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Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: Meepledrone on November 17, 2021, 10:18:10 AM

Title: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 17, 2021, 10:18:10 AM
Today I exchanged some emails with Hobby World about the Solovei Razboynik and Vodyanoy tiles, and these are the clarifications I got from the designer of the tiles.

Following Kettlefish's tradition...

Question in BLUE

Answer in GREEN

Still open in RED

My own comments in  MAROON
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 17, 2021, 10:22:15 AM
[Q1] If you check the image attached, there the red player places a tile with a meeple that should be trapped at the same time by Solovei Razboynik (the meeple is on a road connected to the Solovei Razboynik's tree) and by Vodyanoy (the meeple is on an adjacent tile to Vodyanoy's lake). Which tile should trap the meeple? Is Vodyanoy stronger than Solovei Razboynik in case of conflict (both tiles could be placed together)?

[A1] Vodyanoy is definitely stronger than Solovei Razboynik, so Vodyanoy captures the meeple in the given example. Reminder: you may release your captured meeple during your next turn if you're not placing a new one.

Note: It is pretty pointless to place your meeple on a tile connected to the Solovei Razboynik tree as it will be trapped right away (in this case, by both Solovei and/or Vodyanoi). These tiles are primarily for removing your opponents' meeples, not for giving away your own. The important thing in this example was to establish which tile was the most powerful. ;)

Note 2: A meeple spends at least one turn captured by Solovei Razboynink or Vodyanoy as you can see in this clarification. It's owner cannot remove it until their following turn if no other action is performed in Step 2B-1

EDIT: Added second note.
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: DrMeeple on November 17, 2021, 10:44:21 AM
Suicide movement? emoji code2957]


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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 17, 2021, 11:08:08 AM
[Q2.1] Can Solovei Razboynik trap a builder placed on a road connected to the tree or is it just removed after the meeple supporting it is trapped by Solovei Razboynik?

[A2.1] If there is more than one player figure on a road where the Tree tile is attached, Solovei Razboynik usually captures one meeple (or special figure) that is closest to the Tree. However, if there are two equally distant meeples or special figures, both of them are captured.

Ooops! We always assumed that Solovei would capture all the meeples on the road no matter the distance.



[Q2.2] So, this capture would happen when placing the Solovei Razobynik tile or when extending the road with the Solovei tile (for example, when connecting other roads to it). It it correct?


[A2.2] Yes, we have these two cases:
1. After attaching the Solovei Razboynik tile, if there are any meeples (or special figures) on the road, the closest one (or several if at the same distance) is/are captured.
2. If at any time later in the game, there is another road attached to the Solovei Razboynik tile, look for the closest meeple(s)/special figures(s) again. One or several of them are captured again.

This means you remove meeples gradually on each tile placement extending the road with the Solovei Razboynik tile. If eventually completed, a player might score points for the road with the Solovei Razboynik tile after all. The player with the majority may need several meeples on the road to achive this.



[Q2.3] If you don't extend the road with the Solovei Razboynik tile but you manage to place a meeple on it, does this action trigger the meeple capture automatically?
Note 1: You may place the meeple on the road with a magic portal, a flying machine, a crop circle, or by deploying a meeple from the city of Carcassonne before scoring or by moving a wagon after scoring.
Note 2: If the capture is triggered, this might affect meeples closer to the Solovei Razboynik tile than the one just placed in some of these cases.

[A2.3] Correct, if there is a meeple appearing on a road, the Solovei Razboynik tile is triggered and you resolve the capture again.

By analogy, placing meeples on tiles adjacent to the Vodyanoy tile would trigger their capture as well.



[Q2.4] If you extend the road with the Solovei Razboynik tile by moving a ferry or you complete one of its ends with an abbey tile, do these actions trigger the meeple capture automatically?
Note: If the capture is triggered, this might affect meeples closer to the Solovei Razboynik tile than the ones just connected, if any.

[A2.4] Only a meeple within a newly attached part of the road would trigger the Solovei Razboynik tile.
So, if there is a meeple within the road extended by a ferry, then yes, the meeple capture is triggered.
This is not the case when completing a road with an abbey tile, so the meeple capture does not happen there.

This means that extending a road by moving a ferry will only trigger the Solovei Razboynik tile if the added road segment has at least one new meeple. In this case, the meeple capture would affect the resulting road. Since an abbey cannot add new tiles to the road with one or more meeples, it will not trigger the Solovei Razboynik tile.


