Why 16?

[Phoenix]

Hello all!) Some time ago i played in Carcassone using JCloisterZone 3.1.1(use classics+ river1/2). In two games something strange is happen: the peasant's score in my game was calculated wrong.

Please help me to find out, where i am wrong?
Here pictures: http://dropmefiles.com/HfLo5

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1652.0

[Chooselife]

Hi,

The farm goes below the city bridge and around the volcano lake.

[DLloyd09]

Exactly right, certainly a winding field, but there are four cities: The two right above the black "16", a third to the right of a yellow meeple on the road, near the bottom-right, and the fourth up above and across the road from the Italy-shaped city shared by all four players.

And of course the pig herd tile from the River II is also part of that field, meaning that each of those four cities is worth four points apiece instead of the usual three.

[MrNumbers]

Welcome to the forums, Phoenix! / Добро пожаловать на форум!
As Chooselife and DLloyd09 already have said, the tile with city bridge over the river is the case. The farm goes under it, so this tile has only two separate farms, but the tile with the volcano made it possible to connect them in one.

[SRBO]

But the normal rules say it doesnt go under it right?

[MrNumbers]

But the normal rules say it doesnt go under it right?

Farm does go under the bridge. Proof - Clarification of rules - Call with HiG - 14 01 2013

The river II
The tile: GFluss5
That is a tile with a great bridge over the river and joined the city segment to one city feature.
The question at BGG was: How many fields are at the tile? Is the city-bridge separating the fields or is only the river separating the fields?

The answer:
Only the river is separating the field. At that tile are two different features of fields.

[SRBO]

Ah strange, but thanks anyway.., i keep it as a houserule then haha

[Jéré]

Guys, you did not understand the question. From the image he provided, it is clear that he already knew there was 4 cities in the field, see red numbers to the right. (12 or 16 pts?). The question is whether the pig herd bonus should be applied or not. I don't have my laptop here with me so I can't check all the possible options you can set before you start a JCZ game. Perhaps there is a check box option to apply the pig herd bonus WITHOUT playing with Traders & Builders. (Can't remember right now...).  If no such option exists or was disabled for this specific game then it's a defect in JCZ.  Normally, if you don't play with T&B you just ignore the pig herd. Pig herd rule was introduced with T&B, not the River II.

[MrNumbers]

OK, you are right, Jéré, in part of what was the question about. But the pig herd wasn't introduced in T&B, it first appears exactly in River II! More than that, it is scored independently from T&B pig.
CAR, footnote 182:

You do receive the bonus from the pig-herd tile even if you don't have a pig on the farm. The pig herd is a neutral pig, so to speak.

And the original rule text:

The pig-herd tile earns the farmer who owns this farm an extra 1 point per city. If a player has the pig-herd and a pig (from the Traders and Builders expansion), he or she receives an additional 2 points per city.

So, in River II the pig herd is always scored. JCZ has an option to include/do not include pig herd from GQ11 expansion (ffff tile), because there are no official rules for that pig herd tile.

[Jéré]

OK, you are right, Jéré, in part of what was the question about. But the pig herd wasn't introduced in T&B, it first appears exactly in River II! More than that, it is scored independently from T&B pig.
CAR, footnote 182:

You do receive the bonus from the pig-herd tile even if you don't have a pig on the farm. The pig herd is a neutral pig, so to speak.

And the original rule text:
The pig-herd tile earns the farmer who owns this farm an extra 1 point per city. If a player has the pig-herd and a pig (from the Traders and Builders expansion), he or she receives an additional 2 points per city.

So, in River II the pig herd is always scored. JCZ has an option to include/do not include pig herd from GQ11 expansion (ffff tile), because there are no official rules for that pig herd tile.

I'll have to disagree with that and maintain what I previously said. The pig herd rule was introduced with T&B expansion and is very specific to this expansion, therefore should be ignored if you play without.

From CAR 7.3 p.64:
"If you don't possess the relevant expansions, the inn, volcano, and pig-herd tiles have no particular significance."

[MrNumbers]

The pig herd rule was introduced with T&B expansion and is very specific to this expansion

Please, show me, where in the rules of T&B you found a pig herd?

From CAR 7.3 p.64:
"If you don't possess the relevant expansions, the inn, volcano, and pig-herd tiles have no particular significance."

In that case, we need an official clarification here. There are two contradicting points in the River II rules (from my point of view).

[Jéré]

The pig herd rule was introduced with T&B expansion and is very specific to this expansion

Please, show me, where in the rules of T&B you found a pig herd?

From CAR 7.3 p.64:
"If you don't possess the relevant expansions, the inn, volcano, and pig-herd tiles have no particular significance."

In that case, we need an official clarification here. There are two contradicting points in the River II rules (from my point of view).

I think the Pig herd rule in T&B section has been omitted from the CAR (unintentionally I presume).

[Jéré]

From T&B section of the iOS version:



Also mentioned in the paper version of the "real" T&B I own.

If the intention in the CAR was to transfert this T&B rule and stamp it as River II, then there should be at least an explanation in the T&B section on why it should no longer be considered as T&B-specific rule.

[farin]

MrNumbers is right

pig herd in on cuverd river (part od River II)  - and according to complete annotated rules - it's always scored.

[Rosco]

Pig herd does not exist in traders and builders.  It does not require any part of any other expansion to function. Therefore if you don't play it you are omitting the rule as opposed to it being a house rule if you use it.