Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: Meepledrone on October 17, 2021, 05:37:00 AM
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In January, we got the following clarification from Johannes (HiG) on the HiG Discord server. I was waiting for further clarifications about the same topic, but it's taking a long time as you all can see. So I finally decided to post the snippet of information we got.
Following Kettlefish's tradition...
Question in BLUE
Answer in GREEN
Still open in RED
My own comments in MAROON
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[Q1] You only receive a message if your messenger or your scoring meeple end up on a dark space after scoring all your points, right? I mean, you don't take into consideration any intermediate scorings due to several completed features, but only your last move of your scoring figures.
[A1] Yes, you only take messages with your last movement on the scoreboard. But there is a edge case: if you get points from the messages that grant you another message, you will get those as well. This mentioned in the Big Box 6 rules.
This means that all the additional rounds of scoring explained in the clarifications by Georg Wild in 5/2014 and 10/2014 are now declared obsolete:
* Immediate scoring and round of scoring for Windroses and Fairy point (05/2014):
https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=751.msg8193#msg8193 (https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=751.msg8193#msg8193)
* Existing rounds of scoring (10/2014):
https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1113.msg13390#msg13390 (https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1113.msg13390#msg13390)
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Before bazaar?
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At least, now is easier to play with Messages.
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Also taking into account all scorings from 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B-1, 2B-2 and 2C?
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That is a great clarification, making the game a lot easier.
Now one question, what if I move my messenger for correct windrose placement, my messenger ends on a dark space, then I score a city with my scoring meeple and it doesn't end on a dark space.
Do I get a message since the last movement of my messenger was to a dark space, or not since the last overall movement wasn't to a dark space? (I suggest the second option to make it easier, the last movement has to be to a dark space).
And what if the last movement was backwards and ended up on a dark space (got 2 points for not activating a 20 anniversary tile, then lost 2 for protecting a meeple from peasant revolts)?
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Before bazaar?
Yes.
And I would do it after Catapult (I sent a question to HiG about this)
At least, now is easier to play with Messages.
Certainly!
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Also taking into account all scorings from 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B-1, 2B-2 and 2C?
Yes, Just the final position of the scoring figures is taken into consideration if any of them moved. This leaves an open question about scoring negative points (question sent to HiG about this too).
On another note, after a long conversation on Discord (about which I also sent questions to validate their answers), they said that:
* Scorings happening in 1A, 1B, 1C and (allegedly) 2A happen immediately.
* Scorings triggered in 2B-1 and 2C are delayed and are scored in 3 (not specified when for now: 3A for the sake of simplicity? 3B along with features scored?). This was important for the dragon (question not fully answered since January and sent again to HiG)
* Scorings happening in 3B, 3C and 4A scored in their respective steps.
This also has some side effects on points considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne (question sent to HiG about this too):
* Positive scorings happening in 1A, 1B and 4A (happening after sending a meeple to Carcassonne) should not be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Positive scorings happening in 1C, 3A?, 3B, 3C should be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Negative scorings should not be considered.
So as you can see, many moving parts I wanted to clarify. But let's work with what we have so far.
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That is a great clarification, making the game a lot easier.
Indeed. It's great and matched the initial approach on BB4 and BB6. What makes me think why they conveyed such a complicated approach in the clarifications from 5/2014 and 10/2014.
Now one question, what if I move my messenger for correct windrose placement, my messenger ends on a dark space, then I score a city with my scoring meeple and it doesn't end on a dark space.
Do I get a message since the last movement of my messenger was to a dark space, or not since the last overall movement wasn't to a dark space? (I suggest the second option to make it easier, the last movement has to be to a dark space).
You have to consider which scorings figures you moved during your turn, and check the last position of each of them on the scoreboard. In this case, you moved both and one of them ended up on a dark space, so you receive a message.
This means, you have to evaluate your whole turn as one round of scoring even if the scoring events happen in different steps.
And what if the last movement was backwards and ended up on a dark space (got 2 points for not activating a 20 anniversary tile, then lost 2 for protecting a meeple from peasant revolts)?
We don't have an official answer.
I also asked HiG if you receive a message when landing on dark spaces after scoring negative points. No answer yet.
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Also taking into account all scorings from 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B-1, 2B-2 and 2C?
Yes, Just the final position of the scoring figures is taken into consideration if any of them moved. This leaves an open question about scoring negative points (question sent to HiG about this too).
