Author Topic: Guerilla farming  (Read 859 times)

Offline Allograft

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Guerilla farming
« on: March 03, 2021, 09:49:56 AM »
Okay, farmers. So, let's say that there's Barn A on a field/meadow with a number of cities. Further, Farmer B is on an independent field/meadow. At the point in the time that Farmer B's field is connected with Barn A's field, then Farmer B's meeple is scored as though it would be at the end of the game and returned the stock. Barn A remains. Now, let's say that the player who just scored with Farmer B places a new Farmer C on an independent field. A few turns later, Farmer C's field connects Barn A's field. At that point, Farmer C must be scored and returned. In this way, a creative player can really use the barn to score famers/pigs multiple times for the same completed cities. I am aware that the same player who controls the barn can also control the farmers, creating opportunities throughout the game and then again at the end. Am I correct that this is permissible? -  :pink-meeple:

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5093.0
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 11:33:30 AM by Allograft »

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Guerilla farming
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2021, 12:11:27 PM »
This is not correct
When field with Farmer B is connected to field with Barn A, Fermer B is not scored as on end game. It get's only 1 poin per city on connected fields!

Then logic is correct. Player can easily gets points. But effectively it's good only for player which owns Barn A. Because when connect field to field with Barn, at this moment, player get's 1 point per city but for every from attachet field, Barn scores 4 points.

So when it's big game with 20-30 cities, every join brings huge number of points. In small game or when Barn is in small farm, benefit of joining fields can be contraproductive.

Offline Allograft

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Re: Guerilla farming
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2021, 12:46:47 PM »
Carcassonne Standard 7.4, page 65?

"Any farmers already on the farm are scored
immediately, in the same way as at the end of the
game. That is, the player or players with the
majority of farmers score the usual 3 points for every completed city.
whether the owner of the barn is involved in scoring or not.

Then the players return the farmers to their supply."

In particular, see footnote 185.

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Guerilla farming
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2021, 01:35:17 PM »
Well. These rules are not yet valid.
Check current known rules on www.wikicarpedia.com section: Barn / Scoring a feature / FARMER SCORING BY FIELD CONNECTION
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#3._Scoring_a_feature_3

Your mentioned CAR is several years old :(

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Guerilla farming
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2021, 02:01:22 PM »
And I will not talk how HiG ruin all previous classification of rules :)

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Offline Allograft

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Re: Guerilla farming
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2021, 02:38:49 PM »
Too be fair, HiG probably changed the rules because of cut-throat players like us. It's funny, I just told my wife because I ran that play for connecting a farm and collecting points per 7.4 like 3 times last night. She said, "I knew you were cheating" -  :pink-meeple:

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Guerilla farming
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2021, 11:01:53 PM »
Too be fair, HiG probably changed the rules because of cut-throat players like us. It's funny, I just told my wife because I ran that play for connecting a farm and collecting points per 7.4 like 3 times last night. She said, "I knew you were cheating" -  :pink-meeple:
:D
I used to also. In older versions of JCloisterZone it was possible. When new release 5.x checked, I wrote to author, that it's bug. And I discover also new rules :)

Offline ny1050220

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Re: Guerilla farming
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2021, 09:54:31 AM »
Carcassonne Standard 7.4, page 65?

"Any farmers already on the farm are scored immediately, in the same way as at the end of the game."

This sentence does not apply to farmers connected to a barn via the placement of a tile. It applies to farmers who are scored by the placement of the barn. Compare the yellow and red farmers in the diagrams in page 65 and 66, as well as the section titles in those two pages, "placing a barn" vs "a farm is connected". I hope this helps.

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Guerilla farming
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2021, 10:16:02 AM »
Carcassonne Standard 7.4, page 65?

"Any farmers already on the farm are scored immediately, in the same way as at the end of the game."

This sentence does not apply to farmers connected to a barn via the placement of a tile. It applies to farmers who are scored by the placement of the barn. Compare the yellow and red farmers in the diagrams in page 65 and 66, as well as the section titles in those two pages, "placing a barn" vs "a farm is connected". I hope this helps.

Back to CAR.
CAR is outdated when playing C2.
But when playing C1, this can be source for game play, because last big expansion was Sheep and Hills and Big Box 2014 and for this case, it is still valid.

But when play C2, then some rules changed, some removed, some classification not valid yet.

Good source for Carcassonne rules is WiciCarpedia, which is based on CAR, but include all new expansions, all new classification. And removed all previous classifications. Thanks @Meepledrone and all other creatord working on other languages on this page.

What changed is, that HiG really try to simplify rules as much as possible.

When plaing C2 it's save to play "strict" rules, because current approach to rules by HiG is, that what written it's valid. Everything other is speculations. When they write Road/City/Monastery they mean features from basic game. So if we walk about German Monasteries, they are replacement of Monasteries in Basic game, but it's not Monastery. So all rules from other expansions applied to Monastery is not automatically valid for German Monasteries (or Japanese Buildings of course).

We are still waiting for current answers by HiG which are postponed (two weeks), because there are still "rules" gaps in rules for interactions for Large Expansions playing with BigBox 2017.

As HiG uses for rules what we call "Price Directive", There will be no rules classifications for interaction between mini-mini expansions or mini-large expansions.

So we are going on thing ice, we are only able to used previous C1 classifications, which look like that most is then are not valid now.

Conclusion:

For C1 use CAR, for C2 use WikiCarpedia and house rules :D

Offline Allograft

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Re: Guerilla farming
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2021, 10:37:52 AM »
So, it appears as though the barn can be used offensively then to decrease other players farmers potential value by connecting fields. Just need to know the rules and a strategy will always present itself. -  :pink-meeple:

Online Meepledrone

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Re: Guerilla farming
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2021, 12:53:41 PM »
The CAR was last updated in May 2015. It is frozen in time since then.

For example, German Cathedrals or The Labyrinth are not included... Or any clarifications from 10/2015 or later, of couse.

In this case (scoring fields with barns) is almost okay, but you have to read pages 65 and 66, or you will be misled as @ny1050220 pointed out. ;D

Both pages contain a scoring summary covering all cases (cities, castles, pigs, pig-herd) except sieges, which were omitted. However, you may find the full picture in pages 212 and 214.

When creating WICA, we used all the info contained in the CAR and tried to polish some outstanding issues, like this one (or the interaction of the dragon and the school, that wasn't consistent across the document).

You can find a summary of the scoring of fields with and without barns here:

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Abbey_and_the_Mayor#Scoring_summary

Little Buildlings are not considered in these summary (or Markets of Leipzig since they apply only to fields at the end of the game and not barns).

And yes, barns can be used for good... or for bad.  >:D
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com


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