Carcassonne Jubiläumslivestream

[Challa007]

they just announces a new kind of spinn off which at the same time is an expansion: cooperative Carcassonne

they did not give many details:
- talked about the idea of helping others (I have a tile that would perfectly fit for somebody else...)
- the 2 moderators have been testing it and they said "we did...." referring to the game, so maybe team play?
- Klaus-Jürgen talked about "fog ghosts" being part of the game.... whatever he was referring to 
- it is a standalone game but at the same time it is possible to use it as expansion

I just watched the sequence again (2:44-2:48) and made a transcription in German and then translated with Deepl (and made some changes to the translation). Here you are:

German:
Klaus-Jürgen Wrede:
Seit einigen Jahren sind wir auch schon dran, ein kooperatives Carcassonne zu machen und ich finde das auch sehr interessant, weil – eigentlich – ich kenne auch viele Familien, die spielen das auch schon fast kooperativ, die sagen dann: ach guck mal hier, da passt das doch viel besser, das Plättchen, und da kann man zusammen überlegen und spielt gegen Geister, gegen Nebel in denen Geister auftauchen und muss gucken, dass man das Spiel gewinnt über 3 Nächte, und ja da sind wir dran und ich denke das wird das nächste Projekt, was dann rauskommt
Moritz Brunnhofer:
Ich habs jetzt gerade hochgehalten, weil wir es heute gespielt haben. Also es ist noch in der Testphase aber wir haben das gleich als Anlass genommen hier, das auch mal an frischen Leuten zu testen, die noch nicht so involviert sind, weil, natürlich müssen wir das als …, wenn wir ein Projekt testen, dann muss es natürlich von verschiedenen Leuten gespielt werden, und außerdem solltet ihr das zum Beispiel. Vielen Dank.
K-J hat es schon angeschnitten, kooperativ, und da gabs so eine gute Idee mit den Nebelgeistern, das ist halt etwas „spooky“ Geister die sind böse, die wollen wir loswerden und müssen quasi ein Wettrennen gewinnen punktemäßig gegen das Spiel. So und jetzt kommt vielleicht noch der Bogen dazu zu der Erweiterung: der Plan ist, dass das Ganze auch als Erweiterung funktioniert. Also dass es zwar ein eigenständiges kooperatives System ist, das für sich spielbar ist und auch so an sich steht und genutzt werden kann, aber gleichzeitig auch noch als Erweiterung funktioniert. Ja, die ersten Versuche dahingehend sind vielversprechend, also, es wird dann so gesehen nicht die Erweiterung 11 sein, die drauf steht, sondern halt eben ein Standalone, was auch eine Erweiterung ist.
Moderatorin:
ja ich glaube wir können sehr gespannt sein. Ich habs ja heute morgen schon frisch mit dir gespielt, beziehungsweise du hast zugesehen und ich kann sagen: wir können uns darauf freuen, also wirklich, es ist in alter Carcassonne Manier aber mit einem total coolen neuen Twist.
MB:
ihr hattet unverschämtes Glück:
Moderatorin:
Ja wir hatten das beste Glück. Wir waren kurz davor, zu verlieren, wirklich, ein Spielzug und dann kam das eine Plättchen, das uns das Leben gerettet hat, es war epic
MB:
Das passiert manchmal, denn weil ohne Zufall funktionierts nicht in Carcassonne, aber das gehört ja auch dazu

English
Klaus-Jürgen Wrede:
We have been working on a cooperative Carcassonne for a few years now and I find it very interesting, because - actually - I know many families who play it almost cooperatively, they say: oh look here, this tile fits much better, and you can think together and play against ghosts, against fog in which ghosts appear and you have to make sure that you win the game over three nights, and yes, we are working on that and I think that will be the next project that comes out.