On another note, after a long conversation on Discord (about which I also sent questions to validate their answers), they said that:
* Scorings happening in 1A, 1B, 1C and (allegedly) 2A happen immediately.
* Scorings triggered in 2B-1 and 2C are delayed and are scored in 3 (not specified when for now: 3A for the sake of simplicity? 3B along with features scored?). This was important for the dragon (question not fully answered since January and sent again to HiG)
* Scorings happening in 3B, 3C and 4A scored in their respective steps.
This also has some side effects on points considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne (question sent to HiG about this too):
* Positive scorings happening in 1A, 1B and 4A (happening after sending a meeple to Carcassonne) should not be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Positive scorings happening in 1C, 3A?, 3B, 3C should be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Negative scorings should not be considered.
So as you can see, many moving parts I wanted to clarify. But let's work with what we have so far.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#Harvestiː "immediately" and in 2. Placing a meeple.
What are the corect answers?
1. You score your shepherd:
a) You remove the shepherd and the sheep in step 2C, but score the points in step 3.
b) You remove the shepherd and the sheep in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
2. You score your abbot:
a) You remove the abbot in step 2B-1, but score the points in step 3.
b) You remove the abbot in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
3. You score a pyramid of acrobatsː
a) You remove the acrobats in step 2B-1, but the points are scored in step 3.
b) You remove the acrobats in step 3 and the points are scored in step 3.
3. You harvestː
a) You place the token in your supply in step 2C, but score the points in step 3.
b) You place the token in your supply in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
a) You place the token in your supply in step 2C, but score the points in step 2C.
b) You place the token in your supply in step 3 and score the points in step 2C.
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Builder and messages; the second part of the turn has messages like the first part?
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And what if the last movement was backwards and ended up on a dark space (got 2 points for not activating a 20 anniversary tile, then lost 2 for protecting a meeple from peasant revolts)?
The robber do not gain negative points to players: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-5.
Anyways, it would be (somewhat) weird to receive a message for losing point(s).
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Also taking into account all scorings from 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B-1, 2B-2 and 2C?
Yes, Just the final position of the scoring figures is taken into consideration if any of them moved. This leaves an open question about scoring negative points (question sent to HiG about this too).
On another note, after a long conversation on Discord (about which I also sent questions to validate their answers), they said that:
* Scorings happening in 1A, 1B, 1C and (allegedly) 2A happen immediately.
* Scorings triggered in 2B-1 and 2C are delayed and are scored in 3 (not specified when for now: 3A for the sake of simplicity? 3B along with features scored?). This was important for the dragon (question not fully answered since January and sent again to HiG)
* Scorings happening in 3B, 3C and 4A scored in their respective steps.
This also has some side effects on points considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne (question sent to HiG about this too):
* Positive scorings happening in 1A, 1B and 4A (happening after sending a meeple to Carcassonne) should not be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Positive scorings happening in 1C, 3A?, 3B, 3C should be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Negative scorings should not be considered.
So as you can see, many moving parts I wanted to clarify. But let's work with what we have so far.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#Harvestiː "immediately" and in 2. Placing a meeple.
No matter if the rules say immediately, HiG state no points are scored in 2. Placing a meeple. So the only option I see -and therefore my question to HiG- is that actions take place in this phase but points are scored in 3. Scoring a feature. No answer yet though after several months.
I quoted the rules to them stating the scoring happened immediatel,y and even the clarification about removing and scoring the abbot, that was crystal clear about removing and scoring the abbot in 2. Placing a meeple, but they didn't come to clear conclusion:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13 (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13)
The scoring of the abbot scoring occurs immediately during the 2. Placing a meeple phase when the abbot is removed. This effectively protects the abbot from the dragon and produces a scoring round for Messages. Afterwards, the normal scoring phase occurs. (3/2015)
This means the HiG representative was contradicting the aforementioned clarifications but never answered my initial question completely. I was wanted them to confirm that when placing a dragon tile, you could remove and score the abbot before the dragon moves, so you could prevent the dragon from eating your abbot. No clear answer yet besides the scoring does not happen in 2. Placing a meeple.
What are the corect answers?
