mist. How to handle this?

For the logic, ghosts and mist go together. If no ghosts, no mist.

Do you prefer a separate option for mist? 

Yes, it will be fine. I know also situation which I will handle with this possibility.

Updated the Ringmaster. Now it dos not require checking Acrobats and/or the Circus in the selector.

I left Exp. 11 unchanged: The Mist is used by Ghosts and Haunted Castles. Why would you need to include it in the selector? It doesn't score points for itself. If you select Ghosts, it assumes the Mist is present in order to activate their placement. Similar case for Haunted Castles in order to score points... If Mist would be the only item selected in Exp. 11, it would have no effect.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on December 13, 2023, 06:52:34 AM
Thanks for change.

I left Exp. 11 unchanged: The Mist is used by Ghosts and Haunted Castles. Why would you need to include it in the selector? It doesn't score points for itself. If you select Ghosts, it assumes the Mist is present in order to activate their placement. Similar case for Haunted Castles in order to score points... If Mist would be the only item selected in Exp. 11, it would have no effect.

Yes, please add it. I will be needed by Obelisk Fan Expansion. And I'm thinking also for Vistas.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on December 18, 2023, 03:21:15 AM
Ok. New suggestion:
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Carcassonne_Order_of_Play_for_Discussion Expansion selector is not showed.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on December 18, 2023, 12:22:30 PM
I found Feature which is missing on Expansion List - Selector.
Reward like King / Robber Barron.
There are several expansion using this like
* Merry Men
* Hiker
* Praesidium
* Cleric & Serf
* Dragon Killers
* Angler and Fish Farms
* Bastions

and more

This will be fine to filter by this feature, find them and print them.



Do you think it's possible @wolnic
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: wolnic on December 23, 2023, 08:29:34 AM
Thanks for suggesting this. It's probably a good one to include, as there are more than a couple of examples.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: wolnic on December 24, 2023, 07:23:25 AM
I've been through the list and identified about a dozen expansions which feature a character tile that works in roughly the same way as King or Robber Baron. The new category will appear in the next data refresh, but that's not expected to be for a while. I have excluded Character tiles that are mixed in with the other tiles and only cause a specific action when they are drawn, and have not considered expansions that have a generic Character meeple (such as The Teacher, or something using The Count piece in another role) which might be passed between players, or moved around the board, throughout the game.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on December 28, 2023, 06:22:24 PM
I want to translate the new version of https://wikicarpedia.com/car/File:Carcassonne_Figures_C1_C2_WE_English.png. I have listed the words that need translation at https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Carcassonne_Game_Figures/ro#cs-comment-98219. What should I do? Do I have to manually translate the image by editing it, or there is another way?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on January 06, 2024, 09:58:30 AM
I want to translate the new version of https://wikicarpedia.com/car/File:Carcassonne_Figures_C1_C2_WE_English.png. I have listed the words that need translation at https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Carcassonne_Game_Figures/ro#cs-comment-98219. What should I do? Do I have to manually translate the image by editing it, or there is another way?

Any help, please? :)

I could replace the text myself, but I need acces to a textless copy of this is image do to so: https://wikicarpedia.com/images/e/e2/Carcassonne_Figures_C1_C2_WE_English.png.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on January 07, 2024, 09:56:12 AM
Also, the C3 image of gardens is too large: https://imgur.com/a/bDJEYOW.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 07, 2024, 10:42:06 AM
I want to translate the new version of https://wikicarpedia.com/car/File:Carcassonne_Figures_C1_C2_WE_English.png. I have listed the words that need translation at https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Carcassonne_Game_Figures/ro#cs-comment-98219. What should I do? Do I have to manually translate the image by editing it, or there is another way?

Any help, please? :)

I could replace the text myself, but I need acces to a textless copy of this is image do to so: https://wikicarpedia.com/images/e/e2/Carcassonne_Figures_C1_C2_WE_English.png.

Maybe @tdriling can help with this.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 07, 2024, 10:43:35 AM
Also, the C3 image of gardens is too large: https://imgur.com/a/bDJEYOW.

@Bumsakalaka Could you have a look at the garden symbols for C3 and th 20th Anniversary Edition? They are displayed bigger than the symbol for C2. The C2 symbol is the right size.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 07, 2024, 10:58:17 AM
Ok. New suggestion:
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Carcassonne_Order_of_Play_for_Discussion Expansion selector is not showed.

Selector added.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on January 08, 2024, 07:16:23 AM
Ideas/suggestions for future / To-do list for future:


Note: This is just a brainstorm of possible ways to improve WICA for those who are willing to do so. If you have other ideas, please add them.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 08, 2024, 10:04:04 AM
Also, the C3 image of gardens is too large: https://imgur.com/a/bDJEYOW.

@Bumsakalaka Could you have a look at the garden symbols for C3 and th 20th Anniversary Edition? They are displayed bigger than the symbol for C2. The C2 symbol is the right size.

