Carcassonne Central

Carc Central Community => Online Games and Competitions => Leagues (including expansion leagues) => Topic started by: TheSteveAllen on October 31, 2018, 12:24:04 PM

Title: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on October 31, 2018, 12:24:04 PM
This post is to give a place for the testers of the Divisional league system to post scores, screenshots etc. and for me to post the trial table updates.

Rich_the_Fish, Rosco, Chooselife, Danisthirty, Halfling ... please post your results to this topic for now, and let me know your expansion choices asap

Current expansion choices:-

Chooselife - The Tower
Danisthirty - King and Robber Baron
Halfling - Abbey and Mayor
Rich_the_Fish - The Phantom
Rosco - Traders and Builders
TheSteveAllen - The Count of Carcassonne
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on October 31, 2018, 04:45:12 PM
The Steve and I got the ball rolling this evening...

(http://www.dan.tehill.net/DanSteve_Scores.jpg)

(http://www.dan.tehill.net/danisthirty_steveallen_20181031-223512.png)

It was weird playing online via JCZ again after such a long break. And this game wasn't exactly the warm welcome I'd hoped it might be either, what with Steve's expansion of choice: The Count of Carcassonne :o :(n)

Despite the inclusion of two expansions, it wasn't a particularly long game as there were only five additional tiles which were the ones provided by my expansion of choice: King & Robber Baron! 8) :(y) It was tricky at first trying to decide what was worth doing and whether the classic tricks of the base game were as valuable here considering the combination of expansions. So I resorted to my default setting and played as though I was playing any other game, but soon regretted this when Steve started completing my features for me and started getting his meeples into the City of Carcassonne. This was something I struggled to emulate as Steve continued to keep his meeples to himself and rarely provided me any opportunity to close anything of his for him.

I killed off a huge, sprawling city of Steve's quite early in the game but I don't think this hurt him too much as it was still pretty valuable at the end of the game despite being incomplete, and he added to it periodically throughout the game whenever he had a large city tile that he couldn't find a use for elsewhere. He returned the favour though, by trapping two of my meeples in a small city that was only worth 7 points at the end of the game. I wouldn't normally have taken such a risk, but with one of his meeples sitting poised in the City section of the City of Carcassonne waiting to be deployed, I didn't want to work hard on my city only for him to share the points with me upon completion. He saw this coming from a mile away and so took advantage of my mistake, then helped himself to an equal share of my points from another city instead. However, because I'd closed the city this time I did at least win the King tile for my trouble which ended up being worth a decent handful of points at the end of the game.

Elsewhere in the game, Steve was the first to claim the main farm and even missed a good opportunity to take the Robber Baron tile and get another meeple into the C of C by closing off a road of mine, when he used his turn to get a second farmer onto his unchallenged farm instead. This was surprising, as with both the King and Robber Baron tiles I knew I was in for a decent end-game boost even without a share in the main farm.

I tried to play somewhat more conservatively towards the end of the game and after getting a meeple of my own into the C of C I was careful not to provide Steve with too many opportunities to do the same. Several small cities were completed within the final 20 or so tiles, most of which were on Steve's farm, but I'd picked up a couple of small farms of my own and felt that things might have swung in my favour by this point despite Steve's overall control of the game and far better organised strategy (or so it seemed anyway). Within the last few tiles of the game, Steve added a third farmer of his own onto the main farm and then added 1 of my farmers, knowing that I couldn't then use my farmer in the C of C to tie the farm. So instead, I placed him on another farm serving just 2 cities instead.

The final scores were something of a surprise but the 25 bonus points I won for having completed both the largest city and the longest road made all the difference despite Steve's complete dominance in terms of farmers.

So, in terms of points, I won 3 pts for winning the game. Hooray!

