Author Topic: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014  (Read 15231 times)

Offline kettlefish

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Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« on: October 09, 2014, 01:27:49 AM »
I've got some answers from HiG (Georg Wild) by meeting at the fair in Leipzig 04.10.2014:

Question in BLUE

Answer in GREEN

Still open in RED

My own comments in  MAROON

Obervet gave me the questions in August 2014 by email.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1113.0
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 01:42:02 AM by kettlefish »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2014, 01:41:30 AM »
1. A previous clarification stated that you can't move a follower from the cathedral quarter of the City to a German Monastery with an abbot, since it won't finish in the usual time frame.
However, if the German Monastery has a normal monk (i.e. acting as a regular cloister), and it finishes, can you move a follower to it from the City and declare it as an abbot instead?

No, you can’t move a follower from the quarter of the cathedral of the City Carcassonne as an abbot on the German Monastery if it is finished as a normal cloister with a monk on it.
You can only move a follower from the quarter of the cathedral of the City Carcassonne as monk, because only this feature (the German Monastery as a cloister) is finished for scoring.

--------------------------------------------------------------
2a. If a player draws a Hill as the last tile is he allowed to place it without putting a tile under it?
Yes, a hill tile is allowed to place it as the last tile. The normal turn takes place (move wood and score finished features).

2b. Or, does not having a tile under it bar him from placing the tile?
No, the hill tile can be placed without a tile under it.
----------------------------------------------------------------
3a. Does a tunnel token get placed during the Move Wood phase or any time during a turn?
A tunnel token get placed during any time at the players turn.

3b. If a road is completed by placing a tunnel token, is this scored immediately or during the normal scoring phase?
The finished road with tunnel tokens is scored during the normal scoring phase.

I've read the German rules and this is what I've solved about the rules. I've got no answer from HiG, because it is still an expansion from Spielbox.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I have some more...

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2014, 02:58:45 AM »
2a. If a player draws a Hill as the last tile is he allowed to place it without putting a tile under it?
Yes, a hill tile is allowed to place it as the last tile. The normal turn takes place (move wood and score finished features).

2b. Or, does not having a tile under it bar him from placing the tile?
No, the hill tile can be placed without a tile under it.
Obvious follow-up:
Without the tile under the Hill tile, does the Hill feature still break ties or is it treated as a normal tile? I assume it still works, but that's not clear from his answer.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2014, 03:15:49 AM »
2a. If a player draws a Hill as the last tile is he allowed to place it without putting a tile under it?
Yes, a hill tile is allowed to place it as the last tile. The normal turn takes place (move wood and score finished features).

2b. Or, does not having a tile under it bar him from placing the tile?
No, the hill tile can be placed without a tile under it.
Obvious follow-up:
Without the tile under the Hill tile, does the Hill feature still break ties or is it treated as a normal tile? I assume it still works, but that's not clear from his answer.
Yes you can place a follower on the hill tile like a normal tile, but you can't place a follower into a feature which has still followers in it - No tie break is possible.
Example: city - the city has 1 red big follower and 1 blue normal follower - then the hill tile is placed and expanded the city - you can place a follower (1 blue normal follower) on that tile, but not on the city, because there are followers in it. And the tie breaker works only if the follower belongs to that feature (here city).

« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 03:20:09 AM by kettlefish »

Offline MrNumbers

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2014, 03:17:13 AM »
Obvious follow-up:
Without the tile under the Hill tile, does the Hill feature still break ties or is it treated as a normal tile? I assume it still works, but that's not clear from his answer.

My first thought was exactly the same. But I can't imagine the situation when tie-breaker is needed, since it is a last tile of the game.
"I never lose. Either I win or I learn." (Nelson Mandela)

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2014, 03:57:36 AM »
How about a Follower brought in from the City of Carcassonne at game end? Can't the player choose the tile of the feature, or does it go beside an existing Follower?

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 04:13:13 AM »
How about a Follower brought in from the City of Carcassonne at game end? Can't the player choose the tile of the feature, or does it go beside an existing Follower?
Hi whaleyland,
a very good question - we didn't talk about this special situation...
Next week I will meet again Georg Wild at Spiel in Essen, there I will ask him this great question...  ;D
I am happy to get answers - but each time when I post here the clarification - then new questions came up... I will never finish my work...  :P

My suggestion is: Yes in this case it is possible to put the follower from the quarter of the castle (City of Carcassonne) into the finished city.

In my example we have now one big red follower and two blue normal follower in that finished city. One blue normal follower stands on that hill tile (on the city segment) - the tie break works. Blue gets the points of the city and red doesn't get points.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 08:59:04 AM by kettlefish »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2014, 05:13:42 AM »
The next part of the clarification of rules:
please don't wonder because of the numbers - I will answer the "easier" questions first.
Now we have the question #8 and #10
----------------------------------------------
8. Are the bazaar and wheel of fortune icons resolved even if the tile cannot be placed and must ultimately be discarded?

The bazaar landscape tile:
The bazaar takes place after the tile is drawn and placed. If there is no chance to place the tile according to the normal placement of rules the tile has been discarded. That means the bazaar doesn’t take place.
The bazaar tile doesn’t interrupt the first phase of the turn (to draw and place the landscape tile)

The wheel of fortune landscape tile:
The wheel of fortune tile interrupts the first phase of the turn (to draw and place the landscape tile).
That means the turn interrupts after “to draw” the “wheel of fortune” landscape tile and then the action of the Wheel of Fortune takes place, before the “wheel of fortune” landscape tile is placed. After the actions of the “Wheel of Fortune” the “wheel of fortune” landscape tile has been discarded if there is no regular placement of that tile possible.