Ok. I will. Problem of C2 is that it's not croped. I'll fix it with @Snearone
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: kelderek on January 08, 2024, 10:18:50 AM
Dutch page for 1st edition Princess & Dragon lacks the tile distribution ("Tegelverdeling")

https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon_(1st_edition)/nl
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on January 08, 2024, 10:29:22 AM
Dutch page for 1st edition Princess & Dragon lacks the tile distribution ("Tegelverdeling")

https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon_(1st_edition)/nl

@kelderek: :(y) Done (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php?title=The_Princess_and_The_Dragon_(1st_edition)/nl&diff=320929&oldid=317407)!

However, the page is marked as 100% translated, but I spotted an untranslated fragment:

Quote
However, because the magic portal counts as a feature, a wooden follower and the Phantom '''cannot''' BOTH use the magic portal on a turn – the first follower placed on the magic portal claims the magic portal, and no follower (including the Phantom) can be placed on a claimed feature. (1/2013)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: kelderek on January 08, 2024, 10:51:44 AM
Quote
However, because the magic portal counts as a feature, a wooden follower and the Phantom '''cannot''' BOTH use the magic portal on a turn – the first follower placed on the magic portal claims the magic portal, and no follower (including the Phantom) can be placed on a claimed feature.

I would translate that to...
Quote
Maar, omdat de magische poort telt als een project, kunnen een houten horige en de Volgeling in een beurt niet beide gebruik maken van de magische poort  - de eerste horige die op de poort wordt geplaatst claimt de poort, en geen horige (waaronder de Volgeling) mag op een geclaimd project worden geplaatst.

And while we're at it:
The tile distribution only shows 29 tiles: one dragon is missing
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 08, 2024, 10:56:45 AM
@Meepledrone please, why is phase 2 in Scoring during Turn sequence called: 'Round 2 - End of "move wood" phase' when it's written above
'Step 2A: Move the Wood (Prologue) - Before any figure or token placement action'

Isn't this correct name 'Round 2 - Start of "move wood" phase'?

https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on January 08, 2024, 12:15:39 PM
And while we're at it:
The tile distribution only shows 29 tiles: one dragon is missing

@kelderek: :(y) Done (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php?title=The_Princess_and_The_Dragon_(1st_edition)&diff=321101&oldid=263930).
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: kelderek on January 08, 2024, 12:20:34 PM
@NGC 54 Thank you, this satisfies my CDO
(that's like ODC, but with the letters in alphabetical order, as they should be)
 :black1-meeple:
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on January 08, 2024, 03:59:24 PM
@Meepledrone please, why is phase 2 in Scoring during Turn sequence called: 'Round 2 - End of "move wood" phase' when it's written above
'Step 2A: Move the Wood (Prologue) - Before any figure or token placement action'

Isn't this correct name 'Round 2 - Start of "move wood" phase'?

https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence

This step didn't exist before The Barber-Surgeons (buying back a meeple right before placing it) was released. Later Exp. 11 & The Spells (placing ghosts) joined the team. Therefore its generic name to accommodate anything that might come. So far, it has served us well.

Step 2A: Move the Wood Prologue or Step 2A: Move the Wood Preamble could work just fine to finally remove the parentheses. I used "Prologue" for not using "Phase 0" back in the day without further infomation. ;)

The description of the phase could be Preliminary actions. So we talk about actions and not about phases. Before any figure or token placement action falls a bit short since Exp. 11 & The Spells perform numerous actions affecting ghosts and meeples in this step now. This would match the scope of Step 2C: Resolve Move the Wood - Rest of actions as well.

Whatever decision is made, we should then update both Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence  and Order_of_Play accordingly.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 15, 2024, 02:48:52 AM
Whatever decision is made, we should then update both Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence  and Order_of_Play accordingly.

Please @Meepledrone can you added it to the Scoring During Turn Sequence because I'm working on it. And you know what and where to set.

But I have another question.

In Scoring During Turn Sequence, each feature have "Feature Scoring row which indicate, which scoring rules affect value of feature. And also icons which scoring can be made when this feature is scored - Robbers / Castle / Teacher / And Ringmaster (added for now just for Vistas).

But this information is missing for Cemeteries and Haunted Castles. Should it be added also? I suppose then yes. Fortune teller scores 0 points for owner, which can fire Castle scoring. So it can be also for Exp 11 features, right?
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on January 16, 2024, 01:36:14 PM
For Scoring During Turn Sequence:

For roads there are several types of tiles and one Land surveyor tile on which depends final length of the road.

When we know the length of road, then we can consider it's scoring.

So my suggestion is to move these rules on beginning of Feature scoring to define final count of tiles and after them, define scoring of this road like 1 point / tile except German Cathedrals etc.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on February 09, 2024, 10:21:08 AM
There are equal signs at the "1. Placing a tile" sections. Examples: https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Flier#Gameplay.

