Author Topic: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021  (Read 5079 times)

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2021, 11:25:43 PM »
"Negative scorings should not be considered" including the ransom for a prisoner? For City of Carcassonne.
Nothing about this?
Can you explain possible scenario?
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Offline NGC 54

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2021, 08:29:31 AM »
"Negative scorings should not be considered" including the ransom for a prisoner? For City of Carcassonne.
Nothing about this?
Can you explain possible scenario?
I (Red) lose 3 points, Blue receives 3 points. I do not receive any points, but another player (Blue) receives. Can I place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?
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Offline NGC 54

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2021, 03:28:03 AM »
"Negative scorings should not be considered" including the ransom for a prisoner? For City of Carcassonne.
Nothing about this?
Can you explain possible scenario?
I (Red) lose 3 points, Blue receives 3 points. I do not receive any points, but another player (Blue) receives. Can I place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?
This is an interaction between 2 major expansions.

Offline DrMeeple

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2021, 04:57:31 AM »
Ooh Looord be my strength…


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I mix expansions at my own risk.

Offline NGC 54

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2021, 10:26:38 AM »
If 2 red meeples are on a monastery and also the blue abbot, if the blue abbot is removed in step 2., the blue player still receives points?
Hi Ireneu,

Welcome to the forums. Hope you enjoy browsing all the stuff available...

Regarding your question, I agree with you in how the various scenarios would work... Flying Machines can lead to having several meeples (including abbots) placed on a monastery or on a garden. In this case abbots can benefit from partial scoring even not having the player the majority. When completed (or if incomplete at the end of the game), monasteries and gardens with several meeples would score applying the majority rule.

This is not covered in the official rules but it sounds right based on the current rules. I added some notes to WICA just to reflect this situation. Please check footnotes #10 in The Abbot:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot

...and footnote #8 in C2 Flying Machines:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier

...and footnot #9 in C1 Flying Machines:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier_(1st_edition)

Best regards!
The 3 points bonus is still not applied when removing the abbot in step 2.?
The 3 points bonus is still not applied when scoring the acrobat pyramid in step 2. or during final scoring?
To check:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13: Need update.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Fairy
Also some footnotes from Exp. 3 and 10 need to be checked.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2021, 05:26:47 AM »
If 2 red meeples are on a monastery and also the blue abbot, if the blue abbot is removed in step 2., the blue player still receives points?

Yes, removing the abbot has nothing to do with scoring a feature, so it does not take majority into consideration. When removing the abbot you are scoring the figure, not the feature.

Hi Ireneu,

Welcome to the forums. Hope you enjoy browsing all the stuff available...

Regarding your question, I agree with you in how the various scenarios would work... Flying Machines can lead to having several meeples (including abbots) placed on a monastery or on a garden. In this case abbots can benefit from partial scoring even not having the player the majority. When completed (or if incomplete at the end of the game), monasteries and gardens with several meeples would score applying the majority rule.

This is not covered in the official rules but it sounds right based on the current rules. I added some notes to WICA just to reflect this situation. Please check footnotes #10 in The Abbot:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot

...and footnote #8 in C2 Flying Machines:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier

...and footnot #9 in C1 Flying Machines:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier_(1st_edition)

Best regards!
The 3 points bonus is still not applied when removing the abbot in step 2.?

We don't know yet. Question sent to HiG on 7/2021 but no answer yet.

The 3 points bonus is still not applied when scoring the acrobat pyramid in step 2. or during final scoring?

We don't know yet. Question sent to HiG on 11/2021 but no answer yet.

To check:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13: Need update.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Fairy
Also some footnotes from Exp. 3 and 10 need to be checked.

I'm waiting fo the answers to be able to provide an official answer to all these questions dangling around for almost a year now.
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline NGC 54

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2021, 06:27:10 AM »
If 2 red meeples are on a monastery and also the blue abbot, if the blue abbot is removed in step 2., the blue player still receives points?

Yes, removing the abbot has nothing to do with scoring a feature, so it does not take majority into consideration. When removing the abbot you are scoring the figure, not the feature.