1. You score your shepherd:
a) You remove the shepherd and the sheep in step 2C, but score the points in step 3.
b) You remove the shepherd and the sheep in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
2. You score your abbot:
a) You remove the abbot in step 2B-1, but score the points in step 3.
b) You remove the abbot in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
3. You score a pyramid of acrobatsː
a) You remove the acrobats in step 2B-1, but the points are scored in step 3.
b) You remove the acrobats in step 3 and the points are scored in step 3.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
3. You harvestː
a) You place the token in your supply in step 2C, but score the points in step 3.
b) You place the token in your supply in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
a) You place the token in your supply in step 2C, but score the points in step 2C.
b) You place the token in your supply in step 3 and score the points in step 2C.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
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Builder and messages; the second part of the turn has messages like the first part?
Yes, this was already clarified in the rules:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Traders_.26_Builders (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Messages#Traders_.26_Builders)
Getting a double turn with the builder: You can draw a message tile after each 3. Scoring a Feature action, so long as either your meeple or messenger is moving to and stopping on a dark space each time.
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And what if the last movement was backwards and ended up on a dark space (got 2 points for not activating a 20 anniversary tile, then lost 2 for protecting a meeple from peasant revolts)?
The robber do not gain negative points to players: https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Robbers#cite_note-5.
Anyways, it would be (somewhat) weird to receive a message for losing point(s).
Yes, that is correct, but the issue does not affect robbers but messages. If your scoring meeple (or your messenger) moves backwards on the scoreboard and ends up on a dark space, should you receive a message?
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I have simplified the rules affecting Messages according to this clarification from 1/2021. This affected:
* Messages
* Order of Play
* Scoring During the Game
* Scoring After the Game
In C2 now there is only one round of Messages in Step 4A after the Catapult (so one Message in a normal turn or one Message per turn part in a double turn). C1 stays the same.
This said, I haven't moved the actions scored immediately in 2. Placing a meeple until now, since there is no clear answer from HiG. Let's see if they clarify their position soon.
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Also taking into account all scorings from 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B-1, 2B-2 and 2C?
Yes, Just the final position of the scoring figures is taken into consideration if any of them moved. This leaves an open question about scoring negative points (question sent to HiG about this too).
On another note, after a long conversation on Discord (about which I also sent questions to validate their answers), they said that:
* Scorings happening in 1A, 1B, 1C and (allegedly) 2A happen immediately.
* Scorings triggered in 2B-1 and 2C are delayed and are scored in 3 (not specified when for now: 3A for the sake of simplicity? 3B along with features scored?). This was important for the dragon (question not fully answered since January and sent again to HiG)
* Scorings happening in 3B, 3C and 4A scored in their respective steps.
This also has some side effects on points considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne (question sent to HiG about this too):
* Positive scorings happening in 1A, 1B and 4A (happening after sending a meeple to Carcassonne) should not be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Positive scorings happening in 1C, 3A?, 3B, 3C should be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Negative scorings should not be considered.
So as you can see, many moving parts I wanted to clarify. But let's work with what we have so far.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#Harvestiː "immediately" and in 2. Placing a meeple.
No matter if the rules say immediately, HiG state no points are scored in 2. Placing a meeple. So the only option I see -and therefore my question to HiG- is that actions take place in this phase but points are scored in 3. Scoring a feature. No answer yet though after several months.
I quoted the rules to them stating the scoring happened immediatel,y and even the clarification about removing and scoring the abbot, that was crystal clear about removing and scoring the abbot in 2. Placing a meeple, but they didn't come to clear conclusion:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13 (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13)
The scoring of the abbot scoring occurs immediately during the 2. Placing a meeple phase when the abbot is removed. This effectively protects the abbot from the dragon and produces a scoring round for Messages. Afterwards, the normal scoring phase occurs. (3/2015)
This means the HiG representative was contradicting the aforementioned clarifications but never answered my initial question completely. I was wanted them to confirm that when placing a dragon tile, you could remove and score the abbot before the dragon moves, so you could prevent the dragon from eating your abbot. No clear answer yet besides the scoring does not happen in 2. Placing a meeple.
What are the corect answers?
