Author Topic: I don't practice Santorini, I ain't got no crystal ball. (Read 16116 times)

dirk2112 · « **on:** December 30, 2016, 06:29:37 PM »

Sorry for the Sublime reference, but it was either that or the old, "What's a Grecian urn? 30 drachmas an hour" joke.

Players
The game can be played with 2 or 3 players. There is a 4 player "team" option in the directions, but I am not going to bother with that EVER.

Theme
The theme is top notch. I love Greek Mythology and I have always wondered why it went away and was replaced by boring old monotheism. The components and God cards all look great. The board is elevated which is gimmicky, but it works.

How it works (Without God powers)
During your turn, you move to one of the possible 8 surrounding squares and then build a section also on one of the surrounding squares. The buildings are at most 4 stories tall (3 if you are British and call the Bottom floor the "ground" floor). You can only climb up one level, but you can go down any number of levels. The top floor is the blue dome. If a building has a blue dome, you cannot move to it. If any of your workers makes it to the top of the 3rd floor, you win. You can also win if your opponents cannot move their workers. The game is very simple until you factor in....

Gods
There are 30 God cards in the deck and I believe 25 more cards in the Golden Fleece expansion. We haven't opened the Golden Fleece, so that review will be wayyyy down the road. Anyway the 30 Gods have various powers and they greatly affect game play. Some God cards let you move more, build more, destroy buildings, push your opponents around, etc etc. Because there are so many God cards, it is unlikely that any 2 games will play out the same way. The God powers really change strategy and will keep the game fresh.

Kids
A kid who has been taught to play Chess well may be able to play this game. My son can use some more practice.

3 Player game
Our 3 player games were over in under 10 minutes. I did not like playing this with 3 players at all. I felt really at the mercy of my opponents as you can't adequately play defense against 2 other people. In our first game, my wife and child were going to win on their next turns. I basically got to play the spoiler and be the king maker. The second game (picture 1 below) I decided to avoid them and just build up to a victory while they got in each other's way. With 3 different players, your strategy against one of their God powers could aid the other player's God powers.

2 Player game
The 2 player game was much better. To keep it simple we took turns playing as Athena and Atlas. When one of Athena's workers climbs a level, her opponent's workers cannot climb on their next turn. Atlas can build a dome on any level of any building. These 2 God's powers really offset each other well and made for an enjoyable few games. The second picture below shows our best game where almost all of the building pieces were used.

Conclusion
I really enjoy this as a 2 player game. I also really enjoy the components and I think you get a lot for your money (or in this case, my wife's money

). Maybe once we get a lot more 2 player games in, we will try 3 player again and see if maybe our initial impressions are wrong. My wife had trouble getting everything back into the box, so we took a picture (#3) of how we store the game just in case anyone needs it.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3050.0

jungleboy · « **Reply #1 on:** December 31, 2016, 12:39:44 AM »

Thanks for the review!

Regarding player count, this was only ever intended to be a 2-player game. During the KS people kept requesting support for higher player counts, so the publishers grudgingly added this. But I consider it to be 2-player only, which is how the designer designed it.

stalcupojoy · « **Reply #2 on:** December 31, 2016, 06:28:38 AM »

This game is at the top of my wishlist right now. Miniature Market has the base game for $33, and the Golden Fleece for only $12, with cheap shipping to boot, which comes out to cheaper than the Kickstarter I think. For my part, with no one coming to visit me from the US for many months, I'm holding off on ordering this and will see if my excitement dies down or not. Hopefully it's still available for a reasonable price when/if I get around to ordering it.

In the meantime, I might try a homemade LEGO version of this with my wife and see how she likes it before I go drop $50 on this beautiful (but, from a gameplay standpoint, unnecessary) production. The only other abstract game I tried with her -- the much-loved Hive -- was a fail, so I'm a little wary.

I tried a 4x4 LEGO version with my almost-4-year-old daughter today and she was able to follow the rules, sans the win condition, which I didn't get into; we just took turns moving and building, using little LEGO flowers as domes to top 3-block buildings. Fun.

dirk2112 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 31, 2016, 06:34:59 AM »

Thanks Jungleboy for the info! I don't know the history of the game. The online reviews on BGG are 10 years old, so this isn't a truly new game.

Stalcupojoy,
Good idea using legos. I figured one could simulate the game using a checkerboard and poker chips. Legos seem like a better idea. My wife liked hive, but not enough to purchase it. I didn't care much for it.

Chooselife · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2017, 07:00:39 AM »

I'm still waiting my copy to arrive but ...I feel the break, feel the break, feel the break

stalcupojoy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 15, 2017, 06:17:08 PM »

My wife and I played three games last night using my a LEGOs board -- Black Team (Policeman and Dog) vs. Blue Team (Chef and Woman) -- I should have taken a picture. :p

Unfortunately, she didn't really like it and (related) lost all three games. Between Hive and Santorini, we've figured out that she's not really good at abstract and spatial games and thus doesn't enjoy them much. Not sure if I'll end up buying this after all.... I enjoyed the few games though.

