Clarification of rules (Ghosts, Castles & Cemeteries) - with HiG - 27 09 2022

[Meepledrone]

I sent a few questions about Exp. 11 - Ghosts, Castles & Cemeteries to Johannes Natterer (HiG) and we got the following clarifications.

Following Kettlefish's tradition...

Question in BLUE

Answer in GREEN

Still open in RED

My own comments in MAROON

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6092.0

[Meepledrone]

[Q1] Is the feature in the middle of the 2x2 starting tile a proper castle or just some ruins that serve as decoration to separate fields and end roads?

[A1]  It’s just a decoration.

[Meepledrone]

[Q2] Let's assume a city with 2 red meeples and 1 black meeple which has a ghost added to it. The red player has the majority in this case. The city has 5 tiles and 1 coat of arms (see image below):
1) Does the black player score 0 points, or -2 points due to the ghost added to it?
2) Does the red player score 12 points, or 10 points for the city due to the ghost in the city?

[A2] Here you are the answers:
1) You only score if you have a majority. Therefore black does get 0 points.
2) You only get -2 points, if the ghost is with your meeple. Therefore red receives 12 points.

The value of a feature is not affected by the ghosts assigned to the meeples placed on it. Ghosts affect those players with the majority, and therefore scoring for the feature. The rest of the players on the feature not scoring for it will not be penalized by any ghosts added to their meeples.

[Meepledrone]

[Q3] If the 2x2 starting tile occupies two spaces adjacent to a completed monastery, how many points does the monk on the monastery score?  (See image below)
A) 9 points because the starting tile is counted as 2 occupied squares adjacent to the monastery?
B) 8 points because the starting tile is counted as 1 tile adjacent to the monastery?

[A3] The answer is A. The starting tile is considered as 4 normal tiles [in C2 and C3].

This answer is consisten with the clarifications included in the 20th Anniversary rules for the double-sized river source tile and also with the clarifications provided for double-sized tiles in 01/2021.

A monastery completed surrounded by tiles scores 1 point for the space occupied by the monastery and 1 point for each of the 8 adjacent occupied spaces.

Note for C1: The starting tile would count as one large tile. In this case, the answer would be B, the monastery is surrounded by 7 tiles inclusing the 2x2 starting tile, and therefore, it is worth 8 points.

[Meepledrone]

[Q4] If the 2x2 starting tile occupies one of the squares adjacent to a completed castle as shown in the image below, how many points does the red player score?
A) 4 points because the there is no mist on the square adjacent to the castle (the 2x2 starting tile is not considered as a whole)?
B) 6 points because the castle considers all the mist banks on the 2x2 starting tile?

[A4] The answer is A. The starting tile is considered as 4 normal tiles [in C2 and C3].

Since the 2x2 starting tile is considered as 4 normal tiles for castles as well, each of these individual tiles will be analyzed separatery to determine whether each tile has mist banks.
In the example below, the section of the staring tile adjacent to the castle has no mist, so the castle is worth 4 points. Any mist banks on other quarters of the starting tile will not be considered by the castle in this case.

Note: The same approach should apply to the scoring of some features counting neighboring features:
* Watchtowers scoring for roads or cities (The Watchtowers)
* The Hermit Monastery and the Pilgrimage Route scoring tiles (The Land Surveyors)

Note for C1: The starting tile would count as one large tile. In this case, the answer would be B, that is, 6 points as the 2x2 tile includes 2 banks of mist.

[OneEyedOwl]

For Q3 and Q4, shouldn't that be obvious now that "tile" means occupied space in C2 and C3?

[Meepledrone]

HiG does not consider C1 in their minds... Let's add a note about this.

[Paloi Sciurala]

What would happen if somebody wore to ask if it is possible to place a ghost in the City of Carcassonne, or acrobat and ghost related questions (like Do the minus points caused by ghosts also apply to pyramid scoring? or If 3 ghosts are assigned to a certain acrobat, what happens with the rest of the acrobats from that pyramid?).

[Bumsakalaka]

That it is up to you. Usual answer is that there will be none clarifications for expansion - expansion interaction.
We saw it multiple tiles. So on Discord HiG server.

Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku

[aenima]

So, the Dragon counts the 2x2 tile like it is 4 different tiles!

[aenima]

the same is true for the flying machines and the tower, no?

[Meepledrone]

For computing flying machine trajectories, tower ranges and German monastery scoring, they are considered as 4 individual tiles. For placing meeples, capturing meeples with a tower, or eating meeples with the dragon, whe should consider the tile whole tile, the same as with German castles.

This is one of the dualities/ambiguities I wanted to get clarified with HiG when dealing with:
* Watchtowers scoring for roads/cities (consider a square space) ^[1]
* Watchtowers scoring for meeples (consider whole tiles) ^[2]
* The big top scoring for meeples (consider whole tiles) ^[2]
* The Pilgrimage route scoring tile bonus scoring for roads (considers a squares space) ^[1]
* The Hermit Monastery scoring tiles penalty scoring for cities (considers a square space) ^[1]
* Castles scoring for features in their fief (consider a square space) ^[3]

[1] As clarified for Exp. 11 & Halflings
[2] As clarified for Exp. 3 & 4
[3] Fiefs in C2 should consider square spaces to be consistent with the scoring of monasteries, Exp. 11 & Halflings.

Note that a whole tile can be:
* A square tile
* One single triangular tile in a square space
* Two triangular tiles in a square space
* A double-sized tile
* A 2x2 tile

Note also that a square space can be:
* A space occupied by a square tile
* A space occupied by one single triangular tile
* A space occupied by two triangular tiles
* A space occupied by one half of a double-sized tile
* A space occupied by one fourth of a 2x2 tile

Do you agree?

[aenima]

i agree

[Paloi Sciurala]

IMO, the 2x2 starting tile is in fact 4 square, normal tile. Right?

[Scott]

It would be nice to standardize on square spaces.