Moritz Brunnhofer:
I just held it up (note from Challa007: the winter edition box where was written in big handwriting: COOP Promo)  because we played it today. So it's still in the test phase but we took this as an opportunity to test it on fresh people who are not yet involved, because ..., when we test a project, then it has to be played by different people,... Thank you very much.
K-J has already mentioned it, cooperative, and there was a good idea with the fog ghosts, that's just "spooky" ghosts, they are evil, we want to get rid of them and have to win a race against the game in terms of points. So, and here's the link to the expansion: the plan is that the whole thing also works as an expansion. That is, it is an independent cooperative system that can be played and used on its own, but at the same time also functions as an expansion. The first attempts are promising, so it won't be the expansion 11, but rather a standalone game, which is also an expansion.

Moderator: Yes, I think we can be very excited. I already played it with you this morning, or rather you watched me playing it, and I can say: we can look forward to it, really, it's in the old Carcassonne style but with a totally cool new twist.

MB: You were outrageously lucky

Presenter: yes we had the best of luck. We were about to lose, really, one turn and then the one tile came that saved our lives, it was epic

MB: That happens sometimes, because Carcassonne works with luck, but that's part of it.

[Meepledrone]

Thanks for the transcription, Challa007! This is so interesting!

If they are producing a stand along game (pseudo-spin off/new expansion) this means at least some 72 new tiles...

+1 merit from me!

PS: Could you do the same for the segment about rules clarifications? As you imagine, I would appreciate it immensely.

[Challa007]

Thanks for the transcription, Challa007! This is so interesting!

If they are producing a stand along game (pseudo-spin off/new expansion) this means at least some 72 new tiles...

+1 merit from me!

PS: Could you do the same for the segment about rules clarifications? As you imagine, I would appreciate it immensely.

haha, I thought of it even before you asked 

Here you are (2:28 bis 2:33):

German
Frage:
Es gibt Leute, die wollen anscheinend… gut, es ist ein Spiel mit vielen Erweiterungen und ich glaube, die Community möchte gerne eine gemeinsame große Anleitung haben, in der quasi alles drinsteht… und jetzt ist schon die Frage aufgekommen, ob man euch da nicht helfen könnte. Also das wollte ich nur mal so in den Raum werfen, anscheinend wollen die Leute eine Kompaktanleitung haben, wo alles drinsteht…
Moritz Brunnhofer:
Wir haben das Projekt schon intern vorliegen, allerdings gibt’s ein massives Problem daran, und zwar, es ist ein lebendes Projekt, das heißt es gibt keinen Abschluss, weil wir immer wieder neue Sachen dazupacken zu Carcassonne und das grundsätzlich jetzt auch nicht beenden wollen. Und insofern ist es quasi ein Kampf gegen die Windmühlen, wir müssten immer wieder was neu, neu, neu aufsetzen und je nachdem wie komplett man sich diese wünscht, desto schwieriger wird es. Beispiel: wenn man unter komplett versteht, dass jede Kombination mit jeder anderen geklärt ist, dann heißt es ja, dass mit jeder neuen Erweiterung und was auch immer man dazupackt, man die komplette Anleitung neu schreiben muss. Neu schreiben heißt neu setzten, d.h. man fügt unten eine neue Erweiterung ein und hat dann 3 andere Seiten, auf denen was erscheinen muss, dann verschiebt sich die komplette Datei, dann muss man alle Bilder wieder neu setzen, muss man alles wieder miteinander in Verbindung bringen, dann hat man da eine Kombination, die man irgendwie noch reinschreiben muss… und das ist ein irrer Aufwand, deshalb haben wir das derzeit noch nicht gemacht bisher. Ob es jemals eine komplett komplett komplett Anleitung mit allen Eventualitäten geben wird, das wird wahrscheinlich nie der Fall sein, weil es einfach mittlerweile so viele Kombinationen gibt, dass es quasi kaum unterzubringen ist. Außer man macht: jetzt ist das ein Block mit allen Kombinationen, die neu sind, dann das ein Block, mit allen Kombinationen, die neu sind. Es gibt die Idee in meinem Kopf, das ganze digital zu machen, aber das ist ein Projekt, das noch sehr in den Kinderschuhen steckt, und noch an anderen Stellen hakt, aber wenn, dann wäre das das Medium dafür, in dem man das gut und sinnvoll machen kann, also ein digitales Rulebook in dem wir das auch sehr einfach editieren können, das heißt es muss kein pdf erstellt werden, nichts gedruckt werden, das dann als fixes Objekt dasteht, sondern ich habe eher etwas, das ich nachschauen kann, was ich erforschen kann und dort dann auch alle Antworten finden kann und das, wie gesagt, gepflegt werden kann. Und spätestens da ist natürlich Feedback absolut erwünscht. Klar, das brauchen wir dann.
Klaus-Jürgen Wrede:
Ich glaube es gab auch ein paar Versuche aus dem Fan-Bereich, da was zu machen, aber ich glaube, die sind auch so ein bisschen im Sand verlaufen, weil da zeigt sich auch das Problem, da war ein sehr hoher Anspruch, dass man alle eventuellen Fälle, und die Erweiterung mit der und Spezialfragen auch mit einbedenkt und das ist natürlich dann nachher so ein Werk und die Zeit überholt einen dann natürlich auch, dann kommt wieder was neues raus, und, ja das ist schon schwierig.
MB:
Trotzdem super cool an sich, dass die Fans das machen, dass sie sich da die Mühe machen und ihr als Fans euch da wirklich die Arbeit macht, ein großes Dankeschön, wir bemerken das schon auch und wie gesagt, wir stehen da halt vor massiven Problemen und wenn wir das unter einem gewissen Anspruch machen wollen, dann, wie du sagst, die Zeit überholt einen, das ist eine durchaus schwierige Aufgabe. Aber, wie gesagt, wir haben noch Projekte im Hinterkopf, die Carcassonne betreffen und das könnte durchaus eins davon sein, dass wir uns in die Richtung was ausdenken.