Hi Ireneu,

Welcome to the forums. Hope you enjoy browsing all the stuff available...

Regarding your question, I agree with you in how the various scenarios would work... Flying Machines can lead to having several meeples (including abbots) placed on a monastery or on a garden. In this case abbots can benefit from partial scoring even not having the player the majority. When completed (or if incomplete at the end of the game), monasteries and gardens with several meeples would score applying the majority rule.

This is not covered in the official rules but it sounds right based on the current rules. I added some notes to WICA just to reflect this situation. Please check footnotes #10 in The Abbot:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot

...and footnote #8 in C2 Flying Machines:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier

...and footnot #9 in C1 Flying Machines:

http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier_(1st_edition)

Best regards!
The 3 points bonus is still not applied when removing the abbot in step 2.?

We don't know yet. Question sent to HiG on 7/2021 but no answer yet.

The 3 points bonus is still not applied when scoring the acrobat pyramid in step 2. or during final scoring?

We don't know yet. Question sent to HiG on 11/2021 but no answer yet.

To check:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13: Need update.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Fairy
Also some footnotes from Exp. 3 and 10 need to be checked.

I'm waiting fo the answers to be able to provide an official answer to all these questions dangling around for almost a year now.
Quote
Yes, removing the abbot has nothing to do with scoring a feature, so it does not take majority into consideration. When removing the abbot you are scoring the figure, not the feature.
Officially confirmed?

Maybe WICA could contain some IconPadlock footnotes for the 3 points bonus.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2021, 06:59:24 AM »
The new rules (20th Anniversary Edition) assume the abbot is removed in 2. Placing a meeple and scored in 3. Scoring a feature. This overrides/contradicts the clarification about the immediate scroing of the abbot in 2. Placing a meeple as per this clarification:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13
Quote
This scoring occurs immediately during the 2. Placing a meeple phase when the abbot is removed. This effectively protects the abbot from the dragon and produces a scoring round for Messages. Afterwards, the normal scoring phase occurs. (3/2015)

This seems official now, but there is no official confirmation about the impact this change has on other actions triggered in 2. Placing a meeple (acrobat pyramid scoring, shepherd scoring and fruit actions), and their interactions with the dragon. I've been trying to get a clear answer to this issue since 1/2021 to no avail yet.

Besides it has some other ramifications such as the fairy 3-point scoring bonus (affecting the acrobat pyramids or not) and when do these delayed scorings take place:
* Step 3A and they are separate from the general scoring as the German rules of the 20th Anniversary Edition suggest?
* Step 3B and all delayed scorings plus th regular scorings can be scored in any order?
This has some impact on what sequences of scorings can be chosen to fool robbers, for example.

Add to all this, the open discussion about Messages: no separate rounds of scorings (as opposed to C1) -ok, simpler- and with negative points (can I get a message from a negative scoring?).

Hope HiG decides to shed some light on all this soon.

Offline NGC 54

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2021, 07:05:23 AM »
I wanted to know if the fact that majority is not applicable when removing the abbot in step 2. (2 and/or 3A?) is officially confirmed. I do not find nothing about this at https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#Footnotes.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2021, 07:12:37 AM »
This is what we got:
https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4927.msg72665#msg72665

The following sentence is the key to everything:
Quote
You always score the abbot (on the feature) never the feature itself.

This means no majority applied when removing and scoring the abbot.

I sent this question to HiG in 7/2021 so they could double confirm. Still waiting for an answer as you may imagine. :-\

Offline NGC 54

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Re: Clarification of rules (Messages) - with HiG - 29 01 2021
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2021, 07:21:11 AM »
This is what we got:
https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4927.msg72665#msg72665

The following sentence is the key to everything:
Quote
You always score the abbot (on the feature) never the feature itself.

This means no majority applied when removing and scoring the abbot.

I sent this question to HiG in 7/2021 so they could double confirm. Still waiting for an answer as you may imagine. :-\
Ok, thanks.


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