-------------------------------------------------------
10a. If a player draws a tile that normally could not be played and would have to be discarded, but the tile could be played with use of a bridge, is the player required to use the bridge to play the tile?
No. The player is not required to use the bridge for a placement of the tile.

10b. Or does the player get to choose whether he uses the bridge (and plays the tile) or discards the tile?
Yes, the player has the choice to use the bridge for placement of the tile or just discard the tile.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 06:16:51 AM by kettlefish »

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2014, 05:39:28 AM »
2a. If a player draws a Hill as the last tile is he allowed to place it without putting a tile under it?
Yes, a hill tile is allowed to place it as the last tile. The normal turn takes place (move wood and score finished features).

2b. Or, does not having a tile under it bar him from placing the tile?
No, the hill tile can be placed without a tile under it.
Obvious follow-up:
Without the tile under the Hill tile, does the Hill feature still break ties or is it treated as a normal tile? I assume it still works, but that's not clear from his answer.
Yes you can place a follower on the hill tile like a normal tile, but you can't place a follower into a feature which has still followers in it - No tie break is possible.
Example: city - the city has 1 red big follower and 1 blue normal follower - then the hill tile is placed and expanded the city - you can place a follower (1 blue normal follower) on that tile, but not on the city, because there are followers in it. And the tie breaker works only if the follower belongs to that feature (here city).

Player A might place a follower on the hill tile on a city segment without expanding the city and later player B player could place a tile connecting the hill tile city segment to a city in which player C has majority. This is good for player B if player A has least points and player C could go first if C gets the points for the city.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2014, 06:01:27 AM »
2a. If a player draws a Hill as the last tile is he allowed to place it without putting a tile under it?
Yes, a hill tile is allowed to place it as the last tile. The normal turn takes place (move wood and score finished features).

2b. Or, does not having a tile under it bar him from placing the tile?
No, the hill tile can be placed without a tile under it.
Obvious follow-up:
Without the tile under the Hill tile, does the Hill feature still break ties or is it treated as a normal tile? I assume it still works, but that's not clear from his answer.
Yes you can place a follower on the hill tile like a normal tile, but you can't place a follower into a feature which has still followers in it - No tie break is possible.
Example: city - the city has 1 red big follower and 1 blue normal follower - then the hill tile is placed and expanded the city - you can place a follower (1 blue normal follower) on that tile, but not on the city, because there are followers in it. And the tie breaker works only if the follower belongs to that feature (here city).

Player A might place a follower on the hill tile on a city segment without expanding the city and later player B player could place a tile connecting the hill tile city segment to a city in which player C has majority. This is good for player B if player A has least points and player C could go first if C gets the points for the city.
Hi Fritz_Spinne,
here was the question if the hill tile is the last tile at the stack for the last turn after that turn there is the end of the game. There is no more drawing a next tile possible that means there is no more later turns in that game (perhaps only a turn with abbey tile).

Offline Fritz_Spinne

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2014, 08:11:14 AM »
Agreed, I only focussed on last turn for myself, but not on the last turn in the game. For the last turn of the game there is no more chance to connect, only for a follower from the City of Carcassonne.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2014, 08:25:37 AM »
The next part of the clarification of rules:
please don't wonder because of the numbers - I will answer the "easier" questions first.
Now we have the question #6
-----------------------------------------
6. (the situation)
In the rules for the Robbers, it is stated that “If a robber is on the same space as several counting followers, and more than one of these followers scores points on the same turn, the owner of the robber can choose which counting follower’s points to gets half of.”


6a. Thus, as stated, if one of the followers receives 1 fairy point at the beginning of the turn, a robber could wait until the very end of the turn to see if another follower on the same space scored a feature. Is this true?
No. The robber can't wait. The scoring of the fairy takes place to an earlier time than the other scorings in that turn - even before a tile is drawn and placed.

6b. Or are the times to check based more on “scoring rounds” which seem to be used for Messages (the robber would have to take the fairy point right away, since no other scoring occurs during that time in the turn)?
Yes, it is more based on "scoring rounds". The robber gets one point (a half round up) like the active player with his fairy-point at the beginning of the active players turn.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2014, 10:29:00 AM »
The next part of the clarification of rules:
please don't wonder because of the numbers - I will answer the "easier" questions first.
Now we have the question #9
-----------------------------------------
9. When the little buildings are scored, the rules state that “points are added during the scoring after all the others.”

9a. Does this mean that the little building points are still considered part of the score for the primary feature, just after other modifications (such as inn/cathedral and mage/witch).
Yes, this is correct.

9b. Or does this mean that the little building points are completely separate (which has important implications for scoring of Robbers and the Teacher).
No, the building points are added to the primary feature. The building point is not a separate scoring.

Offline MrNumbers

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2014, 11:37:33 PM »
For the last turn of the game there is no more chance to connect, only for a follower from the City of Carcassonne.

I found another way to use this last Hill tile - playing with Plague you can take a flight from the Plague during your last turn, and move your follower from ordinary tile of the city to the Hill tile, winning the tie.

Offline Carcking

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2014, 02:46:36 AM »
For the last turn of the game there is no more chance to connect, only for a follower from the City of Carcassonne.

I found another way to use this last Hill tile - playing with Plague you can take a flight from the Plague during your last turn, and move your follower from ordinary tile of the city to the Hill tile, winning the tie.

Yes, this is a good one MrNumbers. Funny how many different scenarios are created in this game.

Intuition would say that a Hill with no tile underneath does not have the same "power" as a Hill with a tile underneath (or else what is the point?). But who can guess what HiG will say  :)
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!


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