Author Topic: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)  (Read 47588 times)

Offline danisthirty

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"Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« on: June 02, 2015, 04:33:03 AM »
Based on the suggested potential possibility (i.e. by no means a certainty or necessarily even the likelihood - more info here) of a small Carcassonne event hosted by Carcassonne Central (or at least in collaboration with us) at next years UK Games Expo, I’m interested to know peoples thoughts on how such an event might be run.

The only requirement is that it wouldn’t be “pure” Carcassonne as this is what the main championship is for, so could potentially include any number of expansions. With this in mind, I’ve put down some of my initial thoughts below, and have opted to keep it small initially purely for the sake of keeping it simple at this stage. I’m very keen to hear from you so please post below.

The event would have a fixed number of seats available. Perhaps 16 so that we could do four tables of four and then have a winners table afterwards for the four winners to compete against each other (and 2nds vs. 2nds, 3rds vs. 3rds, 4ths vs. 4ths). This way, everyone gets exactly 2 games and there is an overall winner at the end of it (the player who wins the winners table).

The first round and second round wouldn’t necessarily have to use the same set of expansions, but each round could consists of a game including roughly 150 - 200 tiles. The list of expansions to be included in each round would be published several weeks in advance of the games so that players would be clear on the rules, and we could even refer them to the CAR for clarification. This said, each table would still require a referee, but with just four tables we’d only need four of us to oversee it all and I’m hopeful that finding four committed members of CarcC (well, 3 really since I’m already in obviously) shouldn’t be too onerous a task.

Games of this size might take a long time to complete, so we would need to consider putting a time limit on them (perhaps 2 hours) after which time has elapsed no more tiles are drawn and final scoring takes place as usual. Because of this, it may also be worth considering an individual limit on tile placement (perhaps 2 minutes) after which the player misses their turn and their tile goes back in the bag (assuming we use bags).

A very rough schedule might be something like the below:

10am: Registration
10:15: Round 1
12:15: Break for lunch (after final scoring of games that have reached their 2-hour limit)
13:00: Round 2
15:00: Prize-giving (after final scoring of games that have reached their 2-hour limit)

So, it looks like such a tournament could take 5 hours to complete but this is a very rough estimate based purely on my initial thoughts which may well be nonsense.

With 4 tables in play at once, hopefully we would be able to come up with enough base sets and expansions between us (depending on which we use obviously, so it may be wise to steer clear of the likes of the Cathars and the Tunnels) so we shouldn’t require any assistance in this respect as long as those of us supporting it are willing to let others use their tiles.

Finally, we could offer small prizes. I would hope to be able to offer a special tile to everyone who takes place, plus a small prize for everyone who wins a game in either round (maybe a set of custom meeples, a small expansion, or both) and an overall prize for the winner of the winner’s table. Hopefully HiG may be able to support us in this respect, and various Carcassonne Central members have relatively good relationships with suppliers such as meeplesource and Basically Wooden, so this should all help.

Overall, my feeling is that we could put on something really very popular and fun based on what we already have here at CarcC in terms of people, skills and resources. And of course, masses of enthusiasm! We’re a long way off making anything happen though, and as happy as I am to take a lead in trying to get us a bit closer to this, it would be good to have some idea of what we were going to offer before we try to offer it to anyone!

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1822.0

Offline Paul

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2015, 04:38:15 AM »
Think it's safe to say there should be a time limit per turn.  ;D
World record holder for a single game of Carcassonne using 10 007 tiles!

Offline Decar

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2015, 05:01:56 AM »
I'm intrigued - but time limit on the weekend is tough for a lot of people who want to go any play other games [madness]!  When would the CarcChamps be held?

I was at the Hotel around 6:30-7pm on Saturday evening and a lot of people were milling about after the stalls had long closed sat in the hotel playing games with each other.  I wonder if this could be some kind of evening event hosted by CarcC - Given my wife and I had no idea who anyone was (except for one person by off chance), it may be a good way to encourage the smaller game groups (1s,2s and 3s) joining in with a game.

I did read somewhere that the events and stalls may be hosted elsewhere next year too in the NEC rather than the hotel so this dynamic may change.

I propose Core Box +  2-3 expansions + 2-3minis - 4 tables each with different combinations of expansions.

Just a thought: could the Tournament work by rotating players between the 4 tables - so no game is alike?