Steve scored more than me in terms of cities and farms so got 1 point for each of those: 2 pts
I scored more than Steve in terms of roads and cloisters so got 1 point for each of those: 2 pts

Final score: 3 + 2 = 5 - 2 to me. Thanks for the game The Steve. Really looking forward to seeing how the rest of our practice league plays out. But it already seems like we're in for a treat and I can't wait to share it with the wider community once any bugs have been ironed out! >:D

Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 01, 2018, 05:55:58 AM
There were many good things arising from my game against Dan last night which I hope will be a big attraction to this tournament and the way it is structured.

Firstly, and very importantly, is the fact that I did not feel in any way that I had 'Lost' the game and was quite content to see that I managed to get 2 league points from the fixture. I appreciate that my opponent got more points than myself, but this was largely down to the simple fact that he coped better with 'The Count of Carcassonne' (my adopted expansion) than I did with the King and Robber Baron (his adopted expansion), and was therefore fully deserved.

Dan not only won the game, but also managed to get more league points which, in this competition, is not always the case for a win. Which brings me to:-

Secondly, if I had managed to accumulate 8 more road points and 10 more cloister points, bring the scores to 139 - 136 to Dan, then I would have accumulated 4 league points for winning roads, cities, cloisters and farms against only 3 points to Dan for winning the game. This is a very important factor in the tournament and needs to be a strategical consideration in your games. This will possibly come to the fore if anyone uses the goldmines expansion, where it is highly possible to win a game with the lowest points score for 'the main four' features.

As we now appear to be up and running, I would ask my testing team to try and organise matches as soon as possible to give me time to iron out any problems that we find before the 'real' tournament gets under way. Please post results and screenshots on this thread.

All feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 01, 2018, 07:27:24 AM
As we now appear to be up and running, I would ask my testing team to try and organise matches as soon as possible to give me time to iron out any problems that we find before the 'real' tournament gets under way. Please post results and screenshots on this thread.

Rosco? Halfling? Chooselife? Rich_The_Fish? When works for you guys?
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Decar on November 01, 2018, 09:37:10 AM
Secondly, if I had managed to accumulate 8 more road points and 10 more cloister points, bring the scores to 139 - 136 to Dan, then I would have accumulated 4 league points for winning roads, cities, cloisters and farms against only 3 points to Dan for winning the game. This is a very important factor in the tournament and needs to be a strategical consideration in your games. This will possibly come to the fore if anyone uses the goldmines expansion, where it is highly possible to win a game with the lowest points score for 'the main four' features.

Bare in mind: you need 2 cloisters to score 10 more cloister points, if you got them, Dan wouldn't have score 18 points for completing 2 cloisters.
His score would have dropped to 118; you'd have won the game and got the 2 league points and scored the cloister points.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 01, 2018, 09:43:17 AM
You are forgetting the power of the Count of Carcassonne. I didn't actually get any cloisters. I simply glommed on to one of Dan's via the city of Carcassonne. This means that I could have done the same again and also jumped onto empty cloisters as they were finished. I never got such a chance unfortunately.  :(
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 01, 2018, 09:45:11 AM
I didn't actually get any cloisters. I simply glommed on to one of Dan's via the city of Carcassonne.

My monk was very upset about you forcing him to share his cloister with you...
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 01, 2018, 04:05:53 PM
Halfling and Dan, in a tree, P L A Y I N G C A R C A S S O N N E. Here's how it went:

(http://www.dan.tehill.net/DanHalfling_Scores.jpg)

(http://www.dan.tehill.net/Halfling_danisthirty_20181101-221401.png)

I always forget how much there is to Abbey & Mayor until about 2 seconds before the game begins when I'm suddenly reminded of Mayors and Wagons and Abbeys! None of these elements really complimented the King & Robber Baron very much, but there was an interesting mix of tiles which made for an interesting game.

As you can see, the final scores were 182 - 142 in my favour so that's 3 league points.

In terms of individual elements I won on cities, cloisters and farms for an addition 3 points. Halfling scored more on roads than I did though, and so takes 1 point for that. Overall then, the league point scores were 6 - 1 to me.

