Carcassonne 2 – you don't have to be a weatherman

[Gerry]

to know which way the wind blows ("Subterranean Homesick Blues"  song by Bob Dylan)

Our local main gaming store is discounting the base game to the price of the main expansions while selling the version 2 for $4 dollars more than the original game used to list for.

It is going to be unfortunate for those who get Carcassonne 2 as a holiday gift, if they try to go out and buy an expansion for themselves and find out the artwork doesn't match too well.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1322.0

[jungleboy]

HiG have said they are still unsure about how they will approach old expansions and new expansions vis-a-vis the new artwork. That being the case, I don't think your local game store guy has inside information whereby everything will be new artwork from now on. I still think we have to wait and see what the future of the new artwork will be.

[Carcking]

It may be more telling that the first tile based expansion since the release of Carc II was based on the new art. That being the one tile "Spiel 14" promo tile. It could well have been done in the old art, but was done in the new.

[Gerry]

HiG have said they are still unsure about how they will approach old expansions and new expansions vis-a-vis the new artwork. That being the case, I don't think your local game store guy has inside information whereby everything will be new artwork from now on. I still think we have to wait and see what the future of the new artwork will be.

I am sure that HiG would love to keep production running for both styles of the game but in these times of fiscal restraint with everyone (as Leonard Cohen would say) “Talking to their pockets” I would expect that it is the importers, wholesalers and retailers who will make the decision for them.

As an aside I would just like to add that I would have responded to this post 3 hours ago but I had to run out and buy some extra copies of Princess and Dragon and Abbey and Mayor.

[jungleboy]

It may be more telling that the first tile based expansion since the release of Carc II was based on the new art. That being the one tile "Spiel 14" promo tile. It could well have been done in the old art, but was done in the new.

This was just a one-tile promotion which coincided with the release of the new edition. I don't think we can really read anything into this other than as a way to promote the simultaneous release of the new edition. I don't think it has any predictive value. The halflings came out at the same time in the old artwork and they have already announced that there are old artwork mini expansions in the works.

I am sure that HiG would love to keep production running for both styles of the game but in these times of fiscal restraint with everyone (as Leonard Cohen would say) “Talking to their pockets” I would expect that it is the importers, wholesalers and retailers who will make the decision for them.

But here's the thing. Apparently 7 million copies of the old artwork (base + expansions) have been sold. I am completely guessing, but I would say this 7 million would include about 1 million copies of the base game. So a new expansion in the old artwork has 1 million potential customers who already have the base game (and perhaps some other expansions)*. By the time they release the next expansion, how many copies of the new edition will they have sold? Much, much less than that. So the best chance of selling the most copies of the next expansion will be to release it in the old artwork. So I still have faith that the old artwork is not dead yet.

* Well, Yellow has about 100 copies of the base game himself, so let's make it 999,900 potential customers!

[Gerry]

My money is still on them bringing out a complete big box with everything in the new format to get everyone to switch over.

[Carcking]

...But here's the thing. Apparently 7 million copies of the old artwork (base + expansions) have been sold. I am completely guessing, but I would say this 7 million would include about 1 million copies of the base game. So a new expansion in the old artwork has 1 million potential customers who already have the base game (and perhaps some other expansions)*. By the time they release the next expansion, how many copies of the new edition will they have sold? Much, much less than that. So the best chance of selling the most copies of the next expansion will be to release it in the old artwork. So I still have faith that the old artwork is not dead yet...

You make a good case for Carc II to not exist at all...yet, it does, in opposition to what would seem to be sound marketing logic. I would say they have a long row to hoe to get Carc II to the sales performance of the original, yet there it is.

We could always hope it's just a one-off release...

[Whaleyland]

What they really need to do is make a decision, because the future is what's fluid here. A new version of Pandemic released to the anger and cries of the fans, but Z-Man Games quickly reprinted On the Brink then added a new expansion, In the Lab, with only the new artwork features. The old version was compatible, but only with expensive and clunky retrofits that, in all reality, cost just about as much as purchasing the new versions of both from Amazon.com. Now, they have a third expansion coming out, also in the new graphics.