Offline loki

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2015, 05:28:49 AM »
Please see my comments under the Variant section
 Topic: Carcassonne custom deck
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 05:56:06 AM by MrNumbers, Reason: Link added »

Offline asparagus

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2015, 05:13:47 AM »
A base set and a couple of expansions is not really "mega-carcasonne". "Para-carcassonne" (or "side by carcassonne") would be a better term. I would not call anything mega-carcassonne until you are at the point of having to customize rules to make all the expansions fit together.

You could just run mega-carcassonne tables simultaneously and award prizes based on high score. No rounds.

Offline Decar

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2015, 06:07:52 AM »
I think we have to consider how long it takes to play.  At the Expo on Sunday, I only played 4 basic games between 10:30am and 3:30pm.

As much as playing with every expansion and mini would be amazing, I doubt we'd be able to organize the session logistically :(  Let alone as a formal competition.

What do people think about an evening-event where people can drop-in and give the game ago, much like Carcassonne-On-Tour events in Germany?  People could stay as long as they wanted and maybe we can have some appropriate gifts at the end of the event, or game winners.

I was also wondering about setting up teams of 4-5players and having a player assigned to a table, with each table having a different configuration of expansions.  After the first game completes perhaps the highest scoring team does to final.  That way there may be more time for longer games.

Either way, I'm thinking we'll call it:  "Carcassonne Tonight" and there will be Meeple-shaped canapes or cakes.

Offline loki

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2015, 07:23:11 AM »
OK , just to be clear I am not repeating what I said earlier about playing the game with the draw tiles face up.

However I would like to  mention that there is no need to play all of the tiles in an expansion in order to bring it's features into the game.  You can just add the builder, mayor, wagon, barn, big follower meeples and the game will be more interesting.

If you want to bring in the tower game play then you do not need all 18 tower tiles, just 4 or 6 tower tiles  will suffice.  You do not need all 3 types of trade goods to make this feature work, just one type will suffice.

When HiG published an expansion they had to include a fairly large number of tiles in order to justify the price they were charging.

I am only pointing this out in the interest of keeping the required play time to an acceptable level while allowing you to showcase the complexity of the game.  Mega interesting without being Mega long.

Offline ScottMoore

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2015, 08:24:48 AM »
Hi Dan et al.,

I'll leave you to discuss the details or your proposed event. It is going to be towards the end of this year, or even early 2016, when we start to make decisions on tournaments for the UK Games 2016, though we may have some discussion with the Expo organisers before then. If you'd like to run a formal tournament then let us (Halesowen Boardgamers) know in due course and we can discuss the when and how with you and with the Expo organisers. I can only speculate at this stage about a suitable time. We'll probably be running 2 or 3 tournaments on the Friday, possibly starting the first one at 2pm and the second at 2.30pm, as we did this year. If you ran a tournament starting in the morning and finished by 2pm or perhaps a little later, then you could use the same tables that we'll be using. This would also be the case if you ran a Saturday evening event, starting no earlier than 6pm. That's not to say that it wouldn't be possible to run your event at the same time as our tournaments (ideally on the Friday) - just that the Expo organisers would have to allocate you the extra tables. We may be running Carcassonne qualifiers on Saturday morning and Catan qualifiers on Saturday afternoon, followed by Carcassonne finals on Sunday morning and Catan finals on Sunday afternoon. The qualifiers will be big events (100+ for Catan, 50+ for Carcassonne). Or we may stick with the existing arrangement of Catan all day Saturday and Carcassonne on Sunday until mid-afternoon.

If you don't run a formal tournament (ie no ticket sales online in advance and at the Expo) then you'd be running a "demo" event. This would still need permission from the Expo organisers but, again, you might be able to utilise the tables assigned to the tournaments before and after they have finished.

Scott   

Offline danisthirty

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2015, 03:28:28 PM »
A base set and a couple of expansions is not really "mega-carcasonne". "Para-carcassonne" (or "side by carcassonne") would be a better term. I would not call anything mega-carcassonne until you are at the point of having to customize rules to make all the expansions fit together.

We had quite an interesting discussion about what people feel counts as "Mega Carcassonne" and the results were rather surprising (see here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=713.0). The main conclusion was that we didn't really agree on anything. Although, if you did run a game with every expansion available then the CAR ought to have all the answers for rule conflicts etc.

For me, the first five major expansions and half a dozen or so of the others (plus bridges and castles for each player) is about as Mega as I get...

@ScottMoore - Thanks for all the info, you're a handy man to know!  :). I think a demo event is probably more likely for us based on where we are at the moment, plus I wouldn't want to cause any confusion between our event and the main Carcassonne championship if there were more than one Carcassonne ticketed events. My feeling was that we'd focus on making it merely a fun event initially and see where it went from there...