Thanks for the game Halfling!
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 01, 2018, 04:31:02 PM
I cannot play until after the weekend as I am work late shifts

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 02, 2018, 02:29:42 AM
Thanks for the game Dan. Losing the game is bad enough, losing the other factors rubs salt. Since the scoring of individual mechanics already contributes to the win/loss, won't these bonus points simply extend winning margins?
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 02, 2018, 02:32:32 AM
That is a good point halfling- maybe have those individual score but with a max score for any player per game of 4 points.  So a win with all the features won will be 4 but a lose with all features won would also be 4.

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Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 02, 2018, 02:42:05 AM
It won't stop me participating, just an observation.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 02, 2018, 02:48:49 AM
Thanks for the comments Ross and Richard. I am taking note of your ideas and thinking about what you are saying. It might be an idea to try playing for league points, rather than to win the game. I don't know how much difference this will make, so I will be trying it out. I'm sure that there will be hot discussion in the Slack chat about this before the final version is agreed. Please join us as and when you get time.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 02, 2018, 04:00:56 AM
I can't access Slack via work laptop, so I'll be occasional evening only.

If I could gain bonus points per trapped meeple I would be in division one
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 02, 2018, 05:44:00 AM
Having discussed with my learned friends at some length, we have all agreed that the points system would be better to give one point only for the win, instead of the three that I originally suggested. You can see what difference this makes on the attached tables.

We are now considering 'Tie breakers', and hope that you will all get involved with this as the 'Test league' develops more.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 02, 2018, 07:07:04 AM
Can 2 people choose the same expansion, or is participation limited to the number of Jcz expansions?

Any news on more expansions being added, circus is great to play for instance. Also should not be difficult to add labyrinth, spiel doch 2, darmstadt.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 02, 2018, 07:24:08 AM
No, two people can't choose the same expansion in the same division but, obviously, we can have the same expansion in two or more divisions.

As far as I know, Farin has been working on Hills and Sheep, but I have heard nothing from him recently.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 02, 2018, 08:37:39 AM
That will be a good addition, I enjoy playing with Hills and Sheep.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 02, 2018, 08:42:41 AM
I wouldn't let Decar know that!  >:D
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 02, 2018, 10:14:33 AM
Personally I love the sheep and shepherd mechanic but I find the hills tiresome.  I think it wastes another tile and it can get a bit silly. 

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Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 02, 2018, 10:17:09 AM
I've never actually played it. But I've read enough about it to know that I'm not in a hurry to change that.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Chooselife on November 05, 2018, 02:53:00 AM
Why did I choose The Tower?! Can't really remember doing that.  O0
I should be able to play this week during working hours including lunch time. Just reach me through Slack.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Decar on November 05, 2018, 02:54:18 AM
Why did I choose The Tower?! Can't really remember doing that.  O0
I should be able to play this week during working hours including lunch time. Just reach me through Slack.


Sounds like you're trapped before you've even begun :D
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 05, 2018, 02:55:29 AM
Why did I choose The Tower?! Can't really remember doing that.  O0
I should be able to play this week during working hours including lunch time. Just reach me through Slack.

Pedro, it is not too late to change if you want to. Please let me know.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Chooselife on November 05, 2018, 03:27:00 AM
Why did I choose The Tower?! Can't really remember doing that.  O0
I should be able to play this week during working hours including lunch time. Just reach me through Slack.

Pedro, it is not too late to change if you want to. Please let me know.


Unless I can play with the Catapult  >:D >:D The Tower would be my first choice anyway.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 05, 2018, 01:28:36 PM
Anyone available for a game

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Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 06, 2018, 04:33:19 AM
Anyone available for a game

Can you do this evening?
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 06, 2018, 07:25:27 AM
Probably but it will be after 9.30

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Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 06, 2018, 07:35:39 AM
Probably but it will be after 9.30

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

Works for me. I'll be on Slack so just give me a shout there when you're ready and we'll play...