I think Hans im Glück is trying the same thing here, but they aren't being decisive about it. They need to decide, in fact it should have been decided before the new art was even commissioned, if this Carcassonne 2.0 is a stand-alone, mass-market version or replacement for the original game. If it's the latter, then they need to stop making new expansions using the old artwork; if it's the former, then they need to make their position clear for everyone involved, including fans, publishers, and themselves. They are bolloxing this whole thing up by their indecisiveness, and it is making the fan community, which usually supports them, unnecessarily angry, confused, divided, and, in many cases, willing to throw in the towel for the future of the game. None of that is good for publicity.

[AlbinoAsian]

I wonder if they are just biding their time.
They don't want to say they're NOT doing any more major expansions in style 1 (but that will most likely be the case).
They won't say it because they still have bunch of expansions out their for style 1 that they want to sell, but want to keep people optimistic that they're not buying into a dying breed.

Any of the expansions that are planned for style 1 are just cloisters and other minor things that with the art work done all ready to go. They'll space them out over the next couple years, when they'll finally announce a decisive move to style 2.

All of this is just speculation with a taint of cynicism.

[Safari]

We also have to take in consideration the fact that they didn't renew the contract with Doris Matthaeus, so there can't be any new classic artwork.
Still every seller has to be against the New Carcassonne since they have tons of "incompatible" expansions in stock.

[aenima]

We also have to take in consideration the fact that they didn't renew the contract with Doris Matthaeus, so there can't be any new classic artwork.
Still every seller has to be against the New Carcassonne since they have tons of "incompatible" expansions in stock.

If so then the idea of carc 2 is not a bad think...
I explain... The old carc counts by now many many expansions that makes it very longevous combining these toghether... so a new edition can give the possibility to create all new tipes of games with new big or small expansion in the future. But... This is true only if hig makes totally new expansion for carc 2, without reprint in the new style old expansion...

[Safari]

We also have to take in consideration the fact that they didn't renew the contract with Doris Matthaeus, so there can't be any new classic artwork.
Still every seller has to be against the New Carcassonne since they have tons of "incompatible" expansions in stock.

If so then the idea of carc 2 is not a bad think...
I explain... The old carc counts by now many many expansions that makes it very longevous combining these toghether... so a new edition can give the possibility to create all new tipes of games with new big or small expansion in the future. But... This is true only if hig makes totally new expansion for carc 2, without reprint in the new style old expansion...

I think that this is the most realistic scenario. And I would appreciate it being like that. Then we have our beloved Classic Carcassonne and a completely different New Carcassonne.

[Gerry]

I think that this is the most realistic scenario. And I would appreciate it being like that. Then we have our beloved Classic Carcassonne and a completely different New Carcassonne.

Except that we already have different Carcassones, Winter edition and Carcassonne New Lands

[Hounk]

To be honest, I rather think, the new stile will with time completely replace the old. There will definitely be now some waiting till the old stock of the mayor expansions sell off before reprinting them in new stile. But once this has to be done, HiG will hardly reprinting them in the old stile as well. And new expansions will most likely only come in the new stile.

Most new players will likely not notice, that there new version is visually incoherent with the expansions they buy, at least not before unpacking and will live with that afterwards. It seems to me, that HiG wants to keep the new version compatible with the old one, considering numbers, titles and content of the expansions. Otherwise they probably wouldn't have stick to the classic tiles of the old game with river and abbot as bonus but would for instance have included "Inns & Cathedrals" or at least the sixth player into the main game. But this way, they can for example reprint "Abbey and Mayor" when necessary, release a complete new expansion as #10 and still sell off old stock of expansions 1-4 & 6-9. I further do not think, that all of the mini-expansions will be re-released in the new stile. So, if you really want to play mega-games with all types of tiles, at some point there will be (even for somebody willing to buy everything a second time) no other option then mixing the stiles.

[danisthirty]

Still every seller has to be against the New Carcassonne since they have tons of "incompatible" expansions in stock.

No, the new edition is still 100% compatible with the old one because the backs of the tiles are the same remember?!