Offline asparagus

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2015, 11:33:02 PM »
A base set and a couple of expansions is not really "mega-carcasonne". "Para-carcassonne" (or "side by carcassonne") would be a better term. I would not call anything mega-carcassonne until you are at the point of having to customize rules to make all the expansions fit together.

We had quite an interesting discussion about what people feel counts as "Mega Carcassonne" and the results were rather surprising (see here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=713.0). The main conclusion was that we didn't really agree on anything. Although, if you did run a game with every expansion available then the CAR ought to have all the answers for rule conflicts etc.

Alternatively you give up on the idea of it being a tournament. Each table is a separate and unique game. Essentially we would just be booking a Carcassonne room or couple of tables for the whole day or most of it and having some pre-arranged players.
For me, the first five major expansions and half a dozen or so of the others (plus bridges and castles for each player) is about as Mega as I get...

I am quite torn. On the one hand organizing a mega-carcassonne event at UK games expo was my idea. I spent a large part of 2014 planning for it. Back in 2014 just about all my posts (for example http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=812.msg10168#msg10168) were motivated by this plan. I went over the turn order in the CAR with a fine tooth comb. And other people's ideas are simply wrong.

On the other hand long before I got round to submitting the idea to the UK games expo website I had burnt out. If anyone does actually manage to run a "mega-carcassonne" competition then however much I disagree with it I am just going to shut  up and sign up. Actually doing something counts for a lot more than originally coming up with the idea or even being right about gaming metaphysics.

That said the way of distinguishing oneself from the main tournament is to just go for the biggest set of expansions possible.  Probably you cap it at five or six players but in the worst case you just run parallel games and just take whatever score they got. I would also book the table for the whole day. That way is less stressed and after the game you have a guaranteed spot for open gaming.

Edit:Also nominate a charity such as Doctors without borders.
1.) Participants get sponsorship forms.
2.) We seek corporate sponsorship. The event could be youtubed and tweeted so it's worth the while of the corporate sponsors.
3.) We make sure the money gets to the charity.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 12:55:15 AM by asparagus, Reason: charity »

Offline danisthirty

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2015, 08:45:52 AM »
Thanks for your comments asparagus, and welcome back to the forums after your break.  :)

Re: the “Mega Carcassonne” event you’d like to hold, I think there are a few fairly significant differences between this and the sort of event that I now have in mind (which has changed somewhat from the original posting due to subsequent thoughts and discussions). Obviously I can’t speak for how you’d envisioned your event being run, but despite a somewhat misleading topic heading here, I had something more fun-oriented and less serious in mind (i.e. not a formal competition, although possibly still with small spot prizes). Not that there isn’t anything fun about playing Carcassonne with all the expansions at once, but I believe there’s a lot to Carcassonne that many casual players don’t know about. And whilst playing with everything at once and remaining true to a complicated set of rules may be fine for some of them, I think there could be a lot of enjoyment to be had by more casual gamers just by being exposed to some of the more commonly available expansions (and a few of the less well-known ones too for good measure). As much as anything else it will be a relaxed way to meet other Carcassonne players at the UK Games Expo, play a few friendly games and do a bit of PR work for CarcC in the process!

With this in mind, I can't see any obvious or immediate reason why both events couldn't be run independently of each other. The more Carcassonne the better!  :(y)

Offline Decar

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2015, 09:14:01 AM »
How about a tagline:

"Carcassonne Tonight": A demo event hosted by members of Carcassonne fan-site Carcassonne Central.  Beginners and Pros welcome to enjoy an evening of playing Carcassonne with a selection of its many expansions.

Offline loki

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2015, 09:38:06 AM »
I think there could be a lot of enjoyment to be had by more casual gamers just by being exposed to some of the more commonly available expansions
commonly available expansions

sadly these days when you check out the stock in the local stores and online with z-man games, that is a bit of an oxymoron

Offline Decar

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2015, 09:40:57 AM »
Re-reading it I think I split-the-infinitive too  :'(

"the most common & available expansion"....perhaps

Offline danisthirty

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Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2015, 09:54:37 AM »
I think there could be a lot of enjoyment to be had by more casual gamers just by being exposed to some of the more commonly available expansions
commonly available expansions

sadly these days when you check out the stock in the local stores and online with z-man games, that is a bit of an oxymoron

Maybe you've already seen it, maybe you haven't, but having cobbled this together (with help from others) over the course of the day I've been pleasantly surprised to see how much is readily available, and mostly at quite reasonable prices too.  :)


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