Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: SRBO on October 30, 2014, 05:31:35 AM
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~ Updated.. Rules are not what I was thinking..
See post KettleFish Below
Hello Guys,
So I've come across some interactions between halflings and other expansions and i want to point them out.
Just to be clear: these are not official yet..
Monasteries
As you can see in the picture below the halflings make gaps. these gaps stop the counting of the monasteries. This will make it easier to stop the heavy pointmaking monasteries to be fully scored.
So these work perfectly together.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/537/oHvL0c.png)
Plague
In picture below you can see a set up of some tiles with the plague.
the upper tile can only be infected if both halflings are there.
if like the left side, they aren't put down together you make it harder for the outbreak to grow.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/674/glTVdH.png)
Abbey
Thanks to jungleboy to find this out!
In picture below you can clearly see that the abbey can put down only if ALL 4 sides can be connected!
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/673/WAb8Qf.png)
Finishing a City
as the halfling is officialy 1 tile you score 14 points instead of 12 in picture below.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/JwvvUl.png)
Cloisters and Darmstadt.
Well, this is one I really don't know. does gray score 6, 7 or 8 points? considering that tile "8" isnt really connected to the cloister.
also does the tile "7?" be added to the counting?
IF yes. then green scores another 3 points because of darmstadt and gray gets 8 points.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/913/xKJp7Q.png)
In picture below this problem is not attended. because both tiles in the rightcorner are a diagonal of the cloister, you score 2 points with it.
in this case green definitly takes +3 points.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/H8ikrn.png)
Flier
In the picture below you can see the flier. Black has thrown 2, in this case you fly to the 1st halflingtile, which is first connected to the fliertile.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/911/6c9gs7.png)
In picture below Black has thrown 3, considering each halfling is 1 tile. he flies to the 2nd halflingtile.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/908/nJgkAR.png)
If anyone finds more problems I'll update this post untill the CAR is ready.
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I hope this helps for you guys:)
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Nice work finding and documenting all these interesting interactions!
But we can't create the rules ourselves; we need kettlefish to raise these with HIG and get official rulings. Though as Whaleyland has mentioned, there probably won't be a ruling on the Plague.
Personally, I still think HIG will rule the other way with the Monasteries (i.e. that one halfling is enough to keep the row alive). That would be consistent with how they treat single halflings in cloister scoring.
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Nice work finding and documenting all these interesting interactions!
But we can't create the rules ourselves; we need kettlefish to raise these with HIG and get official rulings. Though as Whaleyland has mentioned, there probably won't be a ruling on the Plague.
Personally, I still think HIG will rule the other way with the Monasteries (i.e. that one halfling is enough to keep the row alive). That would be consistent with how they treat single halflings in cloister scoring.
Hmm.. I just assumed that the interactions would be like this. personally i think this is the best rule for Monasteries. and all of the interactions stating that the tiles need to be connected.. and a gap in my opinion isnt a connection.
ofcourse they need to get raised with HIG. but there now is a list with interactions
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Also, there are so many publishers these day.. its a bit sick to get every interaction official..
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SRBO,
can you please create an example with a normal cloister?
You have created many examples with special expansions like the plague the darmstadt mini...
Please create some examples with the minis from HiG/CundCo... ;D
It is for me easier to answer first for the expansions from HiG/CundCo.
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SRBO,
can you please create an example with a normal cloister?
You have created many examples with special expansions like the plague the darmstadt mini...
Please create some examples with the minis from HiG/CundCo... ;D
It is for me easier to answer first for the expansions from HiG/CundCo.
Yes, i will!
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It's my understanding that a "tile", when it comes to interactions with the halflings, means the square area where either a normal, half tile or two half tiles is located. The "gaps" left by the use of a single triangle tile are only relevant in regards to completion/continuation of features (roads/farms/cities).
I base this on the way the rules describe the halflings and cloisters:
Cloisters: When playing with this expansion, a cloister is considered to be completed even if one or more of its surrounding tiles are triangular tiles. In this case, a triangular tile scores as a normal landscape tile (1 point per tile surrounding the cloister). If there are 2 triangular tiles in the same square “space”, they still only count as 1 point (together) for scoring a cloister.
