Author Topic: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?  (Read 6820 times)

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2020, 08:52:44 PM »
Maybe another house rule that could be added to the list is the "draw a tile at the end of your turn", as it saves a lot of time :

At the end of your turn:
  • Once you performed every of your turn's actions, including double and triple turn (message + builder), draw a tile (+ 1 for each fortune teller) and don't show it to other players
At the beginning of your turn:
  • Reveal your tile (if you do not have one because the stack was empty at the end of your last turn, the game is over)
  • If the tile contains a wheel of fortune, peasant revolt, hill or dragon icon, perform the corresponding action
  • Play the tile or keep it for the next turn (don't discard it) and use one of your reserve tiles (halflings, German castles, abbey)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 10:27:18 PM by corinthiens13 »

Offline Windekind

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2020, 09:46:12 PM »
Tower prisonner ransom:
Paying 3 points for a prisonner buyback may bee insignificant in games with 600 points per player.
House rule: Pay 6 points to buy a meeple back instead of 3.

It seems to be true that in mega carcassonne the repayment of the prisoners is not much. But if you wanted to pay back your trapped early in the game, 6 points is a lot. Perhaps an interesting house rule would be that the payback would depend on how many times you passed the '50 points' score. We start with 3 points like the basic rules and if you pass 50 points each time, 1 extra point will be added. For example, someone who has 155 points would then have to pay 6 points for getting the prisoner back.

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2020, 10:41:59 PM »
if you wanted to pay back your trapped early in the game, 6 points is a lot.
Why is it a lot at the beginning of the game and not at the end?

It doesn't matter when you earned or lost points, only the final scoring counts.

So wether you lost 6 points at the beginning, middle or end of the game, it's still gonna be 6 points lost for final scoring.

It could even be the contrary:
  • Buying back a meeple at the beginning of the game allows you to use it for 100 following turns, 6 points isn't a lot for that
  • Buying back a meeple at the end of the game allows you to use it only for the few turns left, 6 points may be a lot for that

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2020, 11:59:30 PM »
if you wanted to pay back your trapped early in the game, 6 points is a lot.
Why is it a lot at the beginning of the game and not at the end?

It doesn't matter when you earned or lost points, only the final scoring counts.

So wether you lost 6 points at the beginning, middle or end of the game, it's still gonna be 6 points lost for final scoring.

It could even be the contrary:
  • Buying back a meeple at the beginning of the game allows you to use it for 100 following turns, 6 points isn't a lot for that
  • Buying back a meeple at the end of the game allows you to use it only for the few turns left, 6 points may be a lot for that

I agree with corinthiens13 on this one. Anyhow, if you really would need to buy back a meeple already before you reach 6 points on the scoring track, then Carcassonne might not be the right game for you  >:D

Offline Decar

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2020, 01:53:04 AM »
I follow KJW's advice.

Some people like to play with all the expansions, and it takes a long time and is very complex.
Carcassonne is nice with one, maybe two expansions, where the game is still manageable, and you can see the interesting changes that each expansion brings to the base game.

Good luck getting them all to work together!

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2020, 02:35:14 AM »
I can recomend this "expansion"
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/68071/carcassonne-expansion-selector-cards

You can choose, how name featuers you want to play - 3-5-8 depends of count of players and age of players :D
Then choose randomly selected count of cards.
Then you play random selection of expansion and every game will be different and fun. Because every time you have to change different strategy.

Problem is, that last update is 2015 so it not contains last large and mini expansions and it's only in C1 - which is actualy not problem.
Check JCloisterZone Add-ons with fan expansions and also some Slovak sci/fi projects in English https://www.scifi.sk/en/

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2020, 03:25:31 AM »
I can recomend this "expansion"
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/68071/carcassonne-expansion-selector-cards

You can choose, how name featuers you want to play - 3-5-8 depends of count of players and age of players :D
Then choose randomly selected count of cards.
Then you play random selection of expansion and every game will be different and fun. Because every time you have to change different strategy.

Problem is, that last update is 2015 so it not contains last large and mini expansions and it's only in C1 - which is actualy not problem.

The idea is awesome. I especially love the conciseness of the cards so they serve as a handy cheat sheet too. They would need an update and some corrections too... Check the German castle card, for example.  ;)

I was looking at this deck and some other cheat sheet versions for inspiration... You know  ;D
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2020, 04:59:51 AM »
I can recomend this "expansion"
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/68071/carcassonne-expansion-selector-cards

You can choose, how name featuers you want to play - 3-5-8 depends of count of players and age of players :D
Then choose randomly selected count of cards.
Then you play random selection of expansion and every game will be different and fun. Because every time you have to change different strategy.

Problem is, that last update is 2015 so it not contains last large and mini expansions and it's only in C1 - which is actualy not problem.

