Author Topic: Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)  (Read 357 times)

Offline Sir Lose-a-Farm

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Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)
« on: October 09, 2022, 03:22:54 AM »
1. Do kidnapped meeples count for the Wheel of Fortune "Storm" event?
Quote
Every player receives 1 point for every follower currently in his or her their supply
We had an extensive discussion on the meaning of "supply". The definition is: "A stock or amount of something supplied or available for use" so the first impression was that only your own meeples had to be counted. But then an extensive discussion on the meaning of "use" arised: isn't exchanging prisoners a way to "use" a meeple? So also kidnapped meeples should be counted. What do you guys think?

2. Why do Wheel of Fortune events have gloomy names but they are (almost) all favorable to the players?
I would imagine events named "Famine" or "Storm" would be something to avoid. Instead, they give points to everyone. Isn't this weird? Fortune and Pestilence are the only two events that "make sense", semantically speaking: the "Taxes" event is more of a refund, isn't it?  ;D

3. When a wolf enters a field, the shepherd runs away, together with all their sheeps...
...except for the two sheeps on the BB5 river tiles. Are they the most brave sheeps ever? And the wolf respects that, and this is why it doesn't eat them?  O:-)

4. Can the "Pestilence" event be used to remove a own meeple from a tower?
Unless I missed something out, the rules are not 100% clear about this. They say:
Quote
If a follower is deployed to the top of a tower [...] The follower remains on top of the tower until the end of the game and is not removed or returned to the player unless eaten by the dragon or captured by another tower.
But also:
Quote
Removal of the follower on the tower by other mechanics, such as the use of a Festival tile, is also possible.
So I'm not sure what is actually allowed and what not.

5. Determining the closest meeple during/after a Catapult "exhange" action that hits and move a meeple
Let's say this happens:

Who's the closest meeple, the red one or the blue one? Once the catapult action has been performed, red is closer... but only because blue was knocked away. If we bring back blue to its original position, blue is the closest one.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6108.0
I forgot to score the fairy bonus point. Again.

Offline ny1050220

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Re: Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2022, 07:29:37 PM »
I feel it's better to interpret "supply" as a stock of meeples you can deploy.
Wikicarpedia says that in the Pest event, "[e]very player must return 1 follower from a land tile to his or her supply" (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Wheel_of_Fortune_(1st_edition)). This seems to rely on the assumption that "supply" refers to your own meeples.

And about removing a meeple during Pest... My understanding is that you can remove one from the tower. I don't think Tower was intended to be used together with Wheel, so interactions were not something the publisher meticulously worked on. When it says "...unless eaten by the dragon or captured by another tower", it seems that they were only considering the major expansions #3 and #4 and the gist is that "[t]he follower remains on top of the tower until the end of the game and is not removed or returned to the player unless otherwise allowed by other expansions". Festival was something much later, so its ruling should prevail. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2022, 07:39:34 PM by ny1050220 »

Offline Decar

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Re: Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2022, 02:30:33 AM »
Please can you split these questions into separate posts?
If they're about different expansions, it will help people in future find the answers.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2022, 11:35:52 AM »
Q1. Do kidnapped meeples count for the Wheel of Fortune "Storm" event?
Quote
Every player receives 1 point for every follower currently in his or her their supply
We had an extensive discussion on the meaning of "supply". The definition is: "A stock or amount of something supplied or available for use" so the first impression was that only your own meeples had to be counted. But then an extensive discussion on the meaning of "use" arised: isn't exchanging prisoners a way to "use" a meeple? So also kidnapped meeples should be counted. What do you guys think?



A1. There is no clarification about this particular case, but if you check the rules of Exp. 4 - The Tower, you may find this:

C1 rules:
Quote
When the player takes a follower of another player prisoner, then the capturing player should place the prisoner clearly in front of themselves. If the player takes one of his or her own followers prisoner, it should be returned to the supply.

C2 rules:
Quote
Whenever you place a tower floor, you may immediately take 1 meeple off the board; it can belong to any player, including yourself. The captured meeple is placed in front of you. When "capturing" your own meeple, return it to your supply.

As you can see, the rules make a distinction between capturing a player's own meeple and an opponent's meeple. The player's meeples return to their supply whereas the meeples captured from an opponent are just placed in front of the player. Therefore, a captured meeple is not part of your supply so it is not counted for the Storm action of the Wheel of Fortune.
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2022, 11:45:46 AM »
Q2. Why do Wheel of Fortune events have gloomy names but they are (almost) all favorable to the players?
I would imagine events named "Famine" or "Storm" would be something to avoid. Instead, they give points to everyone. Isn't this weird? Fortune and Pestilence are the only two events that "make sense", semantically speaking: the "Taxes" event is more of a refund, isn't it?  ;D



A2. We don't know. Maybe it is just an artistic license.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2022, 11:53:32 AM »
Q3. When a wolf enters a field, the shepherd runs away, together with all their sheeps...
...except for the two sheeps on the BB5 river tiles. Are they the most brave sheeps ever? And the wolf respects that, and this is why it doesn't eat them?  O:-)



A3. Maybe they are experts in sheep martial arts. Those sheep are also inmune to the dragon. Who knows if they may even survive a nuclear holocaust!

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2022, 12:07:13 PM »
Q4. Can the "Pestilence" event be used to remove a own meeple from a tower?
Unless I missed something out, the rules are not 100% clear about this. They say:
Quote
If a follower is deployed to the top of a tower [...] The follower remains on top of the tower until the end of the game and is not removed or returned to the player unless eaten by the dragon or captured by another tower.
But also:
Quote
Removal of the follower on the tower by other mechanics, such as the use of a Festival tile, is also possible.
So I'm not sure what is actually allowed and what not.



A4. No official clarifications available for this case either. The only limitation in the rules os that you cannot remove a meeple from the crown of the Wheel of Fortune, but any meeples in special areas such as the tower, the City of Carcassonne ot a bathhouse, to name a few, are not covered.

Therefore, the simplest approach is to assume that you may remove any meeple on the board except those on the crown, as it it part of the same expansion. You may house rule any options you may like:
* You can only remove meeples on normal features that can be scored (including castles and non-square tiles). The Wheel of Fortune is off-limits.
* You can only remove meeples on normal features that can be scored and on top of towers. The Wheel of Fortune is off-limits.
* You can only remove meeples on any feature except the Wheel of Fortune, the city of Carcassonne, the city of Leipzig, bathhouses and Russian Promo tiles (the default case extended to other special features).
* You can remove meeples on any feature except the Wheel of Fortune (the default case given in the rules following the strict rules).
 

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2022, 12:51:11 PM »
Q5. Determining the closest meeple during/after a Catapult "exhange" action that hits and move a meeple
Let's say this happens:

Who's the closest meeple, the red one or the blue one? Once the catapult action has been performed, red is closer... but only because blue was knocked away. If we bring back blue to its original position, blue is the closest one.



A5. Only the Knock out token considers meeples been knocked over or moved sonce all of them will be removed.

Other actions such as Seduction and Target hurling do not cover this possibility, since the meeples may stay in place or exchanged. Therefore, any meeple moved or knocked over should be returned to its original position as if no token had hit them. At this point, you should proceed with the chosen action.

Offline Sir Lose-a-Farm

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Re: Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2022, 03:06:01 PM »
Thank you for all the comments! It's incredible how a game that looks so simple gets to reach levels of complexity out of this world.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Various doubts and oddities (more or less serious)
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2022, 03:39:15 PM »
Welcome to our favorite maze of rules!


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