Mega Game and Tile Organization

[Meles]

I'm trying to figure out how I want to go at equipping with Carcassonne (I play online, well just started tonight ). And I've decided I want to go for the mega game capability since that does not work at all on my ipad. I have a table with a sunken area that is 37 x 74 inches. If feeling really ambitious I can top this for 42x84 inch flat surface.

I've spent a ridiculous amount of time studying expansions. I had just bought the C3 base game on sale for $20 at Miniature Market (I am USA based) but its on hold and I'm kicking myself for not going for the 2022 Big Box which already has both expansions plus the only way to get a lot of the promos in C3 (it would have been $47 and my reasoning at the time was I did not want the gigantic box plus I thought "new edition" expansions on sale were actually new rather than eight years old, plus I've come to like the big box cover and some of the expansions.)

I've certainly looked hard at C1 and C2, but I also really, really want the 20th anniversay edition and it is the one that has swayed me towards the C3 look despite it looking a bit busy at a distance. I also like the French C3 2022 Winter Edition quite a bit. I'd also been hoping to somehow get some donor C3 tiles for applying vinyl stickers of some print and play Carcassonne like Baba Yaga, etc. so the backs would be consistent. (As an aside it is a pain to get any mini expansion in USA as shipping from Cundco is over $50 to the USA for just one promo. )

So all my C3 plans with consistent backs were set and then I caught wind of the Mega Game at around 4 hours. It sounds like a lot of fun, but also has issues:
1. Tile seperation and Organization
2. And the details of how to go about it given my table limitations

I've heard of people using two big boxes together so double of the first two expansions as well and that this seems to balance well with maybe a few more expansions, but I'm not sure my playing area is suited for quite this much. This sounds great and not really that expensive if I can sweet talk Miniature Market into switching up my order at the sale prices, BUT it sounds like murder to seperate the expansions and base games from each other especially when you consider that many experienced players tend to just run the first two expansions and then vary maybe some of the minor expansions so they really never have to sort tiles.

I've not heard of it, but I'm thinking (especially if the tile backs will help with seperation) that it might be advantageous for a sane collection to actually have C2 and C3 versions. This all ties in with how you organize/store and do your tiles .... stacks on table, Towers, or crown royal bag (well I have a 9.5 x 15" Indiania Select Club velvet bag in royal red.)

This is far too much for a neophyte like myself to figure out, so I'm looking for some direction on this. I know people are particular about their tiles matching for the most part, but for Mega maybe NOT matching is a good idea?



Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=6342.0

[Scott]

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

Each expansion has a unique watermark, so separating expansions from base game tiles is quite straightforward. (This was not the case back in the Rio Grande Games days.) If you're going to play with two sets, then combining a C2 set with a C3 set would be a great way to separate them again afterward, though it will be easier for some tiles than others. You'll have to go by the artwork on the front, as the backs are identical.

In my games, we draw tiles from a large bag, but there are aftermarket towers with larger capacities too for those who prefer it.

You can see videos of my C1 and C2 collections and how they're stored, with all their fancy upgrades, here: https://www.facebook.com/CarcassonneCentral/videos
I haven't done a C3 video because it's very similar to my C2 set.

As for your table limitations, tiles are 1.75" square, so your 37x74" table can hold a maximum of 882 tiles. If you build a 42x84 topper, that will go up to 1152 tiles. These numbers assume no gaps, which is unlikely. They also don't leave room for the scoreboard or for players to store their meeples. So maybe deduct 10% or so to allow for both of those.

[Decar]

Welcome to for the forum Meles.

It sounds like the Carcassonne bug has bitten you, and good luck with your venture into Mega-Carcassonne.

I would work up slowly if you're coming from a digital base, there's a lot of nuanced things about playing in real life, not just sorting the tiles out after each game!

I'd recommend looking for blank tiles, as they can sometimes be a bit cheaper for donor tiles from base sets.  But printing and producing your own fan-expansion tiles may be worth doing after you've played some larger games with the official tiles.  I for one get burnt out managing all the rules and lose track of any strategic play when there's too much going on, but don't let me put you off.

For the massive games, I'd recommend you play on the floor!

Best of luck, let us know how you get on and share some photos!

[Meles]

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

Each expansion has a unique watermark, so separating expansions from base game tiles is quite straightforward. (This was not the case back in the Rio Grande Games days.) If you're going to play with two sets, then combining a C2 set with a C3 set would be a great way to separate them again afterward, though it will be easier for some tiles than others. You'll have to go by the artwork on the front, as the backs are identical.

