Carc Central Community > Community Rules (Meepledrone & Friends)
Markets of Leipzig - Multiple roads completed
Meepledrone:
ML06. Let’s assume multiple roads are completed and scored on the same turn a meeple on one of them is sent to the Wainwrights quarter. Which option is the correct one?
A. Only the road with the meeple sent to Leipzig may get the Wainwrights bonus. No other road in the current turn may receive the bonus.
B. All the roads may get the Wainwrights quarter bonus. All the roads scored in the current turn may benefit from the bonus right away, but the one sending the meeple to Leipzig has to comply with the conditions for the edge case (the road would need more than one meeple on it to score and get the bonus).
C. It depends on the order the roads are scored:
a. Those roads scored before the one used to send a meeple to Leipzig will not get the bonus.
b. The road sending the meeple to Leipzig only if it complies with the edge case.
c. The roads scored after the one sending the meeple to Leipzig will get the bonus.
D. Another option. Please explain.
Example: Red completes two roads with the same tile and sends a meeple from one of them to the Wainwrights quarter. Can Red get the Wainwrights quarter bonus for the other road in the same turn?
Current understanding:
* We assume answer A for the time being. We assume all the bonuses are not active until the following turn (or round of scoring on a double turn). Only the edge case for the Wainwrights quarter bonus is the exception.
Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5635.0
Meepledrone:
Some thoughts for this question:
Decoupling feature evaluation from scoring
Carcassonne does not provide proper instructions on how to score multiple features. The scoring just happens, and all features are evaluated and scored simultaneously. The Order of Play approaches the scoring by using a single loop, but you have seen that this simplified approach does not work when there are multiple dependencies between features to be resolved during scoring (mixing castles with chained dependencies and robbers can lead to funny situations).
So one thing is (A) the order of evaluation of the features, and another one is (B) how you score those points on the scoreboard:
* (A) is conditioned by the dependencies between features (for example castle dependencies), and
* (B) is chosen by players according to accomodate certain external conditions (for example minimizing the number of points scored with robbers or the teacher in mind).
In simple case, (A) and (B) can follow the same order but, in complex cases, (A) and (B) may differ. In this case you evaluate the points beforehand and then you decide how to score them.
So (B) is conditioned by certain expansions, but (A) should be unaware of those external conditions, so the result should be always the same and undisputable.
This would guarantee a predictable scoring process no matter how may expansions imposing their restrictions could be involved.
What about Markets of Leipzig?
This said, I would say that sending a meeple to the Wainwrights quarter in Leipzig should only affect the roads sending the meeple. Other roads evaluated in (A) before of after (by chance or due to dependencies) should not alter the result.
This is an edge case that shouldn't provoke race conditions affecting other features due to conficts players could not control, such as dependencies during evaluation.
Any thoughts?
OneEyedOwl:
I think that all features should be scored at the same time, because they all are completed at the same time.
Bumsakalaka:
It need consistency with other expansions. We know that it's possible to set order of scoring features (Castle). We know that it's decision, when one road has two meeples of same player and one is send to Wainwrights quarter in Leipzig then second can score that road and het Wainwrights quarter bonus.
As there is no such as think in rules like in Watchtowers expansion, where is declarative said that "Watchtower bonus" is scored before watchtower, then we can't divide scoring sequence to two parts to send meeples to Leipzig and then scored roads get affected by it's bonus.
For consistency I prefer this:
1. Player decides order of scoring features
2. He is able to send meeple to Wainwrights quarter in Leipzig from any road in this order.
3. Each road scored but after sent meeple to Wainwrights quarter in Leipzig will get bonus.
I suppose this meets consistency of other rules in Carcassonne.
Bumsakalaka:
And comment to other options in Poll
A. None in this turn (the Wainwrights quarter bonus is received this turn as an edge case) - this meet other rules but not meet rule of two meeples on same road, one sent to Wainwrights quarter and second scoring road receiving also Wainwrights quarter bonus.
B. All other roads in this turn (the Wainwrights quarter bonus is received immediately this turn) - this is con consistent with rules. Because if meeple is not in Wainwrights quarter, player cannot receive bonus (even backward) (Hmm but this can be solutions for Apps).
So solution for Apps can be: Check if there is Road scored and player has not meeple in Wainwrights quarter, give possibility to select meeple sent to Wainwrights quarter and then score other roads - this meet rule, of selected order of scoring features but app get possibility only to choose first - which get bonus. Other situation is that by placing of road can score also opposite player and he has meeple in Wainwrights quarter but after some meeple "Castling" in order of scoring he will loose that majority... but this is to other thread.
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