1. You score your shepherd:
a) You remove the shepherd and the sheep in step 2C, but score the points in step 3.
b) You remove the shepherd and the sheep in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
2. You score your abbot:
a) You remove the abbot in step 2B-1, but score the points in step 3.
b) You remove the abbot in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
3. You score a pyramid of acrobatsː
a) You remove the acrobats in step 2B-1, but the points are scored in step 3.
b) You remove the acrobats in step 3 and the points are scored in step 3.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
3. You harvestː
a) You place the token in your supply in step 2C, but score the points in step 3.
b) You place the token in your supply in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
a) You place the token in your supply in step 2C, but score the points in step 2C.
b) You place the token in your supply in step 3 and score the points in step 2C.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
HiG created a paradox...
Also taking into account all scorings from 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B-1, 2B-2 and 2C?
Yes, Just the final position of the scoring figures is taken into consideration if any of them moved. This leaves an open question about scoring negative points (question sent to HiG about this too).
On another note, after a long conversation on Discord (about which I also sent questions to validate their answers), they said that:
* Scorings happening in 1A, 1B, 1C and (allegedly) 2A happen immediately.
* Scorings triggered in 2B-1 and 2C are delayed and are scored in 3 (not specified when for now: 3A for the sake of simplicity? 3B along with features scored?). This was important for the dragon (question not fully answered since January and sent again to HiG)
* Scorings happening in 3B, 3C and 4A scored in their respective steps.
This also has some side effects on points considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne (question sent to HiG about this too):
* Positive scorings happening in 1A, 1B and 4A (happening after sending a meeple to Carcassonne) should not be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Positive scorings happening in 1C, 3A?, 3B, 3C should be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Negative scorings should not be considered.
So as you can see, many moving parts I wanted to clarify. But let's work with what we have so far.
So the requirements for placing a meeple in the City of Carcassonne ignores the point from fairy, the points from gifts, the negative points from peasant revolts (default, as they are negative), the bazaar points, prisoner ransom and the catapult points?
What about https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4986.0?
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HiG was stressing that you consider those points scored after the tile is placed. But this means including points not related directly to the tile just placed, such as the abbot or an acrobat pyramid (making little sense to me). Before all this, we were assuming that sending a meeple to Carcassone only considered those points scored in steps 3B and 3C. Now things get tangled due to the scorings allegedly deferred from points triggered in 2. Placing a meeple
Like I said, IMHO too many unaswered questions and rather a tunnel vision in their responses so far. No global view of the global picture and the implications of their clarifications, so each answer connects to another topic that unleashes a spiralling number of related issues.
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Also taking into account all scorings from 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B-1, 2B-2 and 2C?
Yes, Just the final position of the scoring figures is taken into consideration if any of them moved. This leaves an open question about scoring negative points (question sent to HiG about this too).
On another note, after a long conversation on Discord (about which I also sent questions to validate their answers), they said that:
* Scorings happening in 1A, 1B, 1C and (allegedly) 2A happen immediately.
* Scorings triggered in 2B-1 and 2C are delayed and are scored in 3 (not specified when for now: 3A for the sake of simplicity? 3B along with features scored?). This was important for the dragon (question not fully answered since January and sent again to HiG)
* Scorings happening in 3B, 3C and 4A scored in their respective steps.
This also has some side effects on points considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne (question sent to HiG about this too):
* Positive scorings happening in 1A, 1B and 4A (happening after sending a meeple to Carcassonne) should not be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Positive scorings happening in 1C, 3A?, 3B, 3C should be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Negative scorings should not be considered.
So as you can see, many moving parts I wanted to clarify. But let's work with what we have so far.
"Negative scorings should not be considered" including the ransom for a prisoner?
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Yep... but since your whole turn is a long round of scoring, how can you exclude its effect on your scoring figures?
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That is a great clarification, making the game a lot easier.
Indeed. It's great and matched the initial approach on BB4 and BB6. What makes me think why they conveyed such a complicated approach in the clarifications from 5/2014 and 10/2014.
Now one question, what if I move my messenger for correct windrose placement, my messenger ends on a dark space, then I score a city with my scoring meeple and it doesn't end on a dark space.
Do I get a message since the last movement of my messenger was to a dark space, or not since the last overall movement wasn't to a dark space? (I suggest the second option to make it easier, the last movement has to be to a dark space).
You have to consider which scorings figures you moved during your turn, and check the last position of each of them on the scoreboard. In this case, you moved both and one of them ended up on a dark space, so you receive a message.
This means, you have to evaluate your whole turn as one round of scoring even if the scoring events happen in different steps.