In my games, we draw tiles from a large bag, but there are aftermarket towers with larger capacities too for those who prefer it.

You can see videos of my C1 and C2 collections and how they're stored, with all their fancy upgrades, here: https://www.facebook.com/CarcassonneCentral/videos
I haven't done a C3 video because it's very similar to my C2 set.

As for your table limitations, tiles are 1.75" square, so your 37x74" table can hold a maximum of 882 tiles. If you build a 42x84 topper, that will go up to 1152 tiles. These numbers assume no gaps, which is unlikely. They also don't leave room for the scoreboard or for players to store their meeples. So maybe deduct 10% or so to allow for both of those.

Thanks to you and Decar for the warm welcome. yes, the bug has bitten me but I don't have one tile in my possession yet. it is an odd time to be buying with the transition from C2 to C3 and the unsure roll out of C3. i've yet to watch the video of your storage, so I'll stay away from that subject for now.

I do want to ask a little bit more about the tile backs. If I stick with the USA sources (English) you would expect them to look really identical in shade? i've also heard that tile backs vary, but I suspect again that what I've read on differences doesn't really matter if I stick with the English edition only. even if the shade/look is identical, you should be able to always tell C2 from C3 by the rounding on the corners.

what would you think of both base games being C3? I really want the 20th anniversary edition, but I'm not totally sure that I could separate all of the tiles reliably from the regular C3 version. Would you see any problems with this?

would you really rule out C1 if I was able to land let's say a big box for a reasonable price off of eBay? I see the advantages of a watermarks, but if this were a more basic set largely combined to the big box when not in use the watermarks wouldn't matter so much. as I think about it, this would be the least attractive option, so maybe I should rule it out. I think I'm right in saying hands-down that C2 is going to look a lot better with C3.

there is one mini expansion that makes me want C1 and that is the 12 tile GQ set. it is available in the USA from the BGG shop for eight dollars. should I just buy it and mix it right in with my C3 tiles? Might that sway things to consider getting a C1 collection to go with C3 instead of C2?

[BBG]

Each expansion has a unique watermark

There's an exception! The HiG 2004 metal box limited edition containing the base game and the expansion #2 didn't add watermarks for the expansion so there's no way to immediately separate one from the other. In the end, it's still quite easy because 20 tiles out of 24 got goods symbols on them and the remaining 4 have configurations not present in the base game, but still it's a notable exception I think 

[Decar]

I'd stick with the newer stuff. In principle C1, C2, and C3 tiles are all compatible with each other. Their tile backs are the same.

Having said that, I think given a large print run you'd be able to distinguish tiles printed at the start and end of the run. There will always be variation in shades of grey and inks and printers for a game that's 20 years old.  The question is whether the variation is acceptable for you. I am fairly pragmatic and after a few different expansions and versions I can't really tell the difference. This is why the tile bag and the tile tower was introduced, to reduce people gaming the difference in tiles.

Some C2 sets have rounded corners. Some C3 sets have square corners. This isn't a helpful differentiator, it varies by run and publisher globally.  It was something someone noticed in C3, but had actually occurred sooner in some locations. I try not to let this myth propagate.

You'll be able to tell C3 and C20 apart very easily, all the C20 tiles have spot gloss on them, making key features and art shiny under light. It's a very nice set. I'd recommend getting it, and if you're going to be playing Mega Carcassonne an additional base game, like C3, won't be wasted.

I'd not rule mixing C1 and C3 together. Sure the art is a bit different, but there are some promos and expansions that are only available in one form or another. I'd much rather experience the mechanics than worry about consistent art.  But that's something you'll have to answer for yourself.

The reality is that C1 things are becoming hard to find and the publisher's interests are in the new version. I'd recommend using the latest version unless you're truly drawn to the old style, happy with the lack of official support, and, realistically, know you'll probably never find some of the earlier forgotten expansions.

...But you can probably tell I'm quite pragmatic, and it's easier for me to say this, as I've got a mostly complete C1 set.

[Meles]

I'd stick with the newer stuff. In principle C1, C2, and C3 tiles are all compatible with each other. Their tile backs are the same.

....You'll be able to tell C3 and C20 apart very easily, all the C20 tiles have spot gloss on them, making key features and art shiny under light. It's a very nice set. I'd recommend getting it, and if you're going to be playing Mega Carcassonne an additional base game, like C3, won't be wasted.