(All she wants to play these days is Clank!, which overall, is fine by me. It's amazing.)

dirk2112 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 15, 2017, 06:32:32 PM »

We have played this a lot more in 2 player mode and we have enjoyed it so far. We aren't super competitive with it and we set a time limit for turns. Like Chess, there can be some analysis paralysis. We randomly draw our God cards before beginning and this has made the game more fun. We still haven't opened the Golden Fleece.

Quote from: stalcupojoy on January 15, 2017, 06:17:08 PM

Unfortunately, she didn't really like it and (related) lost all three games. Between Hive and Santorini, we've figured out that she's not really good at abstract and spatial games and thus doesn't enjoy them much. Not sure if I'll end up buying this after all.... I enjoyed the few games though.

They aren't for everyone. I am surprised my wife likes Santorini as she hates Chess, Go, Backgammon and the classic abstract games. She likes Qwirkle though, so there is that.

stalcupojoy · « **Reply #7 on:** January 20, 2017, 11:46:23 PM »

Well, good news. My wife tried our LEGO (well, off-brand DUPLO) Santorini again last night and had a totally different experience. She said something about the game "clicked" for her and... she beat me 3 games to 0. I was trying my best, but I couldn't have been happier to lose.

Maybe this game has a chance with us after all.

Here is a pic I took because I was so amused and proud of myself for trapping her little Lego Chef (see: white hat) down inside a bunch of 2-level towers. But in a humbling and ironic twist, this picture captured the very moment I handed her the game, because in trapping her Chef, I unwittingly put too much distance between my workers and the unguarded level 3 tower (the yellow block right behind our flower "dome" on the bottom right). Over the next two turns she marched her other worker (the white and black Dog) first to the adjacent level-2 yellow block, then diagonal up onto the level-3 yellow block to win the game. And there was nothing I could do -- from the point captured in this photo -- to stop her.

(Note for clarification: to hold together, our game board is two blocks thick, which is why it looks like some towers are 4 or 5 blocks high--they're not.)

Decar · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2017, 02:29:16 PM »

I bet it was the clicking noise of the lego bricks that helped!

Definitely looks like you had a good time!

dirk2112 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 06, 2017, 11:25:59 AM »

My wife and I had a lot of fun playing this last night. My wife had Pan and I had Prometheus. Prometheus can build before and after he moves assuming he doesn't climb up a level. Pan can win the game if he can jump down 2 levels. This win condition changed the entire game. I was building landing pads so my wife couldn't jump down 2 levels while at the same time trying to get myself into position to win.

jungleboy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 06, 2017, 11:42:08 AM »

Quote from: dirk2112 on March 06, 2017, 11:25:59 AM

My wife and I had a lot of fun playing this last night. My wife had Pan and I had Prometheus. Prometheus can build before and after he moves assuming he doesn't climb up a level. Pan can win the game if he can jump down 2 levels. This win condition changed the entire game. I was building landing pads so my wife couldn't jump down 2 levels while at the same time trying to get myself into position to win.

Without having played it, the Pan power just seems so powerful. It's hard to imagine how you could manage to defend against it while still trying to plan your own attacking strategy. How did you find it?

dirk2112 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 06, 2017, 12:20:03 PM »

Quote from: jungleboy on March 06, 2017, 11:42:08 AM

Without having played it, the Pan power just seems so powerful. It's hard to imagine how you could manage to defend against it while still trying to plan your own attacking strategy. How did you find it?

Jungleboy, at first glance I would agree with you. After playing with it, it doesn't seem too powerful. Think of it this way, Pan's only ability can be used once (to win). Poseidon's ability can be used every turn. Being able to put down 2 buildings per turn really hindered Pan's ability to win. Pan does change the game though and it makes the other player play defense most of the game, but he is beatable.

danisthirty · « **Reply #12 on:** March 06, 2017, 05:10:18 PM »

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party but for a while it seemed like almost every other post on BGG Facebook page was about this game which kind of put me off! I wasn't very interested at first, but having read through dirk2112's review and enjoyed stalcupojoy's Lego variant (+1 merit to both) I'm keen to give it a try.

A quick browse through eBay and it looks as though it's available mostly for between £80 and £200 but I won't be spending that kind of money. Is it already out of production due to popular demand or is there a chance I could still get hold of a copy?

Decar · « **Reply #13 on:** March 07, 2017, 12:06:40 AM »

You can always try using the towers expansion. UK prices seem to be around £45, it'll be reprinted soon - it's a money spinner.

jungleboy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 07, 2017, 12:34:39 AM »

Quote from: danisthirty on March 06, 2017, 05:10:18 PM

A quick browse through eBay and it looks as though it's available mostly for between £80 and £200 but I won't be spending that kind of money. Is it already out of production due to popular demand or is there a chance I could still get hold of a copy?

Why would you start with eBay? It's £49.98 with free shipping on Amazon UK.