And what if the last movement was backwards and ended up on a dark space (got 2 points for not activating a 20 anniversary tile, then lost 2 for protecting a meeple from peasant revolts)?
We don't have an official answer.
I also asked HiG if you receive a message when landing on dark spaces after scoring negative points. No answer yet.
I think that we can work with idea that you are rewarded when receive message. So if player score after turn is greater that before his turn. Dark space represent receiving of message. If it's smaller or same (negative points like ransom payment, rebuy of meeple from bads or Vodyanoy or person revolt payment) then not receiving message.
Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku
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That may be the easiest solution, I like it :yellow-meeple:
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I like it too. This means the order of scoring is irrelevant when combining positive and negative scorings in the same turn. You just consider your final position on the scoreboard compared with your initial position. :(y) :(y)
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Yeah. Doesn't matter order. But final score.
In other words
Scoringmeeple on position 32.
You have tile for finish road with score +5.
Than you have 37
But you remove one meeple from Vodyanoy by -2 points.
Final position 35 - dark space.
That 35 is greater then 32 you are rewarded by rceiving message.
Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku
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Yeah. Doesn't matter order. But final score.
In other words
Scoringmeeple on position 32.
You have tile for finish road with score +5.
Than you have 37
But you remove one meeple from Vodyanoy by -2 points.
Final position 35 - dark space.
That 35 is greater then 32 you are rewarded by rceiving message.
Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku
That would be the idea... But one thing: you don't pay any points to remove a meeple from the Vodyanoy tile (your penalty is that you cannot do any other action in Step 2B-1). You lose 2 points per meeple still on the Vodyanoy tile at the end of the game.
Carcassonne93 suggested this too but I forgot to clarify this point earlier. :'(
Please check the rules here:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition)#Vodyanoy (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Russian_Promos_(1st_edition)#Vodyanoy)
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That's true. Need to find any "more real" example :D
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"Negative scorings should not be considered" including the ransom for a prisoner? For City of Carcassonne.
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Also taking into account all scorings from 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B-1, 2B-2 and 2C?
Yes, Just the final position of the scoring figures is taken into consideration if any of them moved. This leaves an open question about scoring negative points (question sent to HiG about this too).
On another note, after a long conversation on Discord (about which I also sent questions to validate their answers), they said that:
* Scorings happening in 1A, 1B, 1C and (allegedly) 2A happen immediately.
* Scorings triggered in 2B-1 and 2C are delayed and are scored in 3 (not specified when for now: 3A for the sake of simplicity? 3B along with features scored?). This was important for the dragon (question not fully answered since January and sent again to HiG)
* Scorings happening in 3B, 3C and 4A scored in their respective steps.
This also has some side effects on points considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne (question sent to HiG about this too):
* Positive scorings happening in 1A, 1B and 4A (happening after sending a meeple to Carcassonne) should not be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Positive scorings happening in 1C, 3A?, 3B, 3C should be considered when sending a meeple to Carcassonne.
* Negative scorings should not be considered.
So as you can see, many moving parts I wanted to clarify. But let's work with what we have so far.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Fruit-Bearing_Trees#Harvestiː "immediately" and in 2. Placing a meeple.
No matter if the rules say immediately, HiG state no points are scored in 2. Placing a meeple. So the only option I see -and therefore my question to HiG- is that actions take place in this phase but points are scored in 3. Scoring a feature. No answer yet though after several months.
I quoted the rules to them stating the scoring happened immediatel,y and even the clarification about removing and scoring the abbot, that was crystal clear about removing and scoring the abbot in 2. Placing a meeple, but they didn't come to clear conclusion:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13 (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13)
The scoring of the abbot scoring occurs immediately during the 2. Placing a meeple phase when the abbot is removed. This effectively protects the abbot from the dragon and produces a scoring round for Messages. Afterwards, the normal scoring phase occurs. (3/2015)
This means the HiG representative was contradicting the aforementioned clarifications but never answered my initial question completely. I was wanted them to confirm that when placing a dragon tile, you could remove and score the abbot before the dragon moves, so you could prevent the dragon from eating your abbot. No clear answer yet besides the scoring does not happen in 2. Placing a meeple.
What are the corect answers?