If that's correct then:
In the first picture, you would count 1, 2, 3 (the two triangle tiles), 4 rather than - 1,2,3,4,5 where 3 and 4 are the two triangle tiles.
In the "finishing a City" picture, city parts 4 and 5 only count as one tile.
In the "Cloisters and Darmstadt" picture, Green gets 3 (for majority of meeples) and Grey gets 7 (1 for the cloister, 6 for the surrounding tile spaces that have been occupied by at least 1 tile). In the second of these pictures, Triangle tile 8 counts as a normal tile for the cloister and tiles 6 and 7 count as 1 tile.
With The Flier examples, I would also say that the 2 triangle tiles together count as 1 tile.
It might be safe to assume that 2 adjacent triangle tiles, that have been placed so as to form a normal square tile, are functionally identical to a normal square tile.
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It's my understanding that a "tile", when it comes to interactions with the halflings, means the square area where either a normal, half tile or two half tiles is located. The "gaps" left by the use of a single triangle tile are only relevant in regards to completion/continuation of features (roads/farms/cities).
I base this on the way the rules describe the halflings and cloisters:
Cloisters: When playing with this expansion, a cloister is considered to be completed even if one or more of its surrounding tiles are triangular tiles. In this case, a triangular tile scores as a normal landscape tile (1 point per tile surrounding the cloister). If there are 2 triangular tiles in the same square “space”, they still only count as 1 point (together) for scoring a cloister.
If that's correct then:
In the first picture, you would count 1, 2, 3 (the two triangle tiles), 4 rather than - 1,2,3,4,5 where 3 and 4 are the two triangle tiles.
In the "finishing a City" picture, city parts 4 and 5 only count as one tile.
In the "Cloisters and Darmstadt" picture, Green gets 3 (for majority of meeples) and Grey gets 7 (1 for the cloister, 6 for the surrounding tile spaces that have been occupied by at least 1 tile). In the second of these pictures, Triangle tile 8 counts as a normal tile for the cloister and tiles 6 and 7 count as 1 tile.
With The Flier examples, I would also say that the 2 triangle tiles together count as 1 tile.
It might be safe to assume that 2 adjacent triangle tiles, that have been placed so as to form a normal square tile, are functionally identical to a normal square tile.
Funny that i totally missed that..
It just doesnt make any sense to me.. A gap is a gap.
If its so that 2 triangles are counted as 1. and gaps are not being considered. NONE of above rules would be applied.
The whole fun of it would be gone for me.. and i would play this as an house rule.
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As long as there's no official word said about the halflings, I'll consider 2 halflings to be 1 tile and 1 halfling to be 0 tiles.
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I've talked with Georg Wild (HiG) about the triangle tiles at Spiel in Essen.
A triangle tile is a half landscape tile.
My first question was about the triangle tiles and the 3rd expansion. I always ask first about the gameplay with the dragon and the fairy. ;D
The dragon and triangle tiles:
The move of the dragon is 6 landscape tiles long. The dragon has an effect of the whole landscape tile.
The triangle tile is a half landscape tile - when the dragon moves on one triangle tile - this is one move. If there are two triangle tiles - then the move of the dragon is one "step" from 6 "steps". That means the dragon eats all followers (and pig, builder, shepherd) if they are on both of the triangle tiles
(example from SRBO - trangle tiles with the number 2 + 3)
The fairy and triangle tiles:
The fairy protects all figures (followers, pig, builder, shepherd) on the landscape tile where the fairy stands. The triangle tile is a half landscape tile - that means the fairy also protects the figures at the other triangle tile.
(example from SRBO - trangle tiles with the number 2 + 3)
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I've talked with Georg Wild (HiG) about the triangle tiles at Spiel in Essen.
A triangle tile is a half landscape tile.
My first question was about the triangle tiles and the 3rd expansion. I always ask first about the gameplay with the dragon and the fairy. ;D
The dragon and triangle tiles:
The move of the dragon is 6 landscape tiles long. The dragon has an effect of the whole landscape tile.