English
Question:
There are people who seem to want... well, it's a game with a lot of expansions and I think the community would like to have an inclusive big manual that has everything in it... and now the question has already come up whether you need help there. So I just wanted to throw that out there, apparently people want to have a compact manual with everything in it...
Moritz Brunnhofer:
We already have the project internally, but there's a massive problem with it, namely, it's a living project, which means there is no end, because we keep adding new things to Carcassonne and basically don't want to end that. And in this respect, it's more or less a fight against windmills, we'd have to set up something new again and again, and depending on how complete you want it to be, the more difficult it becomes. For example, if you understand complete to mean that every combination with every other combination has been clarified, then it means that with every new expansion or whatever else you add, you have to rewrite the entire manual. Rewriting means re-setting, i.e. you add a new expansion at the bottom and then you have 3 other pages on which something has to appear, then the entire file arrangement moves, then you have to re-set all the pictures, you have to link everything together again, then you have a combination that needs to fit in somehow... and that's a crazy amount of work, which is why we haven't done it yet. Whether there will ever be a completely complete manual with all eventualities, that will probably never be the case, because there are simply so many combinations now that it is virtually impossible to include. Unless you do it like this: here is a block with all the combinations that are new, then there is a block with all the combinations that are new. There is the idea in my head to do the whole thing digitally, but that is a project that is still very much in its infancy, and is still stuck in other aspects, but if it were, then that would be the medium in which it could be done well and sensibly, i.e. a digital rulebook in which we can also edit very easily, That means that we don't have to create a pdf, we don't have to print anything that then stands there as a fixed object, but rather I have something that I can look up, that I can research and then also find all the answers there and that, as I said, can be maintained. And at that stage, of course, feedback is absolutely desirable. Of course, that's what we need at that point.
Klaus-Jürgen Wrede:
I think there were also a few attempts from the fans to do something, but I think this was also kind of abandoned, because there is also the problem that there was a very high demand that all possible combinations between expansion and special questions were taken into account, and of course in that case it is such a massive work and its difficult to catch up because everything is moving forward, then something new comes out..., and, yes, that is really difficult.
MB:
Nevertheless, it's super cool that the fans do that, that they make the effort and that you as fans really do the work, a big thank you, we also notice that and as I said, we're facing massive problems and if we want to do it under a certain standard, then, as you say, its difficult to catch up, that's quite a difficult task. But, as I said, we still have projects in mind that concern Carcassonne and this could well be one of them, that we come up with something in that direction.