1. You score your shepherd:
a) You remove the shepherd and the sheep in step 2C, but score the points in step 3.
b) You remove the shepherd and the sheep in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
2. You score your abbot:
a) You remove the abbot in step 2B-1, but score the points in step 3.
b) You remove the abbot in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
3. You score a pyramid of acrobatsː
a) You remove the acrobats in step 2B-1, but the points are scored in step 3.
b) You remove the acrobats in step 3 and the points are scored in step 3.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
3. You harvestː
a) You place the token in your supply in step 2C, but score the points in step 3.
b) You place the token in your supply in step 3 and score the points in step 3.
a) You place the token in your supply in step 2C, but score the points in step 2C.
b) You place the token in your supply in step 3 and score the points in step 2C.
The reply by HiG hints that answer should be a)
We should play with scoring in 2B-1 and 2C or 3A? Also, why this would still influence the gameplay anymore, as the messages were moved at the end of phase 3?
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The phase has no impact on Messages for the time being, but it is relevat for robbers, since you could use any scorings delayed from 2. Placing a meeple to prevent a robber from stealing other points from you in Step 3B.
No answer to this conundrum yet.
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"Negative scorings should not be considered" including the ransom for a prisoner? For City of Carcassonne.
Nothing about this?
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"Negative scorings should not be considered" including the ransom for a prisoner? For City of Carcassonne.
Nothing about this?
Can you explain possible scenario?
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"Negative scorings should not be considered" including the ransom for a prisoner? For City of Carcassonne.
Nothing about this?
Can you explain possible scenario?
I (Red) lose 3 points, Blue receives 3 points. I do not receive any points, but another player (Blue) receives. Can I place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?
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"Negative scorings should not be considered" including the ransom for a prisoner? For City of Carcassonne.
Nothing about this?
Can you explain possible scenario?
I (Red) lose 3 points, Blue receives 3 points. I do not receive any points, but another player (Blue) receives. Can I place a meeple in the City of Carcassonne?
This is an interaction between 2 major expansions.
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Ooh Looord be my strength…
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If 2 red meeples are on a monastery and also the blue abbot, if the blue abbot is removed in step 2., the blue player still receives points?
Hi Ireneu,
Welcome to the forums. Hope you enjoy browsing all the stuff available...
Regarding your question, I agree with you in how the various scenarios would work... Flying Machines can lead to having several meeples (including abbots) placed on a monastery or on a garden. In this case abbots can benefit from partial scoring even not having the player the majority. When completed (or if incomplete at the end of the game), monasteries and gardens with several meeples would score applying the majority rule.
This is not covered in the official rules but it sounds right based on the current rules. I added some notes to WICA just to reflect this situation. Please check footnotes #10 in The Abbot:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot)
...and footnote #8 in C2 Flying Machines:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier)
...and footnot #9 in C1 Flying Machines:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier_(1st_edition))
Best regards!
The 3 points bonus is still not applied when removing the abbot in step 2.?
The 3 points bonus is still not applied when scoring the acrobat pyramid in step 2. or during final scoring?
To check:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13: Need update.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Fairy
Also some footnotes from Exp. 3 and 10 need to be checked.
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If 2 red meeples are on a monastery and also the blue abbot, if the blue abbot is removed in step 2., the blue player still receives points?
Yes, removing the abbot has nothing to do with scoring a feature, so it does not take majority into consideration. When removing the abbot you are scoring the figure, not the feature.
Hi Ireneu,
Welcome to the forums. Hope you enjoy browsing all the stuff available...
Regarding your question, I agree with you in how the various scenarios would work... Flying Machines can lead to having several meeples (including abbots) placed on a monastery or on a garden. In this case abbots can benefit from partial scoring even not having the player the majority. When completed (or if incomplete at the end of the game), monasteries and gardens with several meeples would score applying the majority rule.
This is not covered in the official rules but it sounds right based on the current rules. I added some notes to WICA just to reflect this situation. Please check footnotes #10 in The Abbot:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot)
...and footnote #8 in C2 Flying Machines:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier)
...and footnot #9 in C1 Flying Machines:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier_(1st_edition))
Best regards!
The 3 points bonus is still not applied when removing the abbot in step 2.?
We don't know yet. Question sent to HiG on 7/2021 but no answer yet.
The 3 points bonus is still not applied when scoring the acrobat pyramid in step 2. or during final scoring?
We don't know yet. Question sent to HiG on 11/2021 but no answer yet.
To check:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13: Need update.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Fairy
Also some footnotes from Exp. 3 and 10 need to be checked.
