Author Topic: Little Summer Quiz 2020  (Read 17930 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2020, 04:34:35 PM »
This "special case containment" was also applied to German cathedrals regarding the road segments on their tiles:
* Road segments on the cathedral tile can be counted individually if connected to the same road network.
* Other bonuses applied on top, such as the Mage, do not get tainted by this exception when they weren't designed (and probably not even tested) to work in a combined way.

The rationale behind this is to keep the scoring rules as close to the original version and their associated clarifications. Otherwise, you may end up with a scenario of exponential complexity where generalized exceptions may lead to rules clashing all over the place.

Again, better to apply interactions like overlapping self-contained layers than like a cartesian product of all the possibilities that can lead you to a myriad of special cases due to the lack of testing by HiG.

For example, if you try to apply the exception for monastery scoring defined by C2 Halflings to any expansion pivoting around a feature, you will need to create new concepts that didn't exist in the original game like virtually merging Halflings into squares or virtually splitting double-sized tiles depending on the interaction. As a result, you may end up with a long list of special cases and exceptions...

Finally, remember that the Carcassonne expansion landscape is a dynamic one and HiG may add new mechanics clashing with whatever constructs you created at a certain point. That's why compartmentalizing special cases is key.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 04:40:57 PM by Meepledrone »
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2020, 02:27:01 AM »
Well by rules with C2 halflings. By examples in rules we are platiny that Monastery Hať to be finished outer squere by tiles arround Monastery tile. Doesn't mather if there is standard or double triangle tiles. It has to have outer squere made from tiles arround Monastery. Than player get 9 points. At end game if triangle is not outer but inner squere than player got 0 points for this tile.
Same for other expansions need tiles arround like German Castles, Barber surgeons, fan expansions.


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Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2020, 06:37:37 AM »
Can you explain what you mean by inner triangle and outer triangle? I didn't get what you mean.

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2020, 01:45:59 PM »
Ok. In rules of Halflings C2 is showed, when Monastery is finished with halflings and player will get 9 points for finished monastery, 1 point for every "standar sized" tile.
So, when you check it, there is finished outer squere arround monastery tiles - purple one.
And inner squere is red one.
Second Image - outer quere is not complete, so monastery is not finished, and user can get only 8 points on end of game also when Abbot occupy Monastery and returned during the game.

Offline NGC 54

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2020, 01:53:39 PM »
Both monasteries are completed.
I translate WikiCarpedia in Romanian (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Main_Page/ro). I have 45,600+ edits at WICA. My WICA user page: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/User:NGC_54. Romanian translation of WICA: https://wikicarpedia.com/car/Special:LanguageStats?language=ro&x=D#sortable:3=desc.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2020, 02:08:27 PM »
Correct! When Halflings are involved, a monastery is completed if all the 8 adjacent spaces are occupied. A space is occupied when it has any of the following options: 
* 1 square tile
* 1 triangular tile in any position
* 2 triangular tiles (making a square)
* 1 half of a double-sized tile by extension ;)

This why there is a paradigm shift for monasteries in the rules here. You don't think of adjacent tiles but occupied spaces.


Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2020, 02:12:01 PM »
Well, In czech it's saing "Co je psáno, to je dáno" Latin use this sentense Littera scripta manet which is not exactly same, but it means same ;-)
English translator says: "what is written is given" or translate of latin origin sentense "written word remains".

Anyway I thing if second image will be finished and HiG will want like it also, they will create example of finished monastery also with this variant in rules.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2020, 02:32:03 PM »
The problem HiG have is that they space for the rules is very limited so they try to add as much information as possible even shortening sentences or removing intended examples.

For C2 HiG added these three examples of completed monasteries...



...and instead they discarded this final scoring example available in the C1 rules as a trade-off.



C1 final scoring rules here: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)#Final_scoring

However, I added these rules to C2 Halflings as a clarification so no C1 info was lost for WICA visitors:



You can find here the clarification for C2:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#cite_note-8

Last but not least, I also added a clarification about the misleading wording in the original rules about scoring vineyard points... ahem, ahem!... including this completed monastery example not covered in the official rules but inferred from the them:  ;)



You can find here the clarification:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings#cite_note-9

PS: As you may imagine, I am fascinated by Halflings and I can tell you I have dedicated full weeks to scan the four corners of the Internet (including this forum and CarcF) looking for any tiny official clarification available about them. You can see how incomplete the rules are. So I added to WICA all the info there is, including the clarifications from 10/2015 (final ruleset for C1) not covered in the CAR and later overridden, at least for monasteries, by the C2 Halflings rules in 2020 (current ruleset for C2).

* C1 Halflings: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings_(1st_edition)
* C2 Halflings: http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Halflings
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 02:52:45 PM by Meepledrone »

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2020, 04:15:34 AM »
Yeah, I know. But as they changed rules in C2, I don't apply rules for C1, because they changed them.
So when showed examples are finished monasteries in C2, and some rule is showed in C1, doesn't mean that this rule is also for C1. As I wrote, if they wanted to have like this, it will be also in rules.
There were a lot of discussion about Halflings rules before publishing C2, so I guest they solve it this way ;-D

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2020, 09:09:30 AM »
Well, Halflings has been a troublesome expansion expansion since it is release. Nothing has changed since the C2 rules are the same as C1 without taking into account the clarifications in 10/2015. So we are left with the clarifications as clarified in 10/2015 but getting back to monasteries like in the original rules. For monasteries it was a step back in terms of scoring but a step forward in terms of how a monastery is considered complete. Just that.

As you can see, we are still discussing their implications 6 years later ...

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2020, 09:29:00 AM »
:D Well, it will be issue for JCloisterZone with Halflings ;-D

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2020, 12:11:23 PM »
Poor Farin!

Weird tiles in H&S gave him a hard time. Are you asking from him to add Halflings too?

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2020, 12:16:29 PM »
I take the opportunity to post the next question in the quiz...



Question #6:

:yellow-meeple: places the tile highlighted in yellow and completes two roads. How many points do :yellow-meeple: and :red-meeple: score?

« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 03:30:10 AM by Meepledrone »

Offline NGC 54

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2020, 03:26:53 PM »
If no meeple in Wainwrights quarter, messages, robbers etc.:
Red: 8 points for the road with the witch.
Yellow: 12 points for the road with the mage.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 03:28:55 PM by Carcassonne93 »

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Little Summer Quiz 2020
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2020, 12:09:35 PM »
Yjis is quite simple for yellow:
Yellow - 4 points for road * 2 for inn + 4 for Mage = 12 points
More difficult for red, plaing by C2 rules (because of C2 tiles)
Red - 4 points for road * 2 for inn /2 for Witch + 4 points for bads = 8 points
None of meeple will going to bad becaouse more then 1 meeple (2) scored.


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