EDIT: Added questions Q2.3 and Q2.4
EDIT 2: Added comment to Q2.4
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 17, 2021, 11:17:30 AM
[Q3.1] Can Vodyanoy trap special figures on adjacent tiles such as the builder and the pig, and the shepherd? We assume that Vodyanoy should not be able to capture barns since they are not placed on a particular tile.

[A3.1] Correct. After placing the Vodyanoy tile, it captures all of the figures on adjacent tiles, except for the neutral ones (such as the fairy). The tile designer said that you can refer to the rules for the dragon on this one.

The last sentence means that Vodyanoy will affect any player figures affected by the dragon, and will follow as well the same restrictions (i.e. areas not affected).



[Q3.2] Can any meeples captured by Solovei Razboynik or Vodyanoy be eaten by the dragon?

[A3.2] Yes, the dragon eats everyone.



[Q3.3] Can any meeples captured by Solovei Razboynik or Vodyanoy be captured by a tower?

[A3.3] Yes, a tower can capture meeples from the Solovei Razboynik tile or the Vodyanoy tile.


EDIT: Added sentence about dragon and additional comment.
EDIT 2: Added questions Q3.2 and Q3.3.
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: DrMeeple on November 17, 2021, 09:51:14 PM
[Q3] Can Vodyanoy trap special figures on adjacent tiles such as the builder and the pig, and the shepherd? We assume that Vodyanoy should not be able to capture barns since they are not placed on a particular tile.

[A3] Correct. After placing the Vodyanoy tile, it captures all of the figures on adjacent tiles, except for the neutral ones (such as the fairy).
Capture everything except neutral… got it


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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: DrMeeple on November 17, 2021, 09:51:40 PM
[Q2.1] Can Solovei Razboynik trap a builder placed on a road connected to the tree or is it just removed after the meeple supporting it is trapped by Solovei Razboynik?

[A2.1] If there is more than one player figure on a road where the Tree tile is attached, Solovei Razboynik usually captures one meeple (or special figure) that is closest to the Tree. However, if there are two equally distant meeples or special figures, both of them are captured.

Ooops! We always assumed that Solovei would capture all the meeples on the road no matter the distance.



[Q2.2] So, this capture would happen when placing the Solovei Razobynik tile or when extending the road with the Solovei tile (for example, when connecting other roads to it). It it correct?


[A2.2] Yes, we have these two cases:
1. After attaching the Solovei Razboynik tile, if there are any meeples (or special figures) on the road, the closest one (or several if at the same distance) is/are captured.
2. If at any time later in the game, there is another road attached to the Solovei Razboynik tile, look for the closest meeple(s)/special figures(s) again. One or several of them are captured again.

This means you remove meeples gradually on each tile placement extending the road with the Solovei Razboynik tile. If eventually completed, a player might score points for the road with the Solovei Razboynik tile after all. The player with the majority may need several meeples on the road to achive this.
Like snake game hahaha


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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 17, 2021, 10:01:47 PM
Hmm. Interesting. It change whole strategy  to catch all meeples on one tile. Hmmm

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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 17, 2021, 10:27:18 PM
But it confirms opportunity to chatch all builders by road for example.

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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 17, 2021, 10:54:50 PM
Still waiting to answer for question: What if meeple is already in Trap (Solovei Razboynik or Barber Surgeon) and placed Vodyanoy tile as adjacent tile to a Trap.
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: DrMeeple on November 18, 2021, 09:49:41 AM
Still waiting to answer for question: What if meeple is already in Trap (Solovei Razboynik or Barber Surgeon) and placed Vodyanoy tile as adjacent tile to a Trap.
I don’t understand the question…


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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 18, 2021, 10:23:47 AM
Still waiting to answer for question: What if meeple is already in Trap (Solovei Razboynik or Barber Surgeon) and placed Vodyanoy tile as adjacent tile to a Trap.
I don’t understand the question…


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1. There is openrpad with meeple
2. You place Solovey Razboynik
3. Meeple on road is moved to Solovey's tree.
4. In next turn is placed Vodyanoy

Is meeple from Solovey's tree moved to Vodyanoy?

Similar situation if you have meeple in bad.

Another question is if Vodyanoy affect also meeple on tower pieces. Technically not but by following Tower rule yes.

And also another question by Meepledrone aboutemoji code236] Dragon. What happend when dragon is placed to Vodyanoy or Solovey Razboynik tile.

What about plague?

What about Crop Circles - here can be solution easy. After moved meeple to Vodyanoy they lost their "position". So it was just rhetorical question.