Sent from Rosco's SM-A320FL using Tapatalk without his permission! :o
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 06, 2018, 07:55:03 AM
So that is using hakatalk then, surely?
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 06, 2018, 03:55:02 PM
(http://www.dan.tehill.net/DanRoss_Scores.jpg)

(http://www.dan.tehill.net/Rosco_danisthirty_20181106-232751.png)

Rosco and I played our game this evening. I think Ross handled King & Robber Baron better than I handled Traders & Builders but the long and the short of it seemed to be that I got most of the tiles Ross needed as well as a few that came in pretty handy for myself. I focused quite intently on creating opportunities to trap Rosco whenever I could, and in most cases this seemed to be quite effective, especially when it came to blocking his farmers. The wide range of uncommon tiles in T & B meant there was always a chance he could escape, and in several cases he did. But as I said, lady luck was smiling on me this time (unlike during my game with Chooselife earlier today which was a disaster right up until the game crashed as I was placing the final tile) and I could usually find a helpful place to put most of the tiles I drew.

In terms of the newly revised scoring system I took 1pt for the win and 3 more for winning most points for roads, cloisters and farms. Interestingly we drew on cities which means we talk 0.5pts each for this, putting the final scores at 4.5 / 0.5 to me.

Thanks for the game Rosco, and for being such a good sport putting up with the tiles I arranged for you to have you drew... ;) :(y)
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 07, 2018, 02:53:08 AM
The 'testing league' is starting to look embarrassingly in favour of Dan at the moment. Can we do something to address this dire situation?  >:D
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 07, 2018, 03:15:22 AM
Anyone able to play today/tonight?

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 07, 2018, 04:32:42 AM
Anyone able to play today/tonight?

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

I will see if I can make a game tonight. Will be in touch.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 07, 2018, 03:02:17 PM
That was the most frustrating game i have ever had.  From word go we were very evenly matched and it was constantly relatively even scores wise.  Steve trapped a few of my meeples and steve seemed to get every tile i needed.  however i kept holding on right to the end.  Steve had built up a huge city with his builder and i had 2 meeples ready to glom on but i just could seem to get the right tiles for either of them, until i got one of them and i was sharing.  Then 3 tiles from the end steve got the other one and i believe his tactic was to let me complete the city and get a 2nd meeple in from his meeple on the city.  It didnt work quite right as it wasnt enough for steve to clinch it. I then won the game albeit by just a few points.   final game league score was 3 - 2 to me.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 07, 2018, 04:06:23 PM
Well played Rosco. This was always going to be a tight game, and you deserved the win. Interestingly, I am still above you in the league having lost both games, and you having won one of your two. This is what was intended, as we are trying to encourage ‘close’ enjoyable matches. At least I appear to have got something right. Thanks again for an excellent evening, despite losing our first attempt on the public server. This needs to be fixed and I will be seeking advice from Farin tomorrow.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 08, 2018, 01:34:26 AM
Attached is the latest version of the league table. It is showing some interesting results even at this early stage.

I am looking forward to seeing a few more games added in the very near future. Testers - please let other players know when you are available. I should be available to play again tonight.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 08, 2018, 07:45:14 AM
Steve any chance you can change the images from png to jpg.  As I can't zoom in to read it.

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Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 08, 2018, 07:57:07 AM
Steve any chance you can change the images from png to jpg.  As I can't zoom in to read it.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

Added jpg to the above.  :(y)
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 08, 2018, 08:05:14 AM
Steve any chance you can change the images from png to jpg.  As I can't zoom in to read it.

Have you tried moving your SM-A320FL closer to your face?
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 08, 2018, 12:56:08 PM
Anyone available tonight?

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 09, 2018, 01:10:20 PM
Anyone available tonight?

