Two doubts about German Castles expansion

[BBG]

The rules say: "If a road or a city which ends on the Castle tile is completed, players get bonus points. Each player who gets points gets 3 bonus points for each castle which is involved."
So, to get the bonus point, I must score a city, not just complete it, is this correct? If I complete a city or a road with no meeples on it, I get nothing, right?

Also, let's say I complete a 4 tile road that starts from a German Castle and ends into another. Rules say I get "4 points for the road and 2 x 3 points for the castles". This means I have three different scorings to manage with my messenger (4, 3 and 3)? Or do I have to consider only two (4 and 6)?

Sorry if this has been already explained somewhere.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6530.0

[NGC 54]

I assume a game with only the Base game + Castles in Germany + The Messengers.

If you complete a city that contains a German castle tile, you must score it, not complete it, in order to receive the 3 points bonus. So you would get no points if you do not have the majority in that city.

If you complete a 4 tile road that starts at a German castle and ends at another, and you have the majority on the road, you would score 10 points for the road (4 + 3 + 3). So not 4 and 6, or 4 and 3 and 3; you have only one scoring to manage with your scoring figure.

See https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Scoring_During_Turn_Sequence for details regarding the scoring during the game.

[BBG]

If you complete a 4 tile road that starts at a German castle and ends at another, and you have the majority on the road, you would score 10 points for the road (4 + 3 + 3). So not 4 and 6, or 4 and 3 and 3; you have only one scoring to manage with your scoring figure.

Oh, this surprises me a bit. I was sure every different scored feature would be counted as a separate scoring. If by placing a tile I score both a 4 point road and a 12 point city, for example, I can move my scoring meeple by 4 and my messenger by 12, OR do the opposite, OR I can move one of the two by 16. This is correct, right? I thought it was the same for every other feature and so in this scenario too, since I didn't see the German Castles as "part" of a road.

[NGC 54]

Oh, this surprises me a bit. I was sure every different scored feature would be counted as a separate scoring.

Yes, every scored feature counts as a separate scoring.

If by placing a tile I score both a 4 point road and a 12 point city, for example, I can move my scoring meeple by 4 and my messenger by 12, OR do the opposite, OR I can move one of the two by 16. This is correct, right?

Yes, this is correct.

I thought it was the same for every other feature and so in this scenario too, since I didn't see the German Castles as "part" of a road.

The bonus from German castle(s) is "part" of the road.

Depending on the expansions used, you have different bonuses that are either "part" of the road or not. The following are "part" of the road and cannot be scored independently (they are scored by moving once either the scoring meeple or the messenger):

• The regular 1 point / tile
• German cathedral bonus
• Inn bonus
• Mage bonus OR Witch penalty
• German castle bonus
• Bathhouse bonus
• Signpost bonus
• Bathhouse bonus
• Labyrinth bonus
• Ghost penalty

The following are associated with the road, but are not "part" of it, and they can be scored independently, so you can score one of this bonuses with, say, the scoring meeple, while scoring the road itself (the bullets listed above) with the messenger:

• Tollhouse bonus
• Watchtower bonus
• Fairy bonus
• Ringmaster bonus
• Wainwrights quarter bonus

[BBG]

Thank you for the clarification. Is there any "general/global rule" on why something is "part" of a feature or not, or is just decided depending on the specific case? I really can't understand what differentiates the german castle bonus from the watchtower bonus, so that they have different way to handle the scoring.

[NGC 54]

Thank you for the clarification. Is there any "general/global rule" on why something is "part" of a feature or not, or is just decided depending on the specific case? I really can't understand what differentiates the german castle bonus from the watchtower bonus, so that they have different way to handle the scoring.

There are some hints in the rules...

• First, the rules for The Watchtowers say that you score the watchtower(s) first, then the feature. There is no such mention in the rules of Castles in Germany.
  When a completed road or a city contains a tile which features a watchtower, and there is a meeple on the feature (city, road) on that tile, the watchtower is scored first. The completed road or city is scored afterwards. (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Watchtowers#3._Scoring_a_feature)
  AND
  If a road or a city which ends on the Castle tile is completed, players get bonus points. Each player who gets points gets 3 bonus points for each castle which is involved. (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Castles_in_Germany#Scoring_roads_and_cities_around_a_castle)
  
• Second, the rules for The Watchtowers say Your city has been completed. First you score 8 points (4 meeples x 2 points) with the watchtower. Then you get 6 points for the city. (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Watchtowers#3._Scoring_a_feature), while the rules of Castles in Germany say You get 6 points for your road (3 points for the road and 3 points for the castle) (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Castles_in_Germany#Scoring_roads_and_cities_around_a_castle) – from here you can deduce that the watchtower bonus is scored separately from the feature, while the German castle bonus is part of the feature scoring.
• Third, you do not need to have the majority on the feature in order to score the watchtower bonus (see https://wikicarpedia.com/car/The_Watchtowers#cite_note-1) – unlike for the German castle bonus, where only the player(s) with the majority on the feature score the German castle bonus.
• Fourth, your meeple has to be on the tile with the watchtower in order to score the bonus from that watchtower – unlike for the German castle bonus, where the only condition to score the German castle bonus is to have the majority of the feature being scored, so you do not have to have a meeple placed on the German castle tile in order to score the German castle bonus.
• Fifth, it is officially confirmed that the German castle bonus is part of the feature scoring: These bonus points are added to the feature score after modifications from inns or cathedrals. (https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Castles_in_Germany#cite_note-3).

You just need to feel like "philosophizing".