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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 18, 2021, 12:02:43 PM
I have another question.
By rules of Solovei Razboinik: meeple is trapped when Solovei tree tile is connected to road with meeple, or this road is enlarged or another road with meeple is connected to road with Solovei tree.
Is meeple (or special figure) traped when I place it to existing road? For example placed Builder, or placed meeple by Flier / Magic Portal / Crop Circles etc without enlarge original road?
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 18, 2021, 12:17:50 PM
Still waiting to answer for question: What if meeple is already in Trap (Solovei Razboynik or Barber Surgeon) and placed Vodyanoy tile as adjacent tile to a Trap.

Vodyanoy will capture the meeples sent to any of those tiles.
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 18, 2021, 12:37:40 PM
Still waiting to answer for question: What if meeple is already in Trap (Solovei Razboynik or Barber Surgeon) and placed Vodyanoy tile as adjacent tile to a Trap.
I don’t understand the question…


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1. There is openrpad with meeple
2. You place Solovey Razboynik
3. Meeple on road is moved to Solovey's tree.
4. In next turn is placed Vodyanoy

Is meeple from Solovey's tree moved to Vodyanoy?

Vodyanoy is stronger and will trap any meeples trapped by Solovei Razboynik.

Similar situation if you have meeple in bad.

Vodyanoy affect bathhouses too for the sake of consistency.

This expansion hasn't been released in Russia so I didn't ask them about this case.

Another question is if Vodyanoy affect also meeple on tower pieces. Technically not but by following Tower rule yes.

Vodyanoy will affect any meeple (or special figure) placed on an adjacent tile, no matter where it is placed (including a tower or a bridge). Meeples in a castle or barns will not be affected. Meeples in special areas will not affected either (city of Carcassonne, City of Leipzig, Wheel of Fortune) for the sake of consistency. I didn't include a note from Hobby World above regarding Vodyanoy:
Quote
The tile designer says that you can refer to the rules for the dragons on this one.

So anything affected by the dragon, would be captured by Vodyanoy.

And also another question by Meepledrone aboutemoji code236] Dragon. What happend when dragon is placed to Vodyanoy or Solovey Razboynik tile.

Dragon logic... Yummy lunch! Meeples and special figures are removed.

What about plague?

We apply the dragon logic to The Plague as usual. This is a question for Christwart Conrand, the author of The Plague, but he knows the base game and very little about other expansions... So, Feast for Fleas! Meeples and special figures are removed.

What about Crop Circles - here can be solution easy. After moved meeple to Vodyanoy they lost their "position". So it was just rhetorical question.


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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 18, 2021, 12:41:20 PM
I have another question.
By rules of Solovei Razboinik: meeple is trapped when Solovei tree tile is connected to road with meeple, or this road is enlarged or another road with meeple is connected to road with Solovei tree.
Is meeple (or special figure) traped when I place it to existing road? For example placed Builder, or placed meeple by Flier / Magic Portal / Crop Circles etc without enlarge original road?

This is one of the question I sent yesterday and didn't answer yet.

Another question I sent is what happens if you extend the road by moving a ferry or when you close a road end with an Abbey tile.

Still waiting for an answer.
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 18, 2021, 02:47:32 PM


I have another question.
By rules of Solovei Razboinik: meeple is trapped when Solovei tree tile is connected to road with meeple, or this road is enlarged or another road with meeple is connected to road with Solovei tree.
Is meeple (or special figure) traped when I place it to existing road? For example placed Builder, or placed meeple by Flier / Magic Portal / Crop Circles etc without enlarge original road?

This is one of the question I sent yesterday and didn't answer yet.

Another question I sent is what happens if you extend the road by moving a ferry or when you close a road end with an Abbey tile.

Still waiting for an answer.

Hmm I will suggest when moved ferry trigger join road and placement of Abbey not enlarge road.

Anyway Solovei rules are talking about follower (in English translation) so Builder is not affected ? ( In case that same color meeple still stay on road)

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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 18, 2021, 02:51:51 PM


I have another question.
By rules of Solovei Razboinik: meeple is trapped when Solovei tree tile is connected to road with meeple, or this road is enlarged or another road with meeple is connected to road with Solovei tree.
Is meeple (or special figure) traped when I place it to existing road? For example placed Builder, or placed meeple by Flier / Magic Portal / Crop Circles etc without enlarge original road?

This is one of the question I sent yesterday and didn't answer yet.

Another question I sent is what happens if you extend the road by moving a ferry or when you close a road end with an Abbey tile.

Still waiting for an answer.

Hmm I will suggest when moved ferry trigger join road and placement of Abbey not enlarge road.