Chooselife is if you're free? Or Halfling? He's in Slack at the moment...
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 09, 2018, 01:24:10 PM
(http://www.dan.tehill.net/DanPedro_Scores.jpg)

(http://www.dan.tehill.net/Chooselife_danisthirty_20181109-205100.png)

A great game between Chooselife and I, which concluded today after a 2 or 3 day gap when the first half of the game bombed out. Fortunately I'd saved it.

Chooselife was quick to use his tower blocks to capture my meeples, which were sometimes placed purely to encourage him to do this! I did have to buy a few (3) of them back when I needed them which swung things 18pts in Pedro's favour but it was worth it for the feeling of security this gave me towards the end of the game when he'd run out of tower blocks!

In terms of score I was about 30 - 35 points behind when we started the second half of the game but I did have the main farm and was close to closing a tidy city for a decent handful of points. The fact that Pedro couldn't remove me from the farm with towers worked out well, but he couldn't easily attack it either without me removing him. So I was able to keep the farm despite Pedro having almost all of his meeples in hand to attack it with!

King & Robber Baron also worked in my favour. I won the King tile much earlier in the game but lost out on the Robber Baron tile until much later. An earlier attempt to close a long road was thwarted by the fact that I simply couldn't draw the tile I needed to do so. Several of them were left in the deck, but Pedro kept drawing them and then refused to close my road! I guessed this was because he didn't want to give me the points and a meeple back, even though it might have been worth it for the RB bonus. In the end I gave up on that road and wasted a tower block to get my meeple back from it, then completed another road elsewhere to win the RB bonus.

In terms of score I get 1pt for the win + 2 more for winning on cities (just) and farm points. Pedro gets 1pt for winning most on roads (by a long way). And we both get 0.5pts because neither of us scored anything from cloisters (this is despite almost all of the first 4 or 5 tiles being cloisters, but all the monks got kidnapped so no points were scored from them). If the game had all been played in one go it might have been more obvious that there was an easy point to be won by simply claiming a cloister, but because of the crash and then the restart I don't think this was in either of our heads. It certainly wasn't in mine anyway.

Dan: 3.5 / Pedro: 1.5

Overall though, great game! Thanks dude! :) :(y)
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Chooselife on November 09, 2018, 03:12:28 PM
Lucky draw made the difference both for the bigger cities and a couple of towers.
(https://i.imgur.com/7prgONyl.jpg)
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 09, 2018, 03:36:00 PM
A 3-2 win to chooselife. I am really starting to appreciate this type of scoring. I hope that the game was actually as close as the score shows.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 09, 2018, 04:10:28 PM
A late night battle between The Tower and Abbey & Mayor.  No doubt someone can work out the final 'league' score!!

I got the majority of the tower tiles and placed as few meeples as possible.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 09, 2018, 04:14:35 PM
The score is 4-1 to halfling, which is a bit of a surprise, considering that the match score was very tight. Hope that it was enjoyable?
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 09, 2018, 11:28:52 PM
That is harsh on Pedro.  Ok at game end I captured 5 standard meeples and the Mayor but his skill ensured that he kept in touch and I only felt safe once I had placed a farmer in 'Pedro's' field.

I like the Tower having finished well in The Tower League a couple of years back.  Thus I was more confident than usual going into the game.  The scores were level or thereabouts throughout but I always had wood to spare.

It was weird not playing Yellow - I had to reflect this in my name so I didn't look at the wrong colour during the game!
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 10, 2018, 01:29:45 PM
If the rules of the Count have been followed to allow JCZ to rob me of victory in this game I am amazed.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 10, 2018, 01:38:42 PM
This was version 2 of this match. Version 1 is still floating around in the depths of Farin's server.

Quite ironically and possibly quite importantly, I think that I was well in the lead in the first version of the game, only needing a RRFF tile to seal my 'big farm' away from Halfling's greedy clutches. This being said, I had waited nearly the whole game for one of these tiles and I still had not received a single one.

Moving on from a game that I should have won, but didn't, we went to a game that I should have lost, but didn't.