I'm waiting fo the answers to be able to provide an official answer to all these questions dangling around for almost a year now.
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If 2 red meeples are on a monastery and also the blue abbot, if the blue abbot is removed in step 2., the blue player still receives points?
Yes, removing the abbot has nothing to do with scoring a feature, so it does not take majority into consideration. When removing the abbot you are scoring the figure, not the feature.
Hi Ireneu,
Welcome to the forums. Hope you enjoy browsing all the stuff available...
Regarding your question, I agree with you in how the various scenarios would work... Flying Machines can lead to having several meeples (including abbots) placed on a monastery or on a garden. In this case abbots can benefit from partial scoring even not having the player the majority. When completed (or if incomplete at the end of the game), monasteries and gardens with several meeples would score applying the majority rule.
This is not covered in the official rules but it sounds right based on the current rules. I added some notes to WICA just to reflect this situation. Please check footnotes #10 in The Abbot:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot)
...and footnote #8 in C2 Flying Machines:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier)
...and footnot #9 in C1 Flying Machines:
http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier_(1st_edition) (http://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Flier_(1st_edition))
Best regards!
The 3 points bonus is still not applied when removing the abbot in step 2.?
We don't know yet. Question sent to HiG on 7/2021 but no answer yet.
The 3 points bonus is still not applied when scoring the acrobat pyramid in step 2. or during final scoring?
We don't know yet. Question sent to HiG on 11/2021 but no answer yet.
To check:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13: Need update.
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Under_the_Big_Top#Acrobat_tiles_and_acrobats
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Princess_and_The_Dragon#Fairy
Also some footnotes from Exp. 3 and 10 need to be checked.
I'm waiting fo the answers to be able to provide an official answer to all these questions dangling around for almost a year now.
Yes, removing the abbot has nothing to do with scoring a feature, so it does not take majority into consideration. When removing the abbot you are scoring the figure, not the feature.
Officially confirmed?
Maybe WICA could contain some IconPadlock footnotes for the 3 points bonus.
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The new rules (20th Anniversary Edition) assume the abbot is removed in 2. Placing a meeple and scored in 3. Scoring a feature. This overrides/contradicts the clarification about the immediate scroing of the abbot in 2. Placing a meeple as per this clarification:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13 (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#cite_note-13)
This scoring occurs immediately during the 2. Placing a meeple phase when the abbot is removed. This effectively protects the abbot from the dragon and produces a scoring round for Messages. Afterwards, the normal scoring phase occurs. (3/2015)
This seems official now, but there is no official confirmation about the impact this change has on other actions triggered in 2. Placing a meeple (acrobat pyramid scoring, shepherd scoring and fruit actions), and their interactions with the dragon. I've been trying to get a clear answer to this issue since 1/2021 to no avail yet.
Besides it has some other ramifications such as the fairy 3-point scoring bonus (affecting the acrobat pyramids or not) and when do these delayed scorings take place:
* Step 3A and they are separate from the general scoring as the German rules of the 20th Anniversary Edition suggest?
* Step 3B and all delayed scorings plus th regular scorings can be scored in any order?
This has some impact on what sequences of scorings can be chosen to fool robbers, for example.
Add to all this, the open discussion about Messages: no separate rounds of scorings (as opposed to C1) -ok, simpler- and with negative points (can I get a message from a negative scoring?).
Hope HiG decides to shed some light on all this soon.
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I wanted to know if the fact that majority is not applicable when removing the abbot in step 2. (2 and/or 3A?) is officially confirmed. I do not find nothing about this at https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_Abbot#Footnotes.
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This is what we got:
https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4927.msg72665#msg72665 (https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4927.msg72665#msg72665)
The following sentence is the key to everything:
You always score the abbot (on the feature) never the feature itself.
This means no majority applied when removing and scoring the abbot.
I sent this question to HiG in 7/2021 so they could double confirm. Still waiting for an answer as you may imagine. :-\
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This is what we got:
https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4927.msg72665#msg72665 (https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4927.msg72665#msg72665)
The following sentence is the key to everything:
You always score the abbot (on the feature) never the feature itself.
This means no majority applied when removing and scoring the abbot.
I sent this question to HiG in 7/2021 so they could double confirm. Still waiting for an answer as you may imagine. :-\
Ok, thanks.