I'd not rule mixing C1 and C3 together. Sure the art is a bit different, but there are some promos and expansions that are only available in one form or another. I'd much rather experience the mechanics than worry about consistent art.  But that's something you'll have to answer for yourself.

The reality is that C1 things are becoming hard to find and the publisher's interests are in the new version. I'd recommend using the latest version unless you're truly drawn to the old style, happy with the lack of official support, and, realistically, know you'll probably never find some of the earlier forgotten expansions.

...But you can probably tell I'm quite pragmatic, and it's easier for me to say this, as I've got a mostly complete C1 set.

The promo/mini expansions drive me crazy. I'm pretty sure something like GQ Promo tiles would have sold in C2, but they'd only do it in C3 if at all. German Cathedrals I'd like to have even though C2 (better art compared to C1 if you ask me). Even though I'd bet it would sell in C3 I have no confidence it will ever be reissued. It would even make sense to have kind of a larger expansion pack reissuing promos in C3 much like Spirit Island's Feather and Flame which reissued their promo 1 and 2 packs at retail. The shipping from Cundco to the USA is an obscene 50 euros. They really need to get this organized. An expansion filled with promos would sell like hot cakes, but again it just is a mess. As someone new to the game I was shocked at the chaos around this game. I understand they want C2 to sell out in the USA and elsewhere before putting out a bunch of C3, so why not do something like this to keep the Carcassonne flames burning hot? I've got my eye on the GQ promo which somehow showed up at BGG a few years ago. (Was that a reprint or someone finding a case in a dusty warehouse?)

So for mega it seems like it makes sense to do C20 Anniversary which is C3 but easily sorted from the regular version. I like the big box so I'll want that in C3. Probably would make sense to track down a deal on C2 versions of the first two big expansions.

I'm still not sure about triple base game for a mega game or doubling up on any other expansions beyond the first two. I like the idea of Winter Version in C3, but not sure about importing that one from France. Is Winter Edition expected to be reissued widely once it sells out in Germany? Any other expansions or mini-expansions one would want doubled. Any suggestions for where to buy the smaller Carcassonne stuff? (Philibert has some and spielmaterial where shipping to USA though steep is not outrageous. There is a Finnish site, but that went to 50 euros which was disappointing as they had a deal on the C2 Big box.) Anyone still have German Cathedrals in stock? Board Game Bliss in Canada appears to get some of these small expansions, but they've been cleared out; I'm surprised there isn't a US dealer who does the equivalent. I don't believe I have a good source for blank tiles given the Cundco shipping costs.)

I suppose its too early to talk about Mists over Carcassonne as an expansion for the Mega game and if that is its soul purpose, it might be ransacked for tiles.

[Scott]

As Decar said, the spot gloss on the 20th anniversary edition makes it easy to separate those from the Big Box base game tiles.

Although German Cathedrals is technically C2, they blend fairly well with C3 because there are no city tiles.

Some people don't mind the art style difference when playing with C1 and C2/C3 at the same time, so if you want the GQ promo I would recommend picking it up. For me, the main attraction was the river spring tile with the road, because it helped break up the farms better. The 20th Anniversary river also has a new spring tile, which I think achieves the same thing, so the GQ promo is less necessary from a gameplay standpoint. The main reason to buy GQ would be if you feel the urge to buy one of everything.

Blank tiles show up on Etsy and eBay from time to time, but generally there isn't a great source for Cundco items in North America. Cundco is aware of this and said that they would see what they could do, but there are limits to what they can do. Cundco is run by Hans im Gluck employees. North American distribution is the responsibility of Asmodee through their Z-Man Games brand. Asmodee/ZMG does not seem to be particularly interested in promoting Carcassonne in North America. What little promotion they do seems to be only because I prod them incessantly on social media. That being said, Asmodee did import some French copies of the new Winter Edition and I bought a copy from a retailer in Quebec.

Mists over Carcassonne seems to have arrived in North America, because someone on our Discord who works at a board game store said that her store has them in stock now. It's still listed as a pre-order item on Asmodee's online shop, and I haven't received a shipping notification from them yet, but hopefully soon.

My recommendation would be to wait until the new items are posted on Cundco (April 28), and then place a large order for everything you want (or can afford right now) to maximize the value you get for the 50 euros worth of shipping charges.

[Decar]

Seems like Scott's already explained how the publishers work. The thing to bear in mind is that if HiG sold it's stock to the USA, then their license wouldn't be so profitable for Z-Man.