This match was the biggest tussle that I have had as far as I can remember. Halfling managed to glom on farmers to 'his' big farm an almost infinite amount of times and then continued to do so after I had managed to work hard, and for once, successfully, to join 'my' big farm to his to share the barn points.

I kept robbing his cities by wicked use of the City of Carcassonne, and just when they thought it was all over, Halfling managed to block my mayor in the city using the count to stop me from deploying him.

Then something strange happened. I used my abbey, put down a monk with only a few tiles to go and, for some reason, I was deemed to have scored points for him and not myself. This meant that I could free my mayor and rob him of the big incomplete city at the end.

I don't know if this was a bug, or if we both missed something, but if it was a bug, then it was one that needs to be sorted out. I will see if I can re-create this at a later date. I think that it will only appear in the unlikely event that we have another Count of Carcassonne v Abbey and Mayor, so it is not so significant. It is certainly not as urgent as the crashing public server. This is something that we have to get around before the season starts.

Well played Richard. I always seem to have a controversial game against you, but they are always fun. At least this has truly tested JCZ prior to the season starting for real.

I make the final score an undeserved 4 - 1 to me.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 10, 2018, 01:53:38 PM
After the abbey + meeple was played in a space that was 8/9ths complete; nothing would have been scored.....but I played my road meeple from the city on a 3 point road as I was trying to work out why JCZ thought I could deploy a follower. There was no one else on that road so I wasn't overmanning or sharing any points they were all mine.  The taking of these 3 points initiated an option for Steve to place another meeple in the city, free his Mayor and move the count to my meeple in the market/fields area.

A thousand expletives were issued.  I didn't get to share a glommed meeple.  Steve got to deploy the Mayor.  An overall swing of approx. 50 points.

If anyone joining the league is unfamiliar with the machinations of the count then I sincerely suggest you get in some practice.  The invoking of dubious dark art rituals could well also be an advantage.


 
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 10, 2018, 02:02:46 PM
After the abbey + meeple was played in a space that was 8/9ths complete; nothing would have been scored.....but I played my road meeple from the city on a 3 point road as I was trying to work out why JCZ thought I could deploy a follower. There was no one else on that road so I wasn't overmanning or sharing any points they were all mine.  The taking of these 3 points initiated an option for Steve to place another meeple in the city, free his Mayor and move the count to my meeple in the market/fields area.

A thousand expletives were issued.  I didn't get to share a glommed meeple.  Steve got to deploy the Mayor.  An overall swing of approx. 50 points.

If anyone joining the league is unfamiliar with the machinations of the count then I sincerely suggest you get in some practice.  The invoking of dubious dark art rituals could well also be an advantage.

That explains it. You had a meeple in the city of Carcassonne and a road was closed. This means that you were allowed to deploy from the city to a completed feature, which you did and scored 3 points. Unfortunately, it then saw that I had played a tile without scoring, and caused you to score. I therefore could move a meeple to the city and hence move the Count.

Conclusion, it was not a bug after all. Just sheer incompetence on your part Richard! You should have read the manual!!!  >:D
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 10, 2018, 02:06:24 PM
may the fleas of a thousand camels infest the counts armpits
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 10, 2018, 02:08:01 PM
may the fleas of a thousand camels infest the counts armpits

Funny that you should know about that.....

.... and you have the cheek to talk about 'Dark Arts'.  ;D
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 12, 2018, 02:33:01 AM
Test league update with all the matches played over the weekend. I am looking for better names for the individual 'prize' categories for the most road points etc.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 12, 2018, 03:08:04 AM
Steve - I can't see the png image.

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Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 12, 2018, 03:15:20 AM
Steve - I can't see the png image.