The idea is awesome. I especially love the conciseness of the cards so they serve as a handy cheat sheet too. They would need an update and some corrections too... Check the German castle card, for example.  ;)

I was looking at this deck and some other cheat sheet versions for inspiration... You know  ;D

I was looking for print it together with In order of King cards, but currently waiting for answer of original autor of selection cards if he will update them, or it will be possible to get them all and update them with C2 version, missing expansions and also corrections as you wrote.

We are plaing "by" this at home, but it's like everybody will choose one or two of feature which wants to play and which not, and then we have unique (plus minus) selection of expansions (features and meeple types) every game.

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2020, 12:46:15 AM »
Hi,

And now the peasant's revolts do also really become inconsistent with a megacarcassonne, paying to protect meeples is really not worth the risk of having a revolt, as they are mixed with so many other tiles.

I suggest this house rule:
  • Pay only one point when protecting the meeple you did just place
  • Protect a meeple placed during a previous turn for free (except that you do this instead of placing a meeple)

Have a nice day  ;)

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2020, 03:34:07 AM »
Hi,

And now the peasant's revolts do also really become inconsistent with a megacarcassonne, paying to protect meeples is really not worth the risk of having a revolt, as they are mixed with so many other tiles.

I suggest this house rule:
  • Pay only one point when protecting the meeple you did just place
  • Protect a meeple placed during a previous turn for free (except that you do this instead of placing a meeple)

Have a nice day  ;)
I was also thinking on this variant but I was thinking about variant with 2 points (in turn placed meeple) / 0 points (for previous placed meeple)

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2020, 03:55:31 AM »
Hi,

And now the peasant's revolts do also really become inconsistent with a megacarcassonne, paying to protect meeples is really not worth the risk of having a revolt, as they are mixed with so many other tiles.

I suggest this house rule:
  • Pay only one point when protecting the meeple you did just place
  • Protect a meeple placed during a previous turn for free (except that you do this instead of placing a meeple)

Have a nice day  ;)
I was also thinking on this variant but I was thinking about variant with 2 points (in turn placed meeple) / 0 points (for previous placed meeple)

It depends on the number of tiles. But above 300 tiles, I think even two points isn't worth it. And above 450 tiles, even one point isn't really worth it, but making it free would be a problem, as every meeple placed'd be protected!

So I'd say:
  • Pay only 2 point (150-300 tiles) or 1 point (300+ tiles) when protecting the meeple you did just place
  • Protect a meeple placed during a previous turn for free (except that you do this instead of placing a meeple)

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2020, 09:52:56 AM »
IWell here is my logic thinking?

If you play standard game + Peasant Revolts:
# of tiles: 72+12
# of meeples: 7 / per player
In standard game player get max 120-150 points per player (2-3 players)
Chance to get revolt tile: 14,2% - every 7th turn

If you play megacarcassonne
# of files: 200-300
# of meeples: plus minus 13 (8 meeples, 1 big meeple, 1 mayor, 1 abbot, 1 ring master, 1 phantom)
Player get arround 400-600 points depends on count of player (2-3 players)
Change to get revolt tile: (for example in 250 tiles) is 5% - it means every 20th turn

You play with max 5 meeples more than standard game, but peasant revold comes 3 times less than in standard game.
Plus you are plaing with more meeples, but a lot of them are used in Features which are not affected with Peasant Revolt like:
Acrobats, Leipzig, Count, Barber Surgeons, Tower (top of tower or catched by other player) this also decrease change that Peasant revolt will affect you as player.

So my point is, that it not needs to change payment for protection. It yust need to change playing strategy, like when plaing Barger Surgeons (always score with other player or with phantom in your turn) and not forget to count placed Peasant tiles and their types ;-)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 09:58:39 AM by Bumsakalaka »

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2020, 01:18:11 PM »
Just one comment!

The setup of The Peasant Revolts instruct you to pick 9 at random out the 12 tiles provided. With the base game then you have 72 + 9 tiles. This means 11,1% probability to get a peasant revolt tile - every 9th turn.

If x is the number of Peasant Revolt tiles needed and Total is the number of other tiles in your game, Let's see how many Peasant Revolt tiles you would need to maintain the proportion given for the base game:

x / ( x + Total ) = 9 / ( 9 + 72 ) --> 81 * x = 9 *  ( x + Total ) --> 9 * x = x + Total --> 8 x = Total --> x = Total / 8

If Total = 200 tiles, then you would need 200 / 8 = 25 Peasant Revolt tiles, approximately 2 copies

If Total = 300 tiles, then you would need 300 / 8 = 38 Peasant Revolt tiles, approximately 3 copies

But well, you can include as many tiles as you consider not to dilute the effect.