This applies to countries and their languages. Their license allows them to do as they wish with Carcassonne. Normally that means keeping in step, but there are lots of times were things get out of sync.

Zman is particularly rubbish at getting releases out. If it's any consolation, there was an old Carcassonne Shoppe in the USA, but there were some unfavorable terms for them and they eventually had to close.

[Meles]

Seems like Scott's already explained how the publishers work. The thing to bear in mind is that if HiG sold it's stock to the USA, then their license wouldn't be so profitable for Z-Man.

This applies to countries and their languages. Their license allows them to do as they wish with Carcassonne. Normally that means keeping in step, but there are lots of times were things get out of sync.

Zman is particularly rubbish at getting releases out. If it's any consolation, there was an old Carcassonne Shoppe in the USA, but there were some unfavorable terms for them and they eventually had to close.

Excellent response. That is crystal clear and explains the whole USA thing. I guess I'm going to have to keep my eyes peeled at Board Game Bliss. I was looking today on board game oracle and it looks like Miniature Market in the last few years has had just a few items.

[Meles]

......
My recommendation would be to wait until the new items are posted on Cundco (April 28), and then place a large order for everything you want (or can afford right now) to maximize the value you get for the 50 euros worth of shipping charges.

Great advice and I'll count down the days. I'm hoping that spielmaterial will get some of this new stuff before too long because they have much lower shipping and I want some meeples and discs etc. German wood bits have a certain gestalt.

So if I want C3 Winter Edition I probably should snap that up and not wait on ZMan?

[gamgeefan2]

Hi Meles,
I'm also in the US and bought nearly all the C1 (by that I mean one of each set... not every different release from every publisher like some true collectors on here) a couple years ago.  If you ever decide you want any of those, please let me know and I'll create a new public post of "C1 for sale".  I'll look for any extra C2 I might have, and if any will reply in this post with details.

[BBG]

Hi Meles,
I'm also in the US and bought nearly all the C1 (by that I mean one of each set... not every different release from every publisher like some true collectors on here) a couple years ago.  If you ever decide you want any of those, please let me know and I'll create a new public post of "C1 for sale".  I'll look for any extra C2 I might have, and if any will reply in this post with details.

Hi. If you're willing to ship in Europe, I'd be interested in the following C1 items:
- Cult, Siege & Creativity
- Besiegers
- Castles in Germany
- Crop Circles
- Darmstadt Promo
- The Festival (10 years)
- Halflings II
- Russian Promos I
- Russian Promos II
- Cathars
- Heretics and Shrines
- The Plague
- The Tunnel

[gamgeefan2]

Hi Meles,
I'm also in the US and bought nearly all the C1 (by that I mean one of each set... not every different release from every publisher like some true collectors on here) a couple years ago.  If you ever decide you want any of those, please let me know and I'll create a new public post of "C1 for sale".  I'll look for any extra C2 I might have, and if any will reply in this post with details.

Hi. If you're willing to ship in Europe, I'd be interested in the following C1 items:
- Cult, Siege & Creativity
- Besiegers
- Castles in Germany
- Crop Circles
- Darmstadt Promo
- The Festival (10 years)
- Halflings II
- Russian Promos I
- Russian Promos II
- Cathars
- Heretics and Shrines
- The Plague
- The Tunnel

I'll start a new post offering C1 for sale with pricing.  I'm happy to ship to Europe, but I think you'll find higher availability in Europe for many of these, and also for less than shipping from the US will cost you.

[Meles]

Hi Meles,
I'm also in the US and bought nearly all the C1 (by that I mean one of each set... not every different release from every publisher like some true collectors on here) a couple years ago.  If you ever decide you want any of those, please let me know and I'll create a new public post of "C1 for sale".  I'll look for any extra C2 I might have, and if any will reply in this post with details.

Thanks gamgee, but my head is spinning with all this and it will take a while before I'm willing to go after C1 (if ever). My interest in the newer C2 and C3 stuff mini promo stuff is more because its available now, so kind of a snooze you lose kind of situation. I've also shied away from the maps, but might pick up some from the BGG shop for similar reasoning. (They've got East and West US map which can be played together and mentioned earlier in thread and have the maps chips as well, but I'm not sure they're necessary at all.) If I wait on BGG shop stuff and then decide I want it after its gone, then at the very least I may get slammed by the shipping from Germany or worse.