Anyway Solovei rules are talking about follower (in English translation) so Builder is not affected ? ( In case that same color meeple still stay on road)

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I remember some discussions about the Russian rules because they used figure intead of follower...  ???
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: totor66 on November 18, 2021, 11:09:25 PM
Those tiles don't exist ... those tiles don't exist ...
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 18, 2021, 11:34:53 PM
The CarcF Advent Calendar 2018 included great images provided by Hobby World you could use to print a set of Russian Promo tiles for yourself (in case of need).  ;D
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: totor66 on November 19, 2021, 12:48:43 AM
That's my only missing for CI but I never wanted them, round corners + different back made it like I would need a complete russian set of CI.

So I try to think they are porxada like :)
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 24, 2021, 12:17:29 PM
Today I got the other answers I was expecting from Hobby World. I included them in previous posts for easier access:

* Activation of the Solovei Razboynik tile when placing meeples, moving a ferry or placing an abbey tile (see Q2.3 and Q2.4):

https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5545.msg80710#msg80710 (https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5545.msg80710#msg80710)

* Removing captured meeples with the dragon or a tower (see Q3.2 and Q3.3):

https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5545.msg80711#msg80711  (https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=5545.msg80711#msg80711)

Hope you like them.
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 24, 2021, 01:23:47 PM
Cool. Thanks you. +1 merit
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 24, 2021, 01:52:36 PM
Ooooh! Thanks!  ;D
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: corinthiens13 on November 24, 2021, 01:58:44 PM
Merit from me too  :yellow-meeple:

But... This makes those tiles way too difficult to manage!

I can't imagine myself explaining to other players that yes, you placed that tile so a meeple is removed, then no, you placed a tile on a road, then connected it to solovey by moving a ferry, but Solovei is not activated, then yes, I placed a tile with meeple on a road, moved a ferry to connect it to Solovei, so it is activated and I remove your last meeple on the road before scoring it  >:D

This is way too complicated to apply in game  :(
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 24, 2021, 11:37:13 PM
Merit from me too  :yellow-meeple:

But... This makes those tiles way too difficult to manage!

I can't imagine myself explaining to other players that yes, you placed that tile so a meeple is removed, then no, you placed a tile on a road, then connected it to solovey by moving a ferry, but Solovei is not activated, then yes, I placed a tile with meeple on a road, moved a ferry to connect it to Solovei, so it is activated and I remove your last meeple on the road before scoring it  >:D

This is way too complicated to apply in game  :(
Well. It is not so complicated as it seems.
Look it from other point of view. Not looking from Solovei but from other read.
1. Placed tile with road. Does this road contains Solovei? Trap nearest meeple/s on this road.
2. Join two existing road by ferry? Here are two situations when player can do this:
a) when expanded road contains Solovei and ferry then it's easy because 1. Is apply
b) when expanded road doesn't contains Solovei and after move ferry Solovei connected to road then is Solovei activated and continue in 1.

All other scenarious apply 2. Wagon move, placed special meeple (builder), moved meeple from City of Carcassonne of Leipzig market (this can be nice strategy to remove opponents meeple from road when is closer to Solovei tile - just saying)

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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: DrMeeple on November 24, 2021, 11:42:38 PM
+1000000 merit from me emoji code1]


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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: corinthiens13 on November 24, 2021, 11:49:03 PM
Still seems complicated... And what if two meeples are on the same tile? Which one is trapped? Both?
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: DrMeeple on November 24, 2021, 11:52:16 PM
Still seems complicated... And what if two meeples are on the same tile? Which one is trapped? Both?
You will find the answer on meepledrone updates from hobby world….


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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 25, 2021, 01:27:37 AM
+1000000 merit from me emoji code1]
I want to see how you will manage this, when +1 merit can be taken only once per hour :D
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: DrMeeple on November 25, 2021, 04:56:09 AM
+1000000 merit from me emoji code1]
I want to see how you will manage this, when +1 merit can be taken only once per hour :D
Hahahaha hacking the system


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Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Bumsakalaka on November 25, 2021, 06:35:57 AM
+1000000 merit from me emoji code1]
I want to see how you will manage this, when +1 merit can be taken only once per hour :D
Hahahaha hacking the system


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Nice, then create access for Meepledrone to update filesystem to allow updates on forum :D
Title: Re: Clarification of rules (Russian Promos) - with Hobby World - 17 11 2021
Post by: Meepledrone on November 25, 2021, 01:12:54 PM
Thank you guys! ;D ;D ;D

I hope tomorrow I have some spare time to update the the Russian Promos page on WICA.

This week is being crazy!