The triangle tile is a half landscape tile - when the dragon moves on one triangle tile - this is one move. If there are two triangle tiles - then the move of the dragon is one "step" from 6 "steps". That means the dragon eats all followers (and pig, builder, shepherd) if they are on one of the triangle tiles
(example from SRBO - trangle tiles with the number 2 + 3)
The fairy and triangle tiles:
The fairy protects all figures (followers, pig, builder, shepherd) on the landscape tile where the fairy stands. The triangle tile is a half landscape tile - that means the fairy also protects the figures at the other triangle tile.
(example from SRBO - trangle tiles with the number 2 + 3)
So if i understand it correctly, just like my example if the dragon moves, each halfling is 1 step.
And the fairy protects both. Nice!
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the dragon - one landscape tile (both triangle tiles)
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Yeah, kettle fish is sying the opposite SRBO. Both triangles make one tile for the dragon, regardless of if both tiles are there. One step, not two.
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Yeah, kettle fish is sying the opposite SRBO. Both triangles make one tile for the dragon, regardless of if both tiles are there. One step, not two.
Ah owke.
This indeed means that all the rules above are incorrect and indeed triangles are considered 1 tile, regarless if there are 1 or 2 halflings..
haha, well then i need to adjust xd, I will update the post above..
I hoped for the other rules.. because then you could have really intressting interactions with carcassonne.
now its just a tile to fill and create new gaps or annoy your opponent by making an impossible gap.
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Hi SRBO,
why did you put all your nice pictures away?
I need some pictures - for explaining the rules...
And there are still some parts - which need some more talk between me and HiG...
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Hi SRBO,
why did you put all your nice pictures away?
I need some pictures - for explaining the rules...
And there are still some parts - which need some more talk between me and HiG...
Ive put them back
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We have played our first game with the Haflings this evening (both I and II). Thanks to SRBO and Khonnor we also played with the Dutch & Belgium Monasteries and Darmstadt for the first time. :(y)
Before we started, we agreed that we wouldn’t use the official rules for the Haflings - they just don't seems right. >:(
We agreed that:
- A tile is a tile - half or whole.
- A gap is a gap, whatever tile is missing - half or whole.
- You get points for every tile in a structure - half or whole.
- You have one of each tile on your hand all the time. When you place one tile you draw a new one (whole if you placed a whole tile - half if you placed a half tile).
- When all of one type of tile is spent, you only get to have one tile on your hand.
- The game ends when all the tiles are used.
This worked just perfect and are now our official house rules. ;D
We liked that the Haflings, with our house rules, gets you more opportunities to gather more points from cloisters and cities, but also more opportunities to stop your opponent.
Our conclusion is that SRBO’s first take on the rules (in his first post in this tread) makes the game more interesting and the official rules don't seem right. >:D
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I tend to think differently about your 3rd point. It tends to go against your first two points.You get a point per whole tile or part thereof. I.e. a city scores the same irrespective of if there are one or two tiles in the gap. It may not be completed though without both half tiles in SRBO's examples. I like the first two points though and think it defines things well.
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so...
I can suppose that we can use this general rule:
for any interaction with all the game components 1 half tile or 2 half tiles that makes 1 normal tiles are considered always 1 normal tile.
so... for counting points 2 half tiles that makes 1 normal tile count always like 1 normal tile (2 halfs counts 1 tile for cloister; 2 half roads tiles toghether are 1 road tile; 2 half city tiles in a big city are 1 normal city tile)
so... there are no holes near only 1 half tile (es: for the German Monastery or the dragon movement regardless of the direction he comes from)
so... if there is something that has effect on a tile, this effect 2 hlaf tiles that makes 1 normal tile (es: the fairy effect); if a player can chose an element on a tile for do something (like the flayer, the portal or I don't know...) he can chose elements from both 2 half tiles that makes 1 normal tile
If all this is correct is not difficoult to apply this to all the other expansion... only the abbey from abbey and mayor are a real problem...
what do you think about that?