-----

@Meepledrone: So now you understand why at that moment I wrote in the chat that this already exists (fanmade): the Wicarpedia.

I think you should write to them and make them aware of the wicarpedia again. Now all is fresh directly after the live session. Maybe there can be a cooperation between Carcassonne Central and HiG for this project.

[corinthiens13]

Wow, it really seems like they do not know WICA exists (abandonned fan project? Really?)

I totally agree with Challa007, Meepledrone

you should write to them and make them aware of the wicarpedia again. Now all is fresh directly after the live session. Maybe there can be a cooperation between Carcassonne Central and HiG for this project.

[corinthiens13]

If they have the idea in mind to make a "complete" rulebook (online or not) but the task seems too big for them, it's really time to knock some dors and propose them to work on WICA instead of creating something new!

[Meepledrone]

I think they had the CAR in mind... that was the only documentation available in the last fan meeting back in 2018. Actually, WICA was maybe born at that meeting.

I also dropped the URL in the chat when I saw your comment. I'll write to them. Hope this means we have the foot in the door.

+1 merit to Challa007 again for your help!

[Challa007]

I also dropped the URL in the chat when I saw your comment.

Yes I saw your reply and that you wanted to drop a link but links were automatically removed and replaced by ***, unfortunately

[carlium]

Thanks Challa007! I agree with you, we as a community should make it more noticeable to them.

Maybe we can send this information (WICA link and mission) to HiG through all their channels, for sure they can start noticing that. And maybe to KJW, apparently, he loves what the community has done with this game.

Thanks for the transcript!

[danisthirty]

Thanks Challa007! I agree with you, we as a community should make it more noticeable to them.

Maybe we can send this information (WICA link and mission) to HiG through all their channels, for sure they can start noticing that. And maybe to KJW, apparently, he loves what the community has done with this game.

It's not necessarily about whether they've noticed it so much as whether they're interested in it. As players and collectors, obviously it is something that we are keen to support and see the value in, but I think there have been opportunities for HiG to really get onboard with the WICA previously and these haven't been taken advantage of. You can lose a lot of hair getting frustrated about how great things *could* be based on what members of CarcC are already doing if HiG supported them (openly), and it's been that way for a long time with no signs of change...

The WICA is maintained by the community, on behalf of the community, and I think it's better to focus on that and how useful it is to us as players and collectors of the game.

[Meepledrone]

I wrote a while ago to Moritz... Let's see if they manifest any interest... WICA could help as repository for all the info that cannot fit in the rulebooks but they would like fans to be aware of. Am I too optimistic, Dan?

[danisthirty]

Am I too optimistic, Dan?

Yes. But being optimistic about it is no bad thing and I've always admired your positive outlook!

I was perhaps more negative than I'd intended to be in my previous post. All I really meant to convey is that the WICA is an awesome work and something that all those involved should be very proud of. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether HiG are interested in it, or in CarcC as a community, because it's already invaluable to those who rely on it and appreciate it.

[Meepledrone]

Thank you for you kind words! I think everyone involved will appreciate them.

It could be a win-win situation if he relies on WICA to provide an authorized full-fledged version of the rules beyond the restrictions imposed by paper, for example, to cover all interactions, and a team that could help them analyze the end-to-end impacts of any new rules/mechanics to keep track of it all.

He may not want to outsource this job but I'm not sure how much historical knowledge he keeps in-house at this point. It would be a symbiotic relationship... It they partner with DIZE to explain the rules to newcomers (so to speak), why not rely on WICA to provide a FAQ and more to the fan community beyond their area of interest (releasing new stuff)?

[danisthirty]

I couldn't agree more! But just because there's a good reason for something doesn't mean it will happen. And therein lies the frustration...

[Meepledrone]

I know... Maybe a Christmas miracle! 

Plan B: Having fun with our beloved Community rules. More to come soon

[Challa007]

Anyway, I will write also myself to HiG as "simple" fan who has watched the anniversary live show and who realized that they do not know about the Wikicarpedia which I find personally a trumendous piece of fantasic work!
The more attenion the better