LE: It's OK now.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Death Meeple on February 12, 2024, 03:03:45 AM
Hello,

I haven't noticed the Lucca map on WiCa, shouldn't it be added? :)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on February 18, 2024, 12:35:43 PM
Yes, we will add it. Hope I have some time for it soon.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on February 19, 2024, 03:20:02 AM
On this page: https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition)

The first diagram is labelled "1st score, 2nd score, 3rd score". For consistency with the main text it should be labelled, "1st edition, 2nd edition, 3rd edition".
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: wolnic on February 19, 2024, 06:03:01 AM
This might cause some confusion, as the three "editions" refer to different rules releases of the First Edition game release (artwork by Doris). It needs changing, yes, but maybe other terminology used throughout? "Release" or "Version"? It may have been based on the original CAR.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on February 19, 2024, 06:05:02 AM
On this page: https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition))

The first diagram is labelled "1st score, 2nd score, 3rd score". For consistency with the main text it should be labelled, "1st edition, 2nd edition, 3rd edition".

Well, when usually C2 is marked as 2nd edition and C3 as 3rd edition of Carcassonne, then it will be better to name as 1st version rules, 2nd version rules and 3rd version rules.

It better than confusing 1st edition rules of 1st edition of Carcassonne, 2nd edition rules of 1st edition of Carcassonne, etc.

This have no impact to Editions (C1/C2/C3), but to rules adaptation in specific Cx edition.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Bumsakalaka on February 19, 2024, 06:05:28 AM
Same time @wolnic - release is good :)
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on February 21, 2024, 03:17:56 PM
On this page: https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition))

The first diagram is labelled "1st score, 2nd score, 3rd score". For consistency with the main text it should be labelled, "1st edition, 2nd edition, 3rd edition".

Well, when usually C2 is marked as 2nd edition and C3 as 3rd edition of Carcassonne, then it will be better to name as 1st version rules, 2nd version rules and 3rd version rules.

It better than confusing 1st edition rules of 1st edition of Carcassonne, 2nd edition rules of 1st edition of Carcassonne, etc.

This have no impact to Editions (C1/C2/C3), but to rules adaptation in specific Cx edition.
I'm not really following ... If there is a better wording than the one I suggested, I am completely happy to be corrected and see that implemented. The current wording definitely does need changing though, so that the main body of the text and the diagram labels are consistent.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: cicerunner on February 21, 2024, 03:20:12 PM
On this page:
https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Icons

The final paragraph reads as follows:
Quote
Old rule which is not valid yet, because was changed or removed from newer editions or releases.

If I have understood the intent correctly, I would suggest rewording this as follows:
Quote
Older rules which are no longer valid because they were changed or removed in later editions or releases.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on February 25, 2024, 04:02:09 AM
On this page: https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition))

The first diagram is labelled "1st score, 2nd score, 3rd score". For consistency with the main text it should be labelled, "1st edition, 2nd edition, 3rd edition".

Well, when usually C2 is marked as 2nd edition and C3 as 3rd edition of Carcassonne, then it will be better to name as 1st version rules, 2nd version rules and 3rd version rules.

It better than confusing 1st edition rules of 1st edition of Carcassonne, 2nd edition rules of 1st edition of Carcassonne, etc.

This have no impact to Editions (C1/C2/C3), but to rules adaptation in specific Cx edition.
I'm not really following ... If there is a better wording than the one I suggested, I am completely happy to be corrected and see that implemented. The current wording definitely does need changing though, so that the main body of the text and the diagram labels are consistent.

This might cause some confusion, as the three "editions" refer to different rules releases of the First Edition game release (artwork by Doris). It needs changing, yes, but maybe other terminology used throughout? "Release" or "Version"? It may have been based on the original CAR.

I updated the page trying to explain this nuances. Let me know if I succedded, or some additional clarifications would be needed. I tried to keep the CAR convention.

https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition) (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring:_A_Historical_Perspective_(1st_edition))
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Vital Pluymers on February 25, 2024, 05:56:21 AM
In the Gifts the word "afterwards" is misspelled (afterwords instead of afterwards) in the section handling the interaction of the 'Change Position card' with 'Exp. 2 - Traders & Builders'.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: wolnic on February 25, 2024, 08:43:42 AM
I updated the page trying to explain this nuances. Let me know if I succedded, or some additional clarifications would be needed. I tried to keep the CAR convention.

I think that might be enough, but the table cells below the example may still need to be updated as they still say "1st score", '2nd score", '3rd score".
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on February 25, 2024, 09:36:21 AM
Update done! ;D
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: NGC 54 on February 25, 2024, 07:16:14 PM
Some comments about the interactions between The Signposts and The Market of Leipzig are outdated; see https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Signposts#Footnotes.
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on March 08, 2024, 11:14:50 AM
Added some clarifications to Wonders of Humanity. Also moved some footnotes to the main text.

https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Wonders_of_Humanity)

Finally we got some pending clarifications about Notre-Dame and fields touching only a wonder. ^-^
Title: Re: WikiCarpedia: request corrections or submit suggestions here
Post by: Meepledrone on March 11, 2024, 04:19:44 PM
Hello,

I haven't noticed the Lucca map on WiCa, shouldn't it be added? :)

Done! Please find it here:

https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Lucca_Map_Mini_Game (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Lucca_Map_Mini_Game)