I was thinking about a variant for a Mega Carcacassone game. You shuffle the desired number of Peasant Revolt tiles with the rest of the tiles.

When you draw a Peasant Revolt tile, you roll a d6 die and decide what feature is affected, no matter the symbol on the tile. The list of outcomes can be as follows:

1. Roads
2. Cities
3. Monastic buildings (Monastery, Abbey, Shrine, German monastery, Dutch & Belgian monastery, Japanese building, Darmstadt church)
4. Gardens
5. German castles / German cathedrals
6. Exp. 8 castles  / Baba Yaga's hut / Fortune teller tent

If you are not playing with a particular feature, you just roll the die again, or you could assign cities (first option) or roads (second option) to two numbers...

Special case: You will have to roll again if the Peasant Revolt tile has the same feature resulting of your roll.

Why the special case? If you check the Peasant Revolt tiles, you'll see a Peasant Revolt tile affecting roads does not contain any road segments and likewise for cities and monasteries. This prevents players from using a Peasant Revolt tile to vacate a feature and then take control of it.

If playing the base game only + Abbot, you could use the Flier die and arrange features as follow:
1. Roads
2. Cities
3. Monastery / Gardens

Just a thought!  ;)

Offline Bumsakalaka

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2020, 04:20:18 AM »
@Meepledrone followed nice logic thread, that in MegaCarcassonne has to be same ratio of Peasant Revolt tiles compared to total count of tiles like in Standard Game.
Here is the problem. If you are looking to same to others expansions, like Mage & Witch, Flier, Inns & Cathedrals, then you have to increase also copies of those expansion to get similar ratio to standard game, and then you are in unfinished circle with "Limit" value (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limit_(mathematics)).

We had game last sunday with 250 tiles including Toll Keepers. At end of game, my tollkeeper token was still in my supply, because I didn't used it. There was no suitable place in my turn to place and earn enought points copared to place other meeple to some features.

MegaCarcassonne brings some inconsistency of game and some mini expansion like mentioned toll keepers.
Anyway I guest Toll Keepers is special case, because small vilage is not often on expansion tiles ;-(

Meybe it will be good to include at least one village to all expansion. What do you think (but this is for another topic)

Offline corinthiens13

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Re: Expansions becoming inconsistent during megacarcassonne games?
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2020, 05:24:00 AM »
@Meepledrone followed nice logic thread, that in MegaCarcassonne has to be same ratio of Peasant Revolt tiles compared to total count of tiles like in Standard Game.
Here is the problem. If you are looking to same to others expansions, like Mage & Witch, Flier, Inns & Cathedrals, then you have to increase also copies of those expansion to get similar ratio to standard game, and then you are in unfinished circle with "Limit" value (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limit_(mathematics)).

Exactly, that's why I didn't buy any copies of expansion, because that's an endless circle and still not making it possible to get to a balanced game (except German Castles I bought twice, but that's to have one per player, not to balance the game). Same mechanic with wheel of fortune, and many other expansions.

If Total = 200 tiles, then you would need 200 / 8 = 25 Peasant Revolt tiles, approximately 2 copies

If Total = 300 tiles, then you would need 300 / 8 = 38 Peasant Revolt tiles, approximately 3 copies

I followed that logic when thinking about my house rule, but my option was then to divide the number of points needed to protect a meeple by the same ratio. That'd make, rounding up the numbers:
From a ratio of 1.5 to 3: Divide the points by 2, that's from 150 tiles (1.5*12*8 ) to 300 (3*12*8 ), and so:
Pay only 2 points when protecting the meeple you did just place, and 1 point for a meeple placed during a previous turn
From a ratio above 3: Divide the points by 3, that's from 300 tiles (3*12*8 ), and so:
Pay only 1 point when protecting the meeple you did just place, and protect a meeple placed during a previous turn for free

And so my house rule'd be:
  • Pay only 2 point (150-300 tiles) or 1 point (300+ tiles) when protecting the meeple you did just place
  • Protect a meeple placed during a previous turn for 1 point (150 - 300 tiles) or for free (300+ tiles)

Special case: You will have to roll again if the Peasant Revolt tile has the same feature resulting of your roll.

Why the special case? If you check the Peasant Revolt tiles, you'll see a Peasant Revolt tile affecting roads does not contain any road segments and likewise for cities and monasteries. This prevents players from using a Peasant Revolt tile to vacate a feature and then take control of it.

The dice is a good idea. But I think your special case leads to the opposite result. If your
Quote
Peasant Revolt tile has the same feature resulting of your roll
Then you precisely cannot do the following:
Quote
using a Peasant Revolt tile to vacate a feature and then take control of it
Since the feature of the dice's result wouldn't be present on the tile.
So I do not see why we'd want to roll the dice again in that case?


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