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

The version above is incorrect. I had a few dodgy links on my spreadsheet. I believe this to be the correct version, but I would appreciate it if you could check it for me.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 12, 2018, 03:18:13 AM
Wow - I am not doing very well at all here! Oh well - I will just enjoy myself

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Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 12, 2018, 03:20:39 AM
Wow - I am not doing very well at all here! Oh well - I will just enjoy myself

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At least you beat the guy in 2nd place!!
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 12, 2018, 03:30:42 AM
Wow - I am not doing very well at all here! Oh well - I will just enjoy myself

Enjoying yourself is what it's all about!
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 12, 2018, 08:54:54 AM
Third time lucky!! I knew that this points system would be tough.

I believe that this one is correct now, as the points add up horizontally as well as vertically.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 12, 2018, 03:18:00 PM
I managed to lose this match with my very last tile. Instead of paying the tower ransom, I stupidly kept on to my points without claiming the last 3 point road that would have won me the game 3-2 instead of losing it by 3-2, as I did. This has certainly been a good lesson in that the idea is to win league points, and not necessarily win the game. The extra 3 points for the road would have made a 6 point difference to the score, but would have given me the extra 3 points to win the road battle 23-21, instead of losing it by 21-20.

The game itself was great fun. Pedro seems to have mastered the art of keeping out of the way of towers. Either that, or he was more lucky that a Portuguese man deserves.

Every time I thought that I was in with a shout of winning the main farm, he managed to pull out the appropriate tower piece to take my farmer prisoner. This happened a few times and I assumed that he would eventually run out of tower pieces, which was not the case.

He somehow managed to totally eliminate the Count of Carcassonne, except for 1 instance that allowed me to share an 8 point city.

Thanks for the game Pedro. A well deserved win, but I really should have won that road battle. It will not happen again.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 12, 2018, 03:45:33 PM
The game itself was great fun. Pedro seems to have mastered the art of keeping out of the way of towers. Either that, or he was more lucky that a Portuguese man deserves.

This all sounds strangely familiar!

Well done to both players on what sounds like a fun and exciting clash!
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 12, 2018, 04:00:51 PM
The game itself was great fun. Pedro seems to have mastered the art of keeping out of the way of towers. Either that, or he was more lucky that a Portuguese man deserves.

This all sounds strangely familiar!

Well done to both players on what sounds like a fun and exciting clash!

Every game that I have played in this league has been so interesting and different to any other game of Carcassonne that I have played before. The major difference is that the 1 point for a win makes the importance of winning each feature so important in comparison to winning the game. I am a bit upset, for the sake of the testing, that I did not win the road battle tonight. I would have been very good to illustrate that you can lose the game, and still win the match (if that makes any sense whatsoever).

I really hope that newcomers will give this version of the game a try out.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 13, 2018, 01:26:01 AM
Here is the updated league table including last night's match.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rich_The_Fish on November 13, 2018, 03:13:31 PM
Thanks for the great game Chooselife. I love (and hate) Towers, it's so brutal! A very close fought game
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 13, 2018, 03:51:13 PM
(http://www.dan.tehill.net/DanRich_Scores.jpg)

(http://www.dan.tehill.net/RichTheFish_Dan_20181113-230026.png)

My game with Rich ^

I think it's a bit late to do much of an analysis on this one, and I still need to put the bins out before I can go to bed. But it was a great game that could have gone either way for match winning point.

My main tactic seemed to revolve around trapping Rich's meeples. This worked to some extent but I struggled to trap any of his monks, which combined with the number of cloisters he drew meant I couldn't compete with him here. 35 - 0 to Rich got him a well-deserved point for cloisters.

I'm surprised that I won most points for cities as it seemed to me that Rich focused more on cities than I did. And especially since he had several meeples trapped in cities it just looked as though he had most points coming to him. The majority of my city points came from small cities that I closed in an attempt to grow my farm, but I also managed a somewhat larger city (7 tiles - winning me the King token) thanks to some favourable tile draws towards the middle of the game. A point for me.

I was equally surprised that Rich outscored me on roads as I was looking to complete as many of these as possible after closing the longest road and taking the Robber Baron token for my efforts. He must have snuck a few long roads when I was looking the other way though, so it was a crafty point for Rich in this respect.

We never really fought over farms which was a little surprising. I hadn't intended to end up with 2 farmers on the main farm but Rich merged the second one on during one of his crazed-cloister completing quests with perhaps about 20 tiles to go. He claimed a couple of other farms elsewhere though, and I took one as well which gave me the edge in farm points. So in terms of features we were quite even with both of us winning the majority in 2 of the 4 key areas.

Owing largely to Rich's magnificent 35 - 0 thrashing in terms of cloisters I spent the second half of the game trailing as I watched Rich begin to slip off into the distance. I wasn't sure what I'd done wrong; trap meeples? Check. Win main farm? Check. What made the ultimate difference for me was, as always, the inclusion of King & Robber Baron. With my 7-tile city and a 5-tile road (I think) I won both of these bonuses and wouldn't have been able to win the game without both of them. This meant the final point, for winning the match, went to me, and the final score was 3 - 2 in my favour. It wouldn't have taken much for things to have been very different for either of us, but that's just Carcassonne.

Thanks for the game Rich! :) :(y) Now to do the bins...
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 13, 2018, 04:01:56 PM
A +1 merit from me for a perfect description of how this league works. It is all about winning the separate parts, not the game itself. Looks like an interesting night has been had by all involved.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 14, 2018, 01:43:39 AM
League table update. Lots of shuffling for final positions has started now.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 14, 2018, 02:44:05 AM
A +1 merit from me for a perfect description of how this league works.

Thanks the Steve. :(y)

And thanks for all your efforts in bringing your tournament ideas to the wider community!
Title: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Jéré on November 15, 2018, 12:51:59 AM
Have we seen yet a situation where the winner of the game gets less league points than the loser? I can see that happening in a very tight game where for instance the loser of the game would win the roads, cities and cloisters by a very narrow margin and the winner would get the main field worth a lot. Results 2-3 for the winner of the game. Not saying its bad, just interesting and thats the purpose of this new scoring system I guess.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 15, 2018, 01:14:46 AM
Have we seen yet a situation where the winner of the game gets less league points than the loser? I can see that happening in a very tight game where for instance the loser of the game would win the roads, cities and cloisters by a very narrow margin and the winner would get the main field worth a lot. Results 2-3 for the winner of the game. Not saying its bad, just interesting and thats the purpose of this new scoring system I guess.

It nearly happened in my test game against Chooselife a few nights ago where, if I had managed to get an extra 2 points on a road, I would have won the match 3-2, despite losing the game. I was rather frustrated that I did not manage this, as I was trying to illustrate your exact point.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Rosco on November 15, 2018, 07:04:07 AM
I can play tonight - anyone available?

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Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 16, 2018, 02:27:16 PM
Thanks for the game RTF and thanks for hosting TSA
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: Halfling on November 16, 2018, 03:25:54 PM
Thanks for the game Rosco, and thanks for hosting Steve.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 16, 2018, 03:43:09 PM
Thanks to Halfling, Rich_the_fish and Rosco for an excellent evening of Carcassonne entertainment. I was so pleased to see that Rosco, in particular, noticed that he was not going to win the game, but went on to draw the match 2 1/2 to 2 1/2. This is going to be a very interesting tournament once players adopt the ‘winner doesn’t take it all’ mentality. This is going to be fun for everyone.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: TheSteveAllen on November 19, 2018, 01:41:10 AM
The test league is very nearly complete and everything, except top spot, is still all up for grabs.
Title: Re: Testing out the divisional league
Post by: danisthirty on November 19, 2018, 02:02:27 AM
Thanks for the game RTF and thanks for hosting TSA

Thanks for the game Rosco, and thanks for hosting Steve.

Thanks for the game Dan, and thanks for hosting... also Dan. :(y)

The test league is very nearly complete and everything, except top spot, is still all up for grabs.

I always thought roads were my strong point. This is an outrage. I'm